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PE ANPR PCN - lido carpark cliftonville margate

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hi

 

Drove into carpark

didnt leave car just sat in car and admired the view for 10/15 mins.

 

i didnt buy a ticket as i thought I didnt need one as I wasnt leaving the car, only sitting in it.

 

Received a parking charge through the post, Ignored as friend said too....

 

Have just received 2nd one, which i ripped up.

 

I am becoming scared and regretting ignoring the letters.

 

Please, any advice?

Edited by dx100uk
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Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Please don't worry, the guys here will know what to do.

 

Can you scan up whatever paperwork you still have please? Remove anything that might identify you, our upload guide [click on the word] should help.

 

Best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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Hi please find below requested information.

due to my stupidity of ignoring first letter i am now beyond the payment date of 20/4/18.

 

I felt i didnt have to pay a ticket as I never left the car, we sat and admired the view for 13 mins,

 

do i have a leg to stand on?

I'm not very well educated and I'm intimadated by the legal process

 

looks like I have to deal with this as I do not want a ccj.

I have mental health issues which causes me to avoid things can i use that?

 

Any help you knowledgable peeps can provide, is very very welcome.

 

1 Date of the infringement 31/03/18 12:33:56

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 5/4/18

 

3 Date received I think it was 8/4/18 I received the 2nd reminder letter 17/4/18

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] I don’t know

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes image of my car entering and leaving

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up your appeal] no

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

 

7 Who is the parking company? Parking eye

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] lido carpark margate kent

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure, BPA

please check HERE

 

it says they are a member of the BPA for q8

Edited by dx100uk
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so EXACTLY how long were you in the car park? There is a minimum grace period of 10 minutes and being there less than 15 wil not be considered a parking event in most courts but we really want to knock it on the head before it gets that far

 

Is the place near to you so you canget down there and photograph the sigange and the ticket machine so we can see what the offer of a contact was.

 

using your mental health as a get out wont win a court case, it will lose it as this is about contracts, not parking or anything else.

Edited by honeybee13
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Hi ericsbrother,

on the letter it says; Time in carpark; 0 hours 13 minutes

Yes it is close so I will be able to get photos.

The fact i didnt leave the car, does that have any bearing?

Thank you thank you

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should be ok then.


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Thanks for your reply,

Should I be doing anything shall I wait for ericsbrother to respond?

Thank you thank you

I will take photos tonight and upload tonight

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Hi and welcome to CAG.

 

It would be worth spending some time reading other threads. The following is just one I knew of. There may be more.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?476286-Parking-Eye-claimform-ANPR-PCN-Lido-car-park-Cliftonville-Kent-BB-on-Display&p=5013350&viewfull=1#post5013350

 

Parking Eye are members of the BPA so any appeal would first go to PE and when it is rejected (and it will) you can then go to POPLA which is a lot fairer that the IAS.

 

I don't think there are many signs there and the pay station is set back as well. I will have to look again on Google Streetview


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This hasn't got anything to do with whether or not you left the vehicle. But the 13 minutes is absolutely crucial.

 

The BPA say in their T&C's (link below) that any grace period should be a MINIMUM of 10 minutes. Section 13.2. So is 13 minutes unreasonable?

 

I possibly don't agree that your mental health has nothing to do with this, and I'll explain why.

 

 

If you are considered disabled, and it matters not whether or not you have a blue badge. Reasonable adjustments must be made to allow you extra time. Whether this is time to park and do some shopping, or time to park, read, understand and decide on whether or not you agree with the signage at the car park.

 

This is covered in the BPA Terms & Conditions for their Members of which ParkingLie is one, at section 16 of this document.

 

Whilst section 16 is written with the physically disabled in mind, under the equalities act, they must also make reasonable adjustments for anyone else that is considered disabled in any way, and as I've said, that would include extra time to read and understand the signage.

 

So where a 10 minute 'grace period' may be considered reasonable for most motorists. 13 minutes may not be unreasonable for others.

 

 

It's just another possible prong of attack for an appeal to ParkingLie (in the first instance).

 

 

 

Do you have any of the paperwork from ParkingLie that you can upload after removing any personal details, reference numbers and vehicle registration?


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hi, I ripped it up.....doh !!

but have the pieces, what would you like to know?

so, I need to write to them appealing this charge?

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I followed that thread,

thanks for your help i really really appreciate it

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Can you piece it together on a scanner bed and scanit


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I have looked on streetview but the Lido signs are from 2014 when a different company ran the car park.

 

As well as DF's excellent response, it may be worth checking with the local council to see if PE have actually applied for planning permission for the signs.

 

Whatever you do with PE, never mention the drivers name, only state 'The Driver'


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so, I need to write to them appealing this charge?

 

Yes, but not yet. ParkingLie (as with most others) give you 28 days to appeal, so there's time enough to wait and gather some more opinions on what that appeal should contain.

 

Don't rush in to it blind :thumb:


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yes I can but not for a couple of hours as out at appointment, will that be ok/

Thank you

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Everyone;

I wont be able to reply for a couple of hours but your help is desperatley needed and if I dont reply it isnt because I dont need your help. :)

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as already said no hurry to respond to them so get some pictures of the entrance to the car park, any signage at said entrance and any different signs that may be scattered about.

 

Also get clear pictures of the terms and conditions on the payment machinery as this is when a contract is actually agreed, when you put the money in you have accepted what is offered. Up to that point there is always room for argument.

 

DF's observations about the Equalities Act are valid, my point was that telling a court about your mental condition or saying you are not very well educated may get you sympathy

 

the law applies equally to all so you need to try and get a positive outcome before that stage because if that is your only argument then you wont win.

 

We will try and find flaws with the areas that are dealt with in private parking and that will include

how easy it is to spot their signs,

how easy they are to understand,

are they a valid offer and

whether the claim is for a breach of contract or for monies due as a contractual sum.

 

the first 3 bits mean we need to see the signs and associated terms on the machine but they must also have the right to offer you a contract and that means whether they have the correct permissions or not.

 

parking co's are known to lie about such things

Edited by dx100uk
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Sorry for delay i have been working,

Are these photo's any good?

if not I can go take some more.

I cant work out how to upload photos..........doh

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Sorry for delay I am working this weekend.

I have taken pictures but having trouble uploading, I will spend more time when i finish work this evening.

Thanks again for everyones time, I dont feel so scared.

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read upload


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

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Was the first image from around the pay machine? On the streetview (from the road) the images are updated to show the pay machine in place but I couldn't see any signs nearby. The terms and conditions in tiny writing is virtually unreadable and I cannot see a UK address at all. A PO box number is insufficient.


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You need to start thinking about the appeal as time is running out. This can be as simple as stating that 'the driver' has a minimum of 10 minutes to read, understand and then decide to stay or go as stated in the BPA code of practice. Three extra minutes would not be a strict breach as the driver needed to find a space, park and then go to the machine and read the instructions bearing in mind that the signs are not that clear and had to spend extra time reading the small print to ensure that you knew what was what.

 

Others will have a better idea then me so hang on a while till the others arrive. I wouldn't mention the mental health issues as yet.


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Interesting,

the sign at the entrance is not a contract but an "invitation to treat so you can then accept or reject the contract offered. you only accpet it when you feed the meter, which you didnt so no contract accepted.

 

secondly,

the sign with the tariffs on says that you must park within the lines and dont park on the yellow lines. If you disobey you will be clobbered for £100. Nothing in that that says you must pay to remain there so according to their sign you havent done anything to attract a demand for £100 The small print is immaterial as it doesnt form part of the core contract.

 

The only thing to consider is whetehr the tariff table is construed as to be the same as the "donts" terms.

 

the sign should start off by saying you have to agree to pay or you are in breach and then have the bit about not parking on yellow lines.

 

They are currently separate and as the sign facing the road damages PE chances od a claim they should ahve got this right.

 

So, what to write to them.

I would start off with a damning of their signage being an invitation to treat and the fact that the contract is only formed when money is accepted by the payment machine.

 

As the driver didnt put any money in the contract was never formed so there can be no breach.

 

Secondly as the sigange at the site contains 3 different sets of text it takes more than 10 minutes to go round and read it all and then decide if one wants to be bound by it and having decided it wasnt agreeable, leave.

 

This is covered by the BPA code of Practice which set a MINIMUM grace period and this 10 minutes is that, a minimum not a maximum.

 

thirdly the wording on the sign stating the tariffs contain text so small they are unreadable and laid out in a way that is impossible to be considerd a fair contract under S62 of the Consumer Rights Act and thus no contractual obligation is enforceable.

 

Lastly the wording on the signage is identical to the case of Parking Eye v Cargius and so the amount claimed is designed to deter and is an unenforceable penalty.

 

get this off to them pronto.

they may well huff an puff but i would bet that they wont go further than farmed out threatograms or they risk losing big money.

Edited by dx100uk
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