DCBL business CCJ sole trader - Data stored on a "controlled" computer

[Eartha]

But if you wish to use it instead of the official N245...its will cost you £100 without hearing....better use the proper form...its cheaper.

 

It costs £50. Plus the OP has already said they paid £50. Google EX50 for form fees. Scroll down to general applications:

 

Application to vary (amend/change) a judgment (or order), suspenden forcement or suspend a warrant of possession or stay a High Court Writ. £50

[AndyOrch]

Correct N245 fee...£50

[Eartha]

Correct N245

 

Or you can use the general application form N244, still costs £50.

[AndyOrch]

Or you can use the general application form N244, still costs £50.

 

You could but why ?...the OP wants a payment arrangement and to stay the Warrant...which the N245 is perfectly designed to do with all the little nice boxes printed and a I &E section for the proposed payment plan.

 

They could contact the court and state they issued the n244 in error after receiving duff info from a random Bailiff Forum...is it okay to use my payment already paid against my new N245 application....yes?

[Eartha]

You could but why ?...the OP wants a payment arrangement and to stay the Warrant...which the N245 is perfectly designed to do with all the little nice boxes printed and a I &E section for the proposed payment plan.

 

They could contact the court and state they issued the n244 in error after receiving duff info from a random Bailiff Forum...is it okay to use my payment already paid against my new N245 application....yes?

 

The N244 can be used to stay and vary a judgement - even when you click on the link it takes you to the .gov page which says the same. The application has been made, nothing has been done in error, the I&E can be completed when needed. At the moment the OP is being told to spend another £50 to submit an N245 which isn't needed. There is no way an goverment department is going to kindly write out an N245 for anyone for free. I don't really see why you want to argue about it.

[AndyOrch]

Not asking the court to fill it in... the OP can complete it properly as should have in the first place.... submit it and state the fee has already been paid in error with the incorrect form...and Im not arguing...you are Syd.

[AndyOrch]

Thread temp closed to stop further hijacking.

 

Please contact the Site Team when you require the thread reopened ‎SpilshySploshy

 

Regards

 

Andy

[AndyOrch]

Application to vary Judgment

 

If the defendant is unable to make the payments ordered by the judgment they can submit an

application to ‘vary’. If a warrant has been issued, they can also apply to suspend the warrant.

The defendant will complete form N245 ‘Application for suspension of a warrant and/or

variation of an order’, provide details of their income and expenditure and include an offer of

payment. The defendant will need to pay a fee to do this unless they qualify for fee remission.

A copy of the application will be forwarded to you. If you accept the defendant’s offer you do

not need to respond. If you do not accept the defendant’s offer you should write to the court

which sent you the copy of the application, explaining why you do not accept the offer and

what instalments (if any) you would be willing to accept (if your response is not received within

16 days then the court will automatically grant the defendant’s request).

The court will send both you and the defendant a ‘Variation Order’ explaining how the

defendant should pay. The Variation Order does not change the amount owed or the date that

the judgment was registered. If you objected to the defendant’s application and the Variation

Order was determined (i.e. the instalments were decided by the court), you will be given 16

days from the date of the Order to submit a further response to the court. This should be done

in writing and be headed ‘redetermination’. The claim will then be transferred to a local court.

 

Page 22 MCOL USER GUIDE

 

https://www.moneyclaimsuk.co.uk/PDFForms/money-claim-online-user-guide.pdf

[SpilshySploshy]

Just to update my thread - the previous one was closed, if I've misbehaved, my apologies.

 

N244 and £50 filed at the High Court on Tuesday, Just this morning received confirmation of a hearing with a Queens Bench Master at the end of May.

 

Thanks to everyones help on this

[Bailiff Advice]

Just to update my thread - the previous one was closed, if I've misbehaved, my apologies.

 

N244 and £50 filed at the High Court on Tuesday, Just this morning received confirmation of a hearing with a Queens Bench Master at the end of May.

 

That is good news.

 

Your friend will need to attend the hearing and given that the hearing is in a months time, he or she should ensure that DCBL are advised. The court would have notified the creditor so that they can attend or make representation as they wish.

 

There had been confusion on the other thread: (for example; because of your comment that your friend had been suffering from ill health and had been hospitalised, I thought perhaps he or she had not received court documentation and that the N244 was to apply for a 'set aside'). We now know that this was not in fact the case.

 

What information did you provide on the N244? In other words, what order were you asking the court to make?

 

Did you use the form to outline your friends financial position?

 

Did you outline a payment proposal on the form?

 

If so, what type of proposal was your friend seeking approval for?

[Bailiff Advice]

Splishy,

 

Please do not worry if the N 244 has not been properly completed, that can be sorted out very easily. All we need from you is answers to queries.

We are all here to advise and assist.

[SpilshySploshy]

Hi

 

Yes - the N244 and a EX160 for fees where submitted to the Enforcement Office at the High Court

 

We asked for the Writ to be stayed and a payment of £50 per month be accepted.

 

On the rear of the form I outlined the reason for the late payment - ie: Hospitalisation

 

The High Court is a most confusing place - the staff variable - so best approached in ultra good mood / ultra patient / ultra polite modes ( the is REALLY important )

 

We received a letter stating a 15 minute hearing with a master - I'm guessing to put her case forward.

 

This is all good - Not least we can tell the bailiffs to bog off should they rear their ugly heads

 

Hope thats of use to someone

[Bailiff Advice]

 

We asked for the Writ to be stayed and a payment of £50 per month be accepted.

 

We received a letter stating a 15 minute hearing with a master - I'm guessing to put her case forward.

 

Did you provide an Income & Expenditure and any evidence to support such a low repayment or did you merely state that your friend can only pay £50 per month (hence the need for an N245 to have been submitted).

 

You are effectively asking the creditor to accept repayment of their debt over a period of approx 8 years. At the very least, they would require details of your friend's income and outgoings.

 

PS: In light of a very recent decision from the Court of Appeal on the same subject, I would be very surprised indeed if such a low amount of £50 per month would be accepted. I will explain further when I get back home.

[Bailiff Advice]

 

Not least we can tell the bailiffs to bog off should they rear their ugly heads

 

In fact, this is not the case. You have merely made an application to the court. Until the stay is agreed, enforcement can indeed proceed.

 

However, given the low value of the items listed on the Controlled Goods Agreement, I would suspect that the enforcement agent would put the case 'on hold' until a decision has been made.

[SpilshySploshy]

Hi - The idea is to get something going until she is fully fit and able to work, at that stage up the payments to a level the claimant may find more palatable.

 

No proof of income submitted with the N244, just a brief statement plus a copy of hospital discharge paperwork (buggered back, depression, drug regime)

[SpilshySploshy]

Understood - Thanks - I'll proceed with caution

[Bailiff Advice]

 

No proof of income submitted with the N244, just a brief statement plus a copy of hospital discharge paperwork (buggered back, depression, drug regime)

 

As outlined in an earlier post, the court will send a copy of your application to the creditor seeking their agreement to your repayment proposal. In this respect, you should have provided the Form N245 which is the official court document where your friend is required to list her income and expenditure. The creditor is owed their money, and they have a right to see this document.

 

In order to explain this more easily, I will outline what happened to me in a similar situation:

 

Approx 6 months ago, I was awarded Judgment in the High Court. It wasn’t a lot of money (around £1,200). At the hearing, the Judge advised the gentleman that he had 14 days in which to make payment to me. After informing the Judge that he had made the wrong decision (he was abruptly told off), the gentleman stated that he would would need 12 months to clear the debt. I was asked for my thoughts on this. I refused. By way of concession, I allowed him a further 14 days giving him 28 days to make payment.

 

Approx, 2 week later, I received in the post an N244 application with a very brief explanation from the gentleman that he wished to vary the order to repay the judgment over four and a half years at the rate of £20 per month. On the application form he had ticked two boxes confirming that he had also included a Witness Statement and N245 Application (Income and Expenditure details). Neither of these two documents were included.

 

Given that only a couple of weeks earlier this person had informed the High Court that he could repay the debt over 12 month, and here was was two weeks later saying that he needed four and half years to repay the judgment. As the creditor, I had a right to know the reason. But it was here that I struggled. There was no witness or N245 included.

 

I contacted the High Court. I was advised that I should have been given the N245 and Witness statement. I was asked to contact the gentleman himself.

 

The response from the debtor was that the N245 and witness statement are supposedly private documents for the Judge only as it is the Judge and not me who would make the decision. He was wrong on this point.

 

After contacting the High Court with my concerns, a Witness Statement was submitted to me. I was never given the N245 as the debtor had failed to provide a copy to the court. I responded to the High Court to object to the payment proposal. I also advised the court that the witness statement was not signed.

 

In making my objection I stated that I believed that the gentleman was not being truthful as to his financial position. I had considered him to be a man of substance and to read that he was merely a man of straw was not believable. I questioned his claim to being a Carer for his elderly mother and his application for Job Seekers Allowance.

 

I send the debtor a copy of my objection. I received full payment by return.

[Bailiff Advice]

 

In light of a very recent decision from the Court of Appeal (a week ago) on the same subject, I would be very surprised indeed if such a low amount of £50 per month would be accepted. I will explain further when I get back home.

 

The recent Court of Appeal case (Loson v Stack/Newlyn) is vitally important for anyone seeking an instalment order by way of an N245 Application.

 

Prior to the judgment, courts approved instalment orders based upon what the debtor could afford to pay, after deducting "priority debts" from their income In other words; courts afforded fairness to the debtor as opposed to the judgment creditor. This is no longer the case. The interest of the judgment creditor is now paramount.

 

The appeal judges agreed that debtors should only be permitted to pay what they owe by instalments if that is fair to their creditors and achieves finality within a reasonable period.

 

The following is taken from the judgment:

 

Any case in which the debtor seeks time to pay is, in one sense, an instance of insolvency at least insofar as the debtor is unable to pay his or her debts as they fall due.

 

But I do accept that for the debtor to obtain the benefit of an instalment order, whether originally under CPR 40.11 or by way of variation under CPR 40.9A, the Court must be presented with a realistic repayment schedule backed up by evidence that the creditor can be expected to receive the amount of principal and any interest within a reasonable period of time.

 

To that extent, the interests of the creditor will be paramount.