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    • you need to ring northants bulk and ask for a copy of the judgement and the claimform by email pdf. it is quite usual for them to not have a copy of the claimform. so you need to record the call and ask them to read out the particulars of claim and the address it was sent too.     old wives tales , if you have a debt owing that shows on your credit file or you know exists from say the last 7yrs you should NEVER move without WRITTING to the debt owner with your new address. never run from debt which falls within the above .     all mortgage style SLC loans that were not deferred with erudio following the gov't sale in 2013 and that did not have a court claim raised within 6yrs are SB'd.   drydens simply did this because they wrote to your old address, got no response, and knew they'd get a default roboclaim CCJ where no human checks anything.   shot yourself in the foot.      
    • yep.   if all these are still owned/with the original creditors and you are not paying any powerless DCA's  then little point in any CCA requests at this stage unless any (non OD A/C's) are say pre 2000 opening.   our pro rata letters are the way to go you'll find those in the debt collection section of our library.   get any income payments on going or otherwise moved into a parachute A/c.   it is most probable that whatever you do most A/c's will be defaulted once this is done if not already. bearing in mine your wish to re mortgage or move in a future, it is most probable that the quicker you do default , the earlier a DN will be registered thus the earlier these will not show following their 6th birthday. this might involve you thinking about stopping all payments now ensuring this does happen, then resuming payment under a pro rata scheme self administered , once this happens.   just be aware that no DMP providers will ever question enforceability, should that be relevant.     
    • LL would have Absolutely no chance of getting the smart meter changed back.....
    • slow down ...read what i'm asking , stating and trying to clarify.. it all might seem useless or totally irrelevant but it's important information moving forward with the whole situation and useful in the SPC claim moving forward     there was not 2 loans - the litigated OD is not a loan but it appears from your comment here..     sorry but then you did get scammed on many fronts... they allowed you to settle the loan exploiting your confusion over thinking it was the litigated account. they didn't tell you either and they would also have been aware of your statement filed response form:   The respondent had a junior account with the Bank of Scotland since a young age.  The Bank of Scotland offered the Respondent a loan of around £2500. This Respondent serviced the loan until losing her source of income and ran into some financial difficulty resulting in defaulting in servicing the loan.   they settled for a discounted sum... why? we usually find this is because they hold no enforceable paperwork at all. or was full of charges , charges could have been the discount or it could have been due to 'a business decision' ...   but sure as eggs is eggs there is no way 1st credit would not have raised a court claim for both the OD and the loan unless there was a very good reason. they didn't that smells...badly.   OD 's are notoriously difficult to litigate upon if defended properly...but with a loan in the same claim, with enforceable paperwork, they would have almost been guaranteed to win.   it's also a shame you didn't come where before you did anything but we are where we are.   now the above might seem harsh..even petty but our posts are not only for you and your issue they are also for future readers that find us via search engines or read like threads here alerting debtors to frequent pitfalls and innocent wet myself actions many do that all these dca's will and have exploited time and time again over the last +40yrs .   i'll try and get around to properly redacting all your pdf's tonight and get them back up. but before i finish and get on with the above........the status of the claim as it stands now.   From what i can gather the claim now hinges upon proving her ex at the time settled by a discounted payment to HBOS well before the sale to Intrum and the SPC Claim.   In all honestly and with regard to your comments in your previous posts upon his character, i seriously doubt this ever happened. the disclosures from Intrum contain all the OD statements , should that have happened, it would be detailed in those.   there is little point in the claimant hiding that info as they would be in far more legal trouble should they have doctored them than insuring a mere +£1k claim win. Even 1st credit wouldn't pull such stunts.   Sorry but there is little point in requesting HBOS to attend any future hearing, nor hoping the SAR shows anything different to the statements the claimant has disclosed . That will cost you more money , and more money in terms of the claimant attending another hearing.   there is one exploitation i see. that being the mention of a default notice. the claim states:  The respondent fell into arrears under the Finance Agreement. A Default Notice was Issued by the Original Creditor .   now default notices are not issued for OD A/C's (which ties in to the possible loan confusion and scam settlement i mentioned) . This tallies with a common mistake that many DCA's, including why i keep mentioning 1st credit, which is the previous name for Intrum, made on numerous claims and was one of the reasons for the name change. To Hide that They lost many Statutory Demand and court claims over the non existence of a DN or proof of it's issuance by the OC (a DCA can't issue a DN) .. No copy of a default notice is fatal to to successful  litigation.   even though in this OD case one was not ever needed. (Poor particulars of claim showing copy and paste, and never expecting a claim to be defended but responded to by a wet themselves response , which you did by settling a loan which you believed was the claimed debt when it never was)    other than that you indicate you made an OOC F&F offer in 09-20  have you advanced this option since ?   dx
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    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 31 replies
    • Hermes lost parcel.. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/422615-hermes-lost-parcel/
      • 49 replies

Housing Act 1985 - Bedroom Tax appeal


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I have recently fallen into the trap of Bedroom Tax.

 

I had been working full time and I am now in between positions and in receipt of UC. I researched the process with the help of relevant threads on here and have submitted a letter appealing the bedroom tax for one room as it does not meet the Housing Act criteria.

Within my letter I attached a diagram providing room measurements and submitted this via recorded delivery post, received and signed for.

 

I hadn't received a reply and was discussing another matter with the council and they said they would chase the person concerned and get a response. They said in no uncertqin terms that as we had signed and accepted the property as a three bedroom house, they were not reducing the tax.

 

Now, my thoughts are that as we had moved into this house 8 years prior to the introduction of the bedroom tax, surely this isn't sufficient and I should challenge their response?

 

Am I correct in thinking that the housing officer's decision does not meet the Housing Act provisions and therefore I have grounds to appeal this further?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

Shelley

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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What Housing Act provisions are you thinking of?

Rules can change.

 

That to be a bedroom it has to be more than 70 square metres and to be half a bedroom it has to be more than 50 square metres (available usage space)

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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'Bedroom Tax' is just a Media construct, it can apply to any room.

 

I understand but it appears that the LA officer does not understand the Housing Act 1985, and therefore should not be doing a job without the relevent qualification or training. Really winds me up when they spurge out letters they don't even know what they're doing!

 

Just another fight.......

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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I have located a few upheld decisions on Bedroom tax across the country and I wondered if I would be permitted to use these as examples to my local borough council?

 

I am cautious to presume that the Housing Act 1985 applies to England and therefore I would be able to use the examples found. Have I answered my own question here, as I am stressed beyond belief.

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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70 sq metres for a bedroom? there are houses smaller than that. Quote that and you will be laughed at. In imperial measurements that is a room 31 feet by 22 feet. basically bigger than the size of the footprint of a terrace house. As for bedrooms, only kitchens and bathrooms arent bedrooms as far as housing act goes for overcrowding/decency purposes

That to be a bedroom it has to be more than 70 square metres and to be half a bedroom it has to be more than 50 square metres (available usage space)
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That to be a bedroom it has to be more than 70 square metres and to be half a bedroom it has to be more than 50 square metres (available usage space)

 

Small correction, it's 70sq ft to be classed as a bedroom, HOWEVER, if your LL is social, then the LA will contact them and ask what is on your tenancy agreement, and what they class it as, one, two or three bed property.

 

AFAIK, it is ONLY LA properties that fall under that 75sq ft rule, you can always ask them for the discretionary housing payment (DHP), if you're in receipt of HB.

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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  • 1 month later...

having appealed the LA rejection letter stating that i recommeneded an inspection,

and raising concerns of overcrowding

(because i had intended letting out rooms to help with overheads)

 

the officer has replied with the view that Housing services will not change their decision

as the calculation in the Act is on permitted numbers and not a physical size requirement.

No further appeal in this matter but he says i could telephone him to discuss the matter further.

 

I am aware of a councils DHP but its just that! Discretionary.......

 

This has the potential of making me homeless if i cant get this appealed.

 

How do you suggest i could move forward with this please?

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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Do you have permission to sub let the rooms in writing?

Your intending tonsub let rooms, be it with a bed in it but do not want it classed as a bedroom?

Are you inteding letting the dwp your sub letting rooms that you want to be exempt from bedroom tax but they must have a bed( otherwise who wood rent a room they cant sleep in)

Are you having a laugh here or what?

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Do you have permission to sub let the rooms in writing?

Your intending tonsub let rooms, be it with a bed in it but do not want it classed as a bedroom?

Are you inteding letting the dwp your sub letting rooms that you want to be exempt from bedroom tax but they must have a bed( otherwise who wood rent a room they cant sleep in)

Are you having a laugh here or what?

 

 

Ah yes, you must be a true blue?

 

Clearly you haven't been at the mercy of this government, and to negate muddying the waters any further..... Shelley, ASK for DHP, the worst that can happen is they refuse, I would ONLY ring them IF YOU CAN RECORD THE CALL (?) If not, then keep everything in writing.

 

Is this a local authority property you live in?

Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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  • 2 months later...

I am currently appealing the bedroom tax (finally through DWP) having been given incorrect information from local council.

 

I wonder if someone might know where I can get some details from as the Housing Act 1985 section 326 (6) states; " A certificate of the local housing authority stating the number and floor areas of the rooms in a dwelling, and that the floor areas have been ascertained in the prescribed manner, is prima facie evidence for the purposes of legal proceedings of the facts stated in it."?

 

I have approached the planning department to ascertain when the house was built to try to access architect drawings but they are no longer available, apparently.

 

If I approach the council the average response is poor because they do not know what I am talking about, and if I draw their attention to what it is for, I highly suspect I will get stone-walled to prevent assistance with my tribunal.

 

I have measured the room in question skirting to skirting, and have invited them to visit the property to inspect for themselves, but this has been declined as has a mandatory reconsideration via DWP, thus the tribunal appeal is the next stage.

 

Are there any other options available to gain official diagrams/dimensions to support my appeal?

 

Thanks in advance

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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We really need more information

 

Is this Housing Association/Council Housing etc or

 

Private Housing?

 

Please remember this is not called Bedroom Tax (most people still call it that) but it is actually Under Occupation

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I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

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It is local council and the room has less than 50 sq ft (available) floor space.

It has never been used as a bedroom

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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Thanks for that now I think this has happened because the Council Housing have your property classed as X Bedroom Property.

 

Is there a specific medical reason for the extra room?

 

Has the Council Housing given you option to downsize to a smaller property?

 

Have a wee look at this CAG Link: https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?393992-Bedroom-Tax-Sources-of-Interest-**Correct-as-at-Oct-2015**

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I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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I utilised the link you suggest awhile ago when researching my predicament so I am familiar with its contents. However, some of the links within this are no longer available.

 

The family moved into this property some 13 years ago. The children have grown up and left home and my husband passed away. The house is 3 bedrooms. However, the smallest 'bedroom' houses the entral heating boiler and the stairs bulkhead. It only has 35.77 available sq feet and has never been used as a bedroom because of this.

 

The house was adapted for my late husband and the council have not pushed for me to move albeit, I may consider it when I have completed my trauma therapy and I am fit and well again, but if one of my children decides to return home in the forth coming months then I will stay but they will not be in the smallest room.

 

I will still have excess room if my child does not return home but it will reduce the penalty from 25% to 14% which will help immensely.

 

I am aware of the discretionary housing payment but I respect it has an end date. Therefore, I am trying to locate the 'certificate of rooms' for the property to support my appeal to the tribunal.

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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I think what you would have to consider is could that room fit a single bed if circumstances were different and the space was required.

 

If that was the case then in essence you are depriving others who need a larger home and should immediately downsize regardless of the stress, strain, upheaval and loss of social contacts and support or be faced with hunger.

 

Not my mindset btw just those who we choose to govern us !

 

Good Luck I hope you win your appeal I fully understand how it feels to be forced out of a home.

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Hi

 

Couple of links of interest:

 

The Housing Benefit and Universal Credit (Size Criteria) (Miscellaneous Amendments) Regulations 2017:

https://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/2017/213/contents/made

 

Housing Benefit Circular A3/2017:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/602934/a3-2017.pdf

(NOTE: the above link is an Automatic Download in PDF Format so Be Aware of this before Downloading)

 

Housing Benefit for local authorities: adjudication circulars:

https://www.gov.uk/government/collections/housing-benefit-for-local-authorities-circulars

 

Secretary of State for Work and Pensions v Carmichael and Sefton BC:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/media/5901cd57e5274a06b0000230/CH_3609_2014-00.pdf

(NOTE: the above link is an Automatic Download in PDF Format so Be Aware of this before Downloading)

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I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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Hi Stu,

 

Thank you for additional info. I have done extensive research on this subject and I am now trying to gather more 'personal' evidence in so much as plans from the original build of the property to ascertain number of rooms and theor sizes when built. However, the planning department have advised they no longer exist. Therefore, how can the council defend a legal case on their properties when they do not hold such information?

 

I am now drafting a Freedom of Information request on a couple of things which may help.

 

I've re-read the 'Nelson' case and realised that the UT have disagreed with the FtT that under-occupancy is the flip side to over-crowding but allowed one of the Nelson's cases on room size, layout and dimensions but as I say, I am looking for more personal evidence to support my case.

 

Might you be able to suggest who I could approach to gain specific information on the property?

I think I still have copies of the plans for my neighbour who I am attached to (they're a bought property) so it may have sizes and dimensions on those perhaps.

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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The Housing Association would have went through the Local Authority for Planning Permission so there own Planning Department should have that information on Planning Application etc as well as the Housing Association. (have you specifically asked the Local Authorities Planning Department & HA for this information on the Property?)

 

Question? Does your Tenancy Agreement specifically state the amount of Bedrooms the Property has?

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I cannot give any advice by PM - If you provide a link to your Thread then I will be happy to offer advice there.

I advise to the best of my ability, but I am not a qualified professional, benefits lawyer nor Welfare Rights Adviser.

Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

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I am LA and yes, I asked them directly to their planning dept.

 

I am currently looking for original tenancy agreement under a mountain of archived paperwork but the housing manager's response when raising this with him was that it was signed as a 3 bed and still is a 3 bed. Naturally, I will keep looking for the tenancy document.

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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Although the joint tenancy was agreed and signed for in 2005, spouse died in 2015 and I was entitled to sole tenancy under succession rights. Will this affect the matter in any way?

Santander PPI X 2 **WON** claims on behalf of son (Oct 2010/ Mar 2011)

Citicard O/H (PPI) - **WON** Compound Interest Dec 2011

Citicard O/H (Charges) Bailiffs sent in August 2012

Barclaycard - **WON** Compound Interest Oct 2011

Monument - account information being sought for OH

Citicard - self - N1 submitted August 2012

Barclaycard - self - **WON** damages for non disclosure/information now rec'd. Aug 2012

Barclaycard - relation - Failed SAR sent 29/09/11

Halifax SAR sent 18/08/2011 for relation

LTSB - SAR sent 09/08/2011 for friend

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