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    • Thanks for the reply     Name of the Claimant ? CABOT FINANCIAL (UK) LIMITED   Date of issue – top right hand corner of the claim form – this in order to establish the time line you need to adhere to. 18/02/2021   Date of issue XX + 19 days ( 5 day for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = XX + 14 days to submit defence = XX (33 days in total) -   ^^^^^ NOTE : WHEN CALCULATING THE TIMELINE - PLEASE REMEMBER THAT THE DATE ON THE CLAIMFORM IS ONE IN THE COUNT [example: Issue date 01.03.2014 + 19 days (5 days for service + 14 days to acknowledge) = 19.03.2014 + 14 days to submit defence = 02.04.2014] = 33 days in total   Particulars of Claim   What is the claim for – the reason they have issued the claim? By anagreement between New Day Ltd RE Marbles & the Defendant with a credit card. The Defendant failed to make the minimum payments due. The Agreement was terminated following the service of a default notice. The Agreement was assigned to the Claimant. THE CLAIMANT THEREFORE CLAIMS 1. 2140.14  2. Costs   What is the total value of the claim? £2325.14   Have you received prior notice of a claim being issued pursuant to paragraph 3 of the PAPDC (Pre Action Protocol) ? I could have   Have you changed your address since the time at which the debt referred to in the claim was allegedly incurred? No   Did you inform the claimant of your change of address? N/A Is the claim for - a Bank Account (Overdraft) or credit card or loan or catalogue or mobile phone account? Credit Card   When did you enter into the original agreement before or after April 2007 ? Not Sure but im going to look back on old emails. But I think it would have been around 2018.   Do you recall how you entered into the agreement...On line /In branch/By post ? If I did it would have been online   Is the debt showing on your credit reference files (Experian/Equifax /Etc...) ? No but there is a DCA on there that could be for this.   Has the claim been issued by the original creditor or was the account assigned and it is the Debt purchaser who has issued the claim. Debt Purchaser by the looks of it.   Were you aware the account had been assigned – did you receive a Notice of Assignment? I could have but I’ll need to look back.   Did you receive a Default Notice from the original creditor? Not sure but its possible.   Have you been receiving statutory notices headed “Notice of Sums in Arrears”  or " Notice of Arrears "– at least once a year ? Not sure but its possible.    What was the date of your last payment? I don’t know.   Was there a dispute with the original creditor that remains unresolved? No.   Did you communicate any financial problems to the original creditor and make any attempt to enter into a debt management plan? No.
    • Sorry, just to be clear; I handed the car back in November time.
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
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    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
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Purchased a BMW 420 Convertible on a 66 plat (Purchased August 2017) with less then 5,000 miles. EX Demo Car.

 

7 months in to owing the car, 3 of the 4 alloys have corroded. took the car to BMW of which tells me in May 2017 (3 months before i had purchased the car, 3 of the alloys had been refurbished and only carry a 6 month warranty.

 

It was not disclosed to me that the alloys had been refurbished.

 

I said to them i don't expect to purchase a car less then 5k miles for over £30k to have refurbished alloys. I requested new alloys as it was not disclosed to me at point of sale. they refused. The car is on BMW finance.

 

Am i wrong by stating i want new alloys or is this what i should expect?

 

looks like someone else got the same issue https://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?h=0&f=72&t=1541056

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"Am i wrong by stating i want new alloys or is this what i should expect?"

 

Yes you are and no you're not.

 

The problem is that as soon as the car is registered it becomes a used car. This then comes under the "commensurate with age and mileage" section of the regs.

 

Having said that I don't think BMW dealers are allowed to refurbish alloy wheels as the process used can mean that the temperatures involved anneal the wheel and weaken them.

 

Different manufacturers have different views on the issue, some allow it, others don't. If BMW do, and it's years since I worked for them, then I'd be surprised.

What's more disturbing is given the age and mileage of the vehicle then why are the wheels showing signs of corrosion?

 

Personally I'd be asking the dealer for the engineering standard that allows refurbishment from BMW.

 

I think if you did this and wrote to BMW UK in Bracknell you'd get a new set of wheels very very quickly and the dealer might like to consider their position with BMW AG/UK as refurbishment is a big no no.

 

Either way you'd be entitled to replacement ones under the normal Manufacturer warranty unless they have been damaged.

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Thanks for the reply.

I spoke to bmw who phoned the dealer who refused replacement.

 

He said he will cover the cost to repair the 3 alloys and the warranty would be 6 months and if they go again they will charge cost price to repair.

The car is not even two years old.

 

Ex demo car which looks like was not looked after.

 

Do I have a claim as they are not of satisfactory quality and don't want refurb to be back again in 12 months same issue.

 

Just spoken to BMW - they do not recommend dealers to repair alloys. Only a replacement is recommended.

 

It will void the car warranty on the alloys. if they had not been repaired then the balance of the car 3 year warranty would be available to me.

 

BMW said they should have told me about the alloys being repaired as it affects the warranty. However there is noting that BMW can do apart from recommend to the dealer to replace but cannot enforce it.

 

to replace all 4 alloys the cost is £2,250 Tempted to issue a money claim for that amount.

 

What are my chances if i was to take the BMW Dealer to court on the bases of

 

1) a repair to the car which prevents the customer from obtaining Manufacturers Warranty should be disclosed to the customer before purchase (this was not done)

2) The repair of 4 alloys on a car that was less then a year old - 5000 miles is excessive

3) The repair only lasted 11 months on 3 of the 4 alloys

 

Desired outcome. Dealer ordered by court to replace 4 alloys with new at their cost

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I don't think you would have a problem here.

Just write to the dealer and tell them they have operated outside of the dealer agreement.

It's quite clear cut to me, you don't repair alloy wheels.

 

From an engineering perspective it very very clear cut.

It's a big big no no.

Any BMW dealer is seriously risking their franchise.

 

Many years ago when I worked for them they walked into my workshop unannounced as they were allowed to do and audited a level 2 service car.

The only fault found was a spare wheel tyre pressure out of spec and I was to be fined £10k or the workshop was.

When I looked through the issue I discovered there was a mis match in data and used that as my excuse to get off the fine.

 

The point here is if BMW UK say refurbishment of wheels is not allowed as per generally accepted within most manufactures and from engineering direction then the dealer you are dealing with is lying and risks his franchise or huge penalties.

 

The problem you will have is that you are still using the car. This is understandable as you buy a car to use.

 

I strongly suggest you stop using the car or threaten to and pass a replacement hire car charge to them. I can't believe the dealers attitude to this.

 

Every so often I request dealers around the world are reminded that alloy wheel repairs that involve the wheel being subjected to heat or re-finishing processes are at their risk and it's not allowed under the terms of their franchise agreement.

Edited by dx100uk
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Hi,

 

I asked BMW UK for a copy of engineering standard that allows refurbishment from BMW. They refused and said it was a internal document. I have asked the dealer for a copy and he is avoiding it.

 

However all BMW keep stating is the refurbishment is not a recommend way of repair.

 

I first complained to both BMW UK and Dealer last Monday 24/04/2018 of which the dealer took pictures. I feel they have had enough time to address this.

 

BMW UK have a open case with a Good Will payment claim requested by the dealer and is currently with them for a decision. The head of business at the dealer said he does not think it will get approved due to the repairs and is not going to give me his final response until BMW UK have confirmed the out come of the good will claim.

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Head of business response is

 

your timeframe of a week is unreasonable and the issue has not stopped you using the vehicle for it’s primary purpose.

 

I will wait for the outcome of the decision from BMW UK.

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Engineering standards documents should not be internal documents. They are standards which the manufacturer builds to or expects the supplier to meet. At the very minimum they should meet regulatory standards. This is a typical BMW reaction. The fact that they say it's an internal document means that it exists. And it will!!

 

 

What will be happening now is that the dealer will be trying to explain why they operated outside of the guidelines or that they have no guidelines. I cannot believe BMW have stated this and referred it to a goodwill payment system. Expect an offer of 50% which you should reject.

 

 

The only way to repair an alloy wheel correctly is to strip and re-paint by powder coating which involves temperatures above that at which the base metal of the wheel anneals. This is why manufacturers give a repair standard and the fact that to get paint to stick properly means it has to be baked at around the temperatures which cause the annealing, hence the reason why manufacturers ban it.

 

 

I'd be going hell for leather on this one.

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Something you could consider asking them as well is the following to see the dealers response.

 

1. When exactly were the Alloys Refurbished?

 

2. Were the Alloys Refurbished by a BMW UK approved retailer or their agent and exactly who?

 

3. If the Alloys were Refurbished by a BMW UK approved retailer or their agents why are they not be covered by a 3 year guarantee?

 

Look at this BMW UK link: https://www.bmw.co.uk/help/search?query=Alloy+Repair

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They have an approved BMW workshop

 

Latest response. - I actually purchased the car within 12 months of first registration.

 

Please find attached the AUC paperwork as requested that BMW UK issue for Retailers, as the requirement for preparation standards on an approved Used Car.

 

You will note the highlighted section regarding wheel refurbishment.

 

I have taken advice from our solicitors and our position remains that:

 

 

  • We had no obligation to single out to you the refurbishment of the alloy wheels over and above any other normal preparation that was carried out on your vehicle.
  • Wheel refurbishment is common place and indeed the majority of Used Cars will have at least one wheel refurbished.
  • BMW UK’s guidelines dictate that Alloy Wheel refurbishment is acceptable within their Approved Used Programme.
  • As this repair was at Dealership level, I will cover it with a year long warranty and as such my offer to make good the wheels stands.
  • I am also willing to cover the wheels for the remainder of the Manufacturer’s Warranty which I understand will expire on 31st August 2019.

 

This is our final position in this matter and I await your confirmation that you are in agreement to the above.

 

car-check.pdf

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The alloys were Refurbished May 2017 - I purchased the car 29/08/2017 - car first reg 01/09/2016

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looks like i don't have a case unless BMW UK will give to me in writing that they don't approve the repair of alloys.

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This all will hinge on how the wheels were refurbished. Yes BMW do allow as do other manufacturers refurbishment of the wheels. But this is restricted to localised repairs and BMW state the repair is guaranteed for three years. The big no no is full refurbishment where the wheel is stripped and subsequently baked.

 

 

I'd ask for the level of refurbishment data.

 

 

Either way I can't see the dealer wriggling out of this. The only way I think they can is that the original manufacturer only warrants cars for one year and subsequent years offered are an insurance policy where they tie you in to using a dealer for service.

 

 

You could respond to the email referencing the today's news story starting to circulate about BMW's lack of reaction to a critical safety issue in the UK. I could give dozens of other examples such as misleading customers over Z1 structural issues, loss of compression in cylinder issues, screen cracking on 7 Series etc etc. However this was some time ago but from what I hear the culture and attitude hasn't changed. This seems to be endemic in German brands which probably explains the warrant issued for Martin Winterkorns arrest (ex head of VWAG) in the USA today over the emissions scandal.

 

 

Frankly if I were you, the dealership would be wearing the wheels around their necks by now with the space saver spare if fitted being worn by the CEO of BMW GB.

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Solicitor took a look at the case, documents and emails and said if i took court action, that i could end up with a costs order.

 

Dealer now agreed to cover the cost of 2 alloys if i cover the other two.

 

I needed hard evidence and the check list sent from bmw uk basically destroyed my case.

 

Again, the consumer is the one who always pays to sort out issues which is not their fault.

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your last comment misses the point, there wasnt really an issue other than in your mind.

It wasnt a new car so they cleaned the wheels, would you have preferred it that they dindt? I know that this means you may not have bought it but lets face a very simple fact, alloys are corroded by salt on the road so new or refurbished you would have had the same problem after this winter same as they did after the last winter hence the refurb in May.

you also sat that their evidence destroyed your case, no, it shows that you didnt have a case to answer. A refurb isnt a repair anyway. you wouldnt say that cleaning your car was a repair. However, I would be interested to know how they did the refurb, electropolishing bgiving the best result (basically a bath with a current passed through a suitable solutionto strip the surface- this doesnt affect the integrity of the whhel where skimming might do in the long term)

I consider that the dealer was very accommodating by offering to pay for 2 of the replacement wheels as being good customer service

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your last comment misses the point, there wasnt really an issue other than in your mind.

It wasnt a new car so they cleaned the wheels, would you have preferred it that they dindt? I know that this means you may not have bought it but lets face a very simple fact, alloys are corroded by salt on the road so new or refurbished you would have had the same problem after this winter same as they did after the last winter hence the refurb in May.

you also sat that their evidence destroyed your case, no, it shows that you didnt have a case to answer. A refurb isnt a repair anyway. you wouldnt say that cleaning your car was a repair. However, I would be interested to know how they did the refurb, electropolishing bgiving the best result (basically a bath with a current passed through a suitable solutionto strip the surface- this doesnt affect the integrity of the whhel where skimming might do in the long term)

I consider that the dealer was very accommodating by offering to pay for 2 of the replacement wheels as being good customer service

 

 

Sorry, I think your response is rubbish. If you buy a car under a year old and still under the manufacturers warranty you are entitled to benefit from that warranty. In this case the wheels had been repaired supposedly by their own bodyshop and came with a 3 year guarantee as per the documentation subsequently sent/linked from someone else and taken from BMW Uk's website. Refurbishment by definition is a repair! The key here is what repairs were done and did they comply with engineering direction as to what is allowable and what is not.

 

 

". However, I would be interested to know how they did the refurb, electropolishing bgiving the best result (basically a bath with a current passed through a suitable solutionto strip the surface- this doesnt affect the integrity of the whhel where skimming might do in the long term)"

 

 

So from the above if they did do this then the wheels would be repainted and this would be done by powder coating which means baking it above acceptable temperatures. It's the only way of doing it and carries risk otherwise why would manufacturers ban the process?

 

 

I'm convinced there is more to this than meets the eye and whilst I'd agree BMW's agreement to replace 2 wheels might be considered generous I'd be expecting the dealer to match this. Something is obviously amiss here. Nothing is stacking up and smacks of a dealer cockup under the dealer agreement and they have been caught out.

 

 

Need to find out what the repairs actually were!!

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BMW UK refused to do anything, its the dealer who offered to Refurbishment of all alloys again or replace two and i replace two.£787.49 inc VAT i got to pay.

 

What really winds me up, is BMW UK give the dealer (i attached a copy in my previous post) a document saying Refurbishment is acceptable. yet they refused a warranty claim as the alloys had been Refurbished.

 

I have been advised as the contract is between the dealer and I, i have no contract with BMW so cannot take BMW UK to court.

 

Its not a easy case to win in court i have been told, based on the information.

 

also i have to look at this if i went down the legal route my car is still not going to get fixed in the mean time and legal action could take 6 months to complete.

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do you have written evidence that BMW ban this?

 

So from the above if they did do this then the wheels would be repainted and this would be done by powder coating which means baking it above acceptable temperatures. It's the only way of doing it and carries risk otherwise why would manufacturers ban the process?

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I think youl'll find if you dig deep enough is that the under the terms of the BMW agreement with the garage concerned, they are and have been deemed to be an agent of BMW which makes them equally liable.

I think there is case law on this.

You still need to find out how the wheels were refurbished though.

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This still does not stack up to me. My gut instinct is that BMW have looked at this and the dealer has done a mickey mouse repair hence why they are walking way. However, there is no doubt that if this is the case it's obvious that BMW UK are saying to the dealer if you operate outside of these standards then we cannot support. When I worked for the dealer network I saw countless issues like this. What's probably happened is that here we have a dealer demonstrator, wheels get damaged as they do so rather than use in house body shop to repair they call in mickey mouse to do it for them. They make the car look nice for sale and subsequently the issue arises with corrosion. If there was a quality issue with the finish of the wheels then BMW UK/AG would cover it

 

 

You've tried that route so clearly this now is with the dealer who under they're own steam should be addressing the issue.

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See post #12 and the news that broke today!!

 

 

BMW are more slippery than a Thames eel covered in slime, try to wriggle out of anything!!

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