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    • I was going to suggest cooperating with her over the letter copies so as to look good in court, but on further consideration BazzaS & SuperVillain are right.   However, to make it easy for the judge and to show her up in court I would tweak the letter and add that this is the third time you've asked so that the expert can be "jointly instructed" and you are anxious to move things on as the two of you are already beyond the court's deadline.    You are writing to her but in a certain sense you're writing "to" the judge and what you are writing needs to be concise and follow the court's instructions - unlike her gibberish.  
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dbcc33

Multiple PCNs for the same offence not commited by me! [ resurface workers moved my car!!]

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Wonder if anyone can help alleviate the burden of these series of PCNs....

 

I left my car legally parked on the road for approx. 1-month in March during which time my father was critically ill in hospital.

When I came back to find my car to my horror it was not where I left it.

 

Luckily I spotted it 50-100 yards down the road, half parked in a permit holders only zone and half parked outside it, with 10+ PCNs attached!

Luckily a good Samaritan who lived on the street had written a note stating "your car was moved here by a lorry and lifter by the people doing the road works".

 

I spent the next hr knocking on every house to find this neighbour and finally did find her when she explained how it was unbelievable how far the council contractors moved my car only to dump it with the bonnet poking into a controlled bay and then proceed to ticket it every single day since!

This absolutely beggars belief that they are allowed to do this!

 

Now I fully appreciate that sometime during my car being parked there that maybe the council put up signs and because I had not gone back I had not noticed so I get that they are allowed to move the car, but on what planet are they allowed to move it into a permit holders only bay a very long way away from where I left it?! this is tantamount to theft!

 

Needless to say it's not what I need with my dad only just out of hospital, and I intend to appeal but of course my 14 day period has long passed and do I really need to lodge my appeal 10 times?! This seems absolutely ridiculous that they can cause this and then I have so much inconvenience to resolve it.

 

Is there anyway round this by writing to them listing all the PCNs and asking to cancel them all in one go seeing as I was not responsible and I have several witnesses who will vouch for the contractors moving my car?

 

Can I sue the contractors for distress?

Any help would be much appreciated.

Edited by dx100uk
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Who issued the tickets please?

 

Council?

 

If it was council which one.


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Appeal to one ticket listing all the others and see what happens.

Most likely they'll reject the appeal so you'll be going to the adjudicator.

 

When they reject the first ticket, appeal all the others one by one so they can't start recovery.

Make a freedom of information request to find out when and where and possibly what contractor did the work (they will claim data protection when they refuse to tell you which contractor moved your car).

 

Personally I would call action fraud and report the council for making money out of you.

It's not fraud per se, but it could be interpreted as such as they could have moved the car to a legal spot.

The action fraud serial number will help you getting heard.

 

Letter to councillors and local MP, local press, council mayor etc will make a bit of noise.

If you stay quite and try to follow their procedure you will definitely end up hitting a wall of stupidity and arrogance.

Attack them from every angle.

 

Even a surprise visit to the council making some noise might get some attention.

Once they called a manager who in turn called his boss when i was helping an old friend getting a council house which he got the very same day, so you never know.

 

Worse case scenario they'll escort you outside, as long as you don't make threats and don't swear, raising your voice is not a crime.

Good luck, you'll need it when dealing with these self proclaimed humans.

Edited by dx100uk
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Personally I would call action fraudicon and report the council for making money out of you.

 

Please dont give bad advice like that. The Part of the council that issues tickets, is different from those that do the roadworks. The former wouldnt know what the latter did. All they would see is the vehicle parked in contravention of stated rules, and would ticket them.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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Please dont give bad advice like that. The Part of the council that issues tickets, is different from those that do the roadworks. The former wouldnt know what the latter did. All they would see is the vehicle parked in contravention of stated rules, and would ticket them.

 

Who ordered the roadwork? The council

Who's making a profit at the op expenses? The council

If they don't know their bottom from their elbows it's not anyone's problem but theirs.

What they care about is making money, so if they reject the appeal i would think they're committing fraud as they've deliberately making a profit with their actions.

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And you'd be wrong.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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And you'd be wrong.

I would let action fraud decide, in the mean time a reference number could make the council aware that they need to address the problem.

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Don't waste any time calling Action Fraud. Ridiculous suggestion.

 

The Council has powers to move vehicle where they need access for roadworks and the like - it's all legal and above board.

 

They will have records and photos of which vehicles were moved, where and when. I would expect under these circumstances that you will successfully get all the PCNs cancelled.

 

Write a clear, reasonable letter to the Council, explaining what happened on the day. Don't use words like fraud or profit, or approach them as if they are your mortal enemy - just explain the events, and that the council put your car there without your knowledge. The fact that you had so many PCNs and the council did not tow the car to the pound indicates they knew the situation anyway, but they won't consider cancelling and PCNs unless you appeal.

  • Haha 1

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Thanks for all your responses.

 

I appreciate there is a procedure to follow and i will do that - it was Harrow Council - they are pretty inept and the 'wall of stupidity and arrogance' is frequently encountered. I appreciate the two teams do not communicate and can see how it happened. However it does seem ridiculous that they can do this and not even bother to let you know. They have my contact details. Also this is more than just getting the PCNs cancelled. This is the last thing I have time to do whilst my father has just come out of hospital after being in ITU for 3 months! So I will do it but why should i even have to and if i have to why should i do it 10 times - there must be an easy way to appeal all of them in one go? if there isnt the council will have to compensate me for my time. i cant be expected to prioritise this over my ill father. i also have the bigger issue in that the council contractors dented my car when moving it so i definitely want to track them down - may they are the ones that need to pay given they were the ones that caused the issue ie as you say the warden was only doing his job.

however if i have to go to the adjudicator etc etc, at what point to the council pay me for my time? i think my approach will be one simple letter to get them all cancelled and if that doesnt work then make a lot of noise with media, mps etc. ie give them one chance to put things right but i dont have time nor inclination to encounter multiple walls of stupidity at a difficult time.

I also dont think this is the first time it has happened as it happened before that i thought my car was parked somewhere it wasnt and then was ticketed but assumed it was my fault and i must have forgotten - i am just lucky that someone noticed this time. so i do think i will go to FOI to work out how many times they've moved my car as they may have made money off me in the past.

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deal with compensation once you have dealt with the immediate issue. FOI wont be relevant as it pertains to info thats in the public interest.

 

Stay away from all the bunkem in your final paragraph and follow the good advice in jambersons post.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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i also have the bigger issue in that the council contractors dented my car when moving it so i definitely want to track them down - may they are the ones that need to pay given they were the ones that caused the issue ie as you say the warden was only doing his job.

 

As the contractors were working for the council I'd think the council are responsible for any damage the contractors caused. I wouldn't bother trying to find the contractors or claiming against them. Just hold the council liable for the actions of their contractor. Claims like this need evidence of course. When they remove vehicles round my way for parking they always photograph its condition in case they get claims for this sort of damage, don't know if the contractors photograph when they move vehicles for road maintenance though.

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You are not liable for the infringements because the contractors dumped you car there, that has been settled before but the problem is that Harrow will take for ever to think about thsi and in the meanwhile the outsoirced peopel will continue to try and collect their money. there will be a schedule of works and even a list of vehicles lifted and it is woth noting that they are not allowed to put the car where it is likely to infringe parking regs so they DO have something to answer to but better to get the council to knock it on the head rather than having to pay up and thern sue the same people to recover your losses

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Yep, I agree it's likely they will have photos before and after the move - exactly for this reason, to protect themselves from false allegations of damage. By your own account, you didn't go back to the car for a month, so I don't see how you could know who made the dent, or when it occurred. But anyway, ask for the photos, assuming they have some, and you will see.

 

Your last post does concern me somewhat. They won't just write out speculatively, using your contact details, in adviance of you raising the matter. They are obliged to serve notices to the person named by DVLA as the vehicle's keeper, using their contact details. And don't expect any compensation for your time - it won't happen. If you threaten to go to the media, they will not care in the slightest. As for FOI requests - a waste of everyone's time and money.

 

You just have to accept what has happened - that's life. Your car was in the way, they moved it and now you have to do something. The car was left in contravention of the regulations, as I understand it, so the PCNS are correctly issued in that sense. To get them cancelled you will need to make the Council aware of the circumstances. All you need to do is write one letter, mention all the PCNs, and by not entering into a war with them, just politely explain what happened.

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anyone moving a vehicle cant leave it wher it isnt alloed to be so they will be in the wrong for that so make your appeal stating that you are not liable for the reason of the vehicle being lifted and left there whcih means the contractors are liable

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For heaven's sake! Of course the contractors are not liable.

 

In decrmininalised parking, the owner of the vehicle is liable, regardless of who put the vehicle there. That's why a Notice to Owner is issued, not a Notice to Driver (let alone, a Notice to Contractor!).

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For heaven's sake! Of course the contractors are not liable.

 

In decrmininalised parking, the owner of the vehicle is liable, regardless of who put the vehicle there. That's why a Notice to Owner is issued, not a Notice to Driver (let alone, a Notice to Contractor!).

 

Proof or it doesn't exist..

 

All DPE means is that individuals avoid being criminalized for some minor parking or driving offence, don't see where liability comes into DPE?


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Because DPE establishes liability on the owner of the vehicle. It's written into the legislation. The owner is liable, not the person who parked it.

 

This is basic stuff. You should know this if you are offering advice to people.

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I'm writing a letter and hope that will be the end of it - it is not obvious where to write to cover multiple PCNs. i will also appeal one online and list the rest but i wont be repeating myself 10 times.

I understand the part that whoever ticketed was just doing their job as they dont know how the car got there but what i cant believe in a 21st century democracy is people saying council contractors are allowed to move my car into a zone where it is not allowed to be and not be held responsible for their actions? what if they moved my car somewhere worse like 4 roads away and it didnt just take me half an hour to find but several days and i reported it stolen? what if they moved it somewhere else and then it got towed? what if they moved it into an ambulance spot outside a hospital? There has got to be some legislation that puts responsiblity on WHERE the contractrator moves the car surely? I am still shocked that they moved it so far away from where it was originally - the neighbours that witnessed it said it was really ridiculous.....apparently they moved all the other cars only a little bit and left my car there as apparently it wasnt blocking anything but then when they started the works they realised they needed more space and by then there was no free spaces to move my car which is why they moved mine much further than anyone elses and the only space available was in the controlled zone! the neighbours were horrified which is why one left a note on my car. what could i ahve done if this good samaritan hadnt done this? what proof would i have about anything other than by magic my car had been moved? I dont really know about what DPE means etc but the common sense approach is how can one be liable for something they had no hand in doing just because they own the vehicle? thats like saying if someone steals my car and commits an offence, i am liable for it just because i own it. if that really is the case this is bureaucracy gone mad and no wonder the UK economy is going downhill because all we do is push paper while the rest of the world just gets on with it!

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I'm not sure about legislation, but there are guidelines on where they relocate a vehicle. Obviously they would not leave it in an ambulance space (and didn't), and I expect they notify the police when they relocate a vehicle, as they do when they tow one, in case you did report it stolen. Anyway, you can check all this with the council if you like - it's no secret. You can just ask them. In your case, you seem to have answered your own question:

 

"they realised they needed more space and by then there was no free spaces to move my car which is why they moved mine much further than anyone elses and the only space available was in the controlled zone".

 

There you go - that's the way it works. That's what they do. I would say again, that if you want your appeal to succeed you should avoid the kind of stuff you are posting on here about democracy, bureaucracy gone mad, the UK economy etc. It really won't help. Effective appeal letters don't contain words like ridiculous, magic or horrified. I would strongly advise you write a short, courteous letter explaining the situation and asking them to cancel the PCNs. It will likely succeed.

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