Jump to content


omslemming

EE misusing payment without permission, any laws broken?....

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 600 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

Hi there, heres the story,

 

I paid for an early upgrade online with ee.

the cost was £251 including the early upgrade fee to buy out the rest of my contract and the upfront cost of the new handset.

 

Now I ordered this the same day my new bill was generated, however my payment date for this bill is the 10th of each month, it was not due for another week so I didnt see a problem.

 

in the after morning after ordering I checked the ee tracker to find news of my delivery only to find it `timed out` it couldnt find any record of the order number in other words.

 

I phoned ee to find out what was going on, the rep told me for some reason the system had taken my upgrade fee but then straight away refunded it and it was on its way back to my account, she apologised and said if I wanted it back quicker I could get an indemnity on the direct debit with my bank asking them to cancel it and I should recieve payment that same day.

 

Since then I found a better deal with another provider on the same handset (vodafones 32gb of data v 8gb ee were offering for the same price as I was paying now monthly!) I decided id use the refund to pay off my contract with EE and go with that one instead of upgrading.

 

I contacted the livesupport on the ee website just to ensure the upgrade hadnt been put through again and to make sure it was indeed cancelled before going with the other network.

 

I was then told that I was not being issued with a refund, the funds instead had been put towards my account balance and it was now in credit (this was presented as something I was apparently meant to be happen with)

 

Now I wanted the refund, my bills not due till the next week and I didnt want to pay it till my next payday which falls before my payment date anyway.

 

I was told I couldnt be refunded as the payment had already been put towards my bill and id just have to get a refund of the credit after paying my bill the next week.

 

My issue is I never authorised this, the payment was sent as part of the early upgrade service it was payment for the early upgrade fee and the handset it was never authorised by me to be used as payment for my bill.

 

EE have just gone ahead and done this without my permission then used that as a reason for not refunding me, I dont see how this is legal to use a payment in a way it wasnt intended without asking esp when the payment is taken as payment for a specific. product and service such as an upgrade.

 

Not happy as not only was my payment used for something not intended by me and without my permission but the woman on the phone in the morning was obviously utterly using me.

 

What I think has happened is ee have sneakily used the fact I made a payment for this upgrade as a way to have me pay my bill off early and just cancelled the upgrade so they can use the payment for this. Obviously very dodgy practise if so!

 

Im just wondering if my misusing my payment in this way ee may have broken any part of their contract, id love to get a bit of revenge by using it as a reason to tear it up.

 

Latest update got in touch with my bank, they say I cant get an indemnity anyway as the payment was by card (so the ee rep was totally using me this morning it appears!) but that the payment is still pending so it shouldnt take any time at all for EE to refund as they can just cancel it.....lets see if they choose to or see if they choose to `keep the money` on my account balance against my will......what they do will decide if I take further action im guessing,

 

EE rep claiming they dont have the ability to cancel a pending payment......utter rubbish! I will be taking this further! luckly ive saved the chat transcripts. anyone else experienced this kind of thing?

Edited by DragonFly1967
Removed "VS" and replaced with v. No other changes made.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I don't know about the legality of EE doing that, but I'd say that if you'd paid that money for a very specific purpose then it should only have been used for that. :|

 

 

So, if the £251 was paid by card, was it Credit or Debit card?

 

If if was a Credit Card, I'd say that this would be a candidate for a S75 claim, or a charge back via your bank if it was a Debit card. Either way you end up with your £251 back :thumb:


We could use your help

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

 

 

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.

 

If I've helped you at all, please feel free to click on the little star under my posts and leave feedback :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thats what im trying to find out, I dont see how they can take a payment, sent to them via their online upgrade service, for the specific purpose of paying for an early upgrade+the handset cost. Cancel the upgrade and use that payment for a general credit on the account putting it towards the monthly bill.

 

I should say as well one more thing [removed] ,

I didnt recieve any notification of any of this,

not the cancelled upgrade,

not the money being put towards my bill

 

 

(which raises red flags as I always get payment conformation emails after making a normal bill payment....why didnt I this time? were they trying to hide the fact theyd used my refund to pay my bill? until I may have noticed when it would have been to late?)

 

 

I only found out the upgrade was even cancelled because I phoned in after nothing came up on the tracking info, but for that id have been waiting for my new handset on friday totally unaware!

 

I want to hassle them over the refund issue though,

I checked with my bank before I contacted ee,

 

 

Not only did they say the payment WAS still pending and could easily just be cancelled for an instant refund into my account but that this is what ee should have done before anything when the order was cancelled, instead I was fobbed off by the woman on the phone and lied to then I had all the rubbish on livechat about `not being able` to cancel a pending payment (when in fact that is very simple and indeed far easier then having to issue a refund if a payment has been fully processed)

 

Im pretty sure if I request a pending payment be cancelled and they refuse to do so and even try to `lie` that it isnt pending (they tried that before I told them my bank had already told me otherwise) they are breaking some kind of banking law here. Im thinking before I make a complaint im going to get natwest to send me a statement of some kind showing exactly when that payment came off pending and was fully processed....and if it shows it was indeed still pending when the ee guy was trying to tell me it wasnt....they will have hell to pay!)

 

On top of that I even told the guy ok then ill take the payment as a straight refund on the upgrade (which it was) they then surly have to comply as even if you have an upgrade youve got 28 days to change your mind for a full refund anyway! and they still refused to saying they couldnt do anything as it had been put on the bill etc. Arent they breaking their own t&c there in terms of that full refund if requested on a new upgrade?

 

I need to look into my contract with ee and banking laws to find out if any rules have been broken here, if they have im going to try my damndest to use that to get out of my contract free of charge. t&c work both ways after all!

 

Anyone got any advice of how to proceed here?

Ive already taken out another contract with a different provider...for one it was a better deal then the upgrade I was after for the same handset and im dumping ee im not at all happy at being treated this way and putting up with it.

 

 

The question is how do I get my refund out of them(rather then just put as a credit on my bill) and I wonder if theyve broken any account t&c if they have im going to try and use that to dump the contract for nothing or at least a reduced fee in exchange for not taking it further.

Edited by dx100uk
swearing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

they have suggested that you get a refund via the DD guarantee or if you paid directly by a single payment then you get the bank to do a recharge.

This should be instant as said so get on with it otherwise they will just run you round in circles.

No law has been broken

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

They told me I could get a refund by a debit indemnity as the woman put it,

I had no idea what this was at the time but she must have seen the payment was by card so she would have known I couldnt get a refund by this method,

 

she also didnt mention the slightest thing about the fact that as I state below the refund had gone onto my account balance she actively told me I had a full refund incoming, the debit indemnity she suggested was a way I could `speed that refund up` she was on the accounts team she would have had my payment info and account balance in front of her, so she lied to me.

 

I was told on livechat that EE couldnt cancel the payment because it was no longer pending.

Id just been on the phone to my bank who told me the payment was pending, ee lied to me on this

 

I was then when informed the csr of this fact that they `didnt have the ability to refund a pending payment`

....that is another lie, as stated a pending payment is easier to sort out then a refund as all they need to do is cancel it.

 

I also did not at any point authorise them to use my upgrade payment as a general credit on my account or put it towards my bill, they claimed id authorised this when I paid by card.....thats another lie as me paying my card for a certain product/service....in this case through the upgrade portal does not authorise them to use that payment for other means.

 

Are you really telling me they can misuse a customers funds without permission, lie about their ability to refund a payment and the status of a payment and refuse to cancel a payment when pending and they havnt broken any laws or banking codes?

 

I will be claiming this payment back in full via a chargeback to my debit card but I will be putting in a full complaint to ee and the ombudsman over this issue, I dont mind systems going wrong and errors being made but I will not tolerate being flat out fobbed off and lied to by a company.

 

I have all the conversation records from the online chats, I have the time and date of the call with the woman who fobbed me off in the morning for them to find the recording of that and im going to get a record from my bank of the fact that the payment was still pending on their system when ee were telling me it wasnt and it couldnt then be refunded so easily. Itll all be going in the complaint, lets see what response I receive.

 

Out of all this all ive found is I really dont want to stay with this company, over this issue within a day theyve gone from me trying to upgrade my phone with them to me using the refund (when I get it) to buy out my contract(after seeing what response my complaint generates) and moving to another network (already signed up to a better deal with vodafone) top work by them on this, way to [removed] and lose a long term customer quickly!

Edited by dx100uk
swearing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yp g top the bank and tell then to reverse the payment. the girl at EE was telling you to do this as EE's own system is clearly pants

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

this is a follow on from this thread https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486209-EE-misusing-payment-without-permission-any-laws-broken-....&p=5110746#post5110746

 

my upgrade was cancelled...all refunded finally after much fighting,

 

ive cancelled the contract concerned with EE because they [removed] and ive gone to vodafone(with a much better deal I might add!)

 

so all was well and good there.....but this morning I got a phone in the post. from ee....the phone that I was meant to be upgrading to with them but said upgrade was cancelled.

 

There is no record of this on my online ee account, no order status, no bill, no charge, nothing.

 

As well as this the phone in question comes with a delivery note that expressively states on it `no payment required` when in fact if it was in relation to that upgrade thats not even true because it was an early upgrade with a fee of £100+ and the handset itself cost £29 under that deal.

i think they've sent me a phone with no link to my ee account, no plan setup for it, no charge requested.....so what are my options?

 

I mean they've sent me a phone not linked to any account, with a note saying `no payment required` so they arent asking any payment of me..

..have I essentially been sent a free phone?

 

Can I keep this?

I mean surly If they flag it up at any point and demand its return I can just refer them to the invoice sent with the package saying no payment was required of me and claim I assumed it was an apology for the poor service id received.

 

I know that sounds stupid but this is the paperwork I've received with the gift is from them officially so does that hold up legally

or? I mean if they've sent me a phone with a document saying no payment is required they cant then later demand payment can they?

 

Dispatch note is below:

form1.pdf

Edited by dx100uk
behave - dx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Threads merged....please keep to one thread per issue.

 

 

Andy


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Threads merged....please keep to one thread per issue.

 

 

Andy

 

Aplogies I started a new thread as the issue im after advice on my rights on is different or though still `related` to the original post as its because of the mess ees upgrade systems are that this has been sent to me I reckon.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

you let them know you have their unsolicited goods and they should make arrangements for its collection. Usually that menas emailing you a returns slip and label to stick on the package. If they do nothing then it is yours after a year

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thing I find strange is on the dispatch note under imei number it is all just blank...nothing in the field at all.....meaning they dont have a record of the imei number of this phone perhaps? if so can I do as I wish with it?

 

they dont even seem to have any record of me having got it is all, no record of it being sent, nothing on the order tracker....no record of it on my account and no payment needed in their own words......and if they dont have it connected to any particular imei number then they cant block it.....what would you do?

 

Im not going to just `send it back` to them unless they request and given the circumstances I dont think they will as it seems to have been sent to me `away from` the system if you know what I mean?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thing I find strange is on the dispatch note under imei number it is all just blank...nothing in the field at all.....meaning they dont have a record of the imei number of this phone perhaps? if so can I do as I wish with it? they dont even seem to have any record of me having got it is all, no record of it being sent, nothing on the order tracker....no record of it on my account and no payment needed in their own words......and if they dont have it connected to any particular imei number then they cant block it.....what would you do? Im not going to just `send it back` to them unless they request and given the circumstances I dont think they will as it seems to have been sent to me `away from` the system if you know what I mean?

 

You seem to want to hear “It is OK, just keep it! (Or, “sell it”), but neither are actually good options.

You had an earlier reply of:

you let them know you have their unsolicited goods and they should make arrangements for its collection. Usually that menas emailing you a returns slip and label to stick on the package. If they do nothing then it is yours after a year

 

I’m not sure it even counts as unsolicited goods. All EE have to do is show it was sent out whilst the order was still active ....

Do the right thing: notify them it has arrived, and hope they don’t ask for it back; otherwise it could be seen as theft.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m not sure it even counts as unsolicited goods. All EE have to do is show it was sent out whilst the order was still active ....

Do the right thing: notify them it has arrived, and hope they don’t ask for it back; otherwise it could be seen as theft.

 

The order wasn't active when the phone was sent out....the upgrade was cancelled the day after it was ordered on 3/4th April and the refund even went into my account at the start of last week.....this phone left ee last thursday according to the dispatch note that is why I say I don't think it could be linked with the upgrade order as that order no longer existed when the phone was sent.

 

Also I have notified them. I contacted them on livechat and asked them to email me to arrange a collection of they wanted me to send the phone back.....I've had no contact and I have a record of me having told them.via the livechat chatlog.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

AS communications companies have an awful reputation for not communicating expect them to write to you at some point in the future. They may even try to restart a contract and collect a dd from you so watch out for all of this. in the meanwhile keep the phone safe in its box in your understairs cupboard or wherever.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
AS communications companies have an awful reputation for not communicating expect them to write to you at some point in the future. They may even try to restart a contract and collect a dd from you so watch out for all of this. in the meanwhile keep the phone safe in its box in your understairs cupboard or wherever.

 

Oh don`t worry its been put in a high cupboard, unopened and just waiting for me to decide what to do with it, I wouldn't worry to much about `restarting` a contract, they cant do that without me legally agreeing to said contracts terms.

 

Im thinking my luck might be in with this, obviously I wont jump the gun and sell it or anything already but if its not linked to my contract, its not linked to any upgrade order (as that had been cancelled and refunded by the time it was even sent to me), its sent to me with a dispatch note saying no payment needed and they dont even appear to have a record of its imei number on the paperwork then I genuinely think this has just slipped through the cracks somehow.

 

I did read something where if you notify the company who have sent you an unrequested item that youve got it and ask them to arrange collection and they dont bother to then its yours after 60 days have passed....is that true?

 

 

Put it this way I wont be making great strides to return it to EE.

its their mistake and considering im still [removed] with them for messing me around over the upgrade in the first place if they want it back they can sort out a courier and all that,

 

 

ive notified them ive got it, that im keeping it safe and that if they want it back they can contact me to arrange collection. pretty sure thats where my responsibility ends here. so the question for me is how long do I wait with them doing nothing before I can safely consider it genuinely as `they arent bothered if they get this back or not I can pretty much use it for my own ends`

Edited by dx100uk
swearing-dx

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you may be on slightly shaky ground on this one. It's not really 'unsolicited goods' as you've had dealings with the company (EE) and did originally order the item. So it cannot be 'unsolicited'.

 

It sounds more like it's been sent to in error. This means that EE *could*, at some point in the future, come after you for payment for the phone, and we'd hate to see that happen.

 

 

Rather than their Live Chat, I would send them a letter (via post with a (free) certificate of posting) as follows. (keep a copy of this for your records and attach the CoP to your copy)

 

 

Dear EE.

 

I have received a package from yourselves which contains a XYZ phone.

 

Whilst this was originally ordered by me as an upgrade to my then account. This upgrade was cancelled on XX/XX/XXXX and the upgrade fee was refunded to me.

 

I have since cancelled my contract(s) with EE and I am no longer an EE customer.

 

Therefore, I require you to arrange collection of your item which I am keeping securely for you within 30 days. If I do not hear from you within 30 days with an arrangement for collection and/or the package is not collected within 60 days, I shall dispose of the item as I see fit.

 

If you want to send me both a sturdy box and a returns label, that would also be acceptable, although I insist that whichever means of postage is chosen that it is fully traceable/recorded as I will not be held responsible if the package is lost in the post.

 

 

Regards

 

 

Mr Ex Customer.


We could use your help

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

 

 

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.

 

If I've helped you at all, please feel free to click on the little star under my posts and leave feedback :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks, I was thinking of writing a letter but that one is a lot better and more professional sounding then anything I could come up with.

 

I wonder about the unsolicited thing though I mean yes I originally requested an upgrade but their systems cancelled that minutes after the order had been placed(because EE systems are amazing obviously lol) , it never even went into `dispatch` mode or the warehouse system if you know what I mean and ive long since been refunded, that contract also no longer exists and the phone itself was sent as something entirely separate with the `no charge required labelling` etc (the original upgrade request cost me an early upgrade fee+30 quid upfront for the handset) its almost as if theyve sent me a phone as if ive ordered a sim free non contract phone, which is definitely nothing requested by me.

 

I think ill take your advice and write them a letter so I have `offline` evidence as well of having told them Ive received the handset and just see what happens then, id love it if I did get to keep it as this things worth about £700-800 new, ive got the phone already now as its the same one I got with my vodafone contract I switched to so id just sell it to make a profit.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Unsolicited (in the case of things like this) is where a company that you've never had any dealings with send you something that you've not ordered, completely out of the blue.

 

Which is why this seems more like a case of 'sent in error', which would mean that EE *could* come after you for payment.

 

 

Obviously if you've given them the chance to come and get the goods and they don't, then I'd say that as long as you've given them a reasonable time frame (and 60 days is more than reasonable), then they've chosen to allow you to keep the goods as a gift. And because you've sent that letter and have proof of postage, they won't have a leg to stand on if, in 12 months time, they decide to try and charge you for it.

 

Which is why it's important that you keep a copy of it and attach the CoP to your copy.


We could use your help

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

 

 

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.

 

If I've helped you at all, please feel free to click on the little star under my posts and leave feedback :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The (other) problem that you might face if you just decided to keep/sell it, is a complaint of theft (by EE to the Police).

 

Paraphrasing slightly, theft is defined as... Dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another in order to permanently deprive.

 

 

So the basic definition of theft would cover it, as you'd be keeping/selling an item that you know you did not order. Which would satisfy the dishonesty, appropriation and deprivation elements.


We could use your help

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

 

 

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.

 

If I've helped you at all, please feel free to click on the little star under my posts and leave feedback :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

omslemming

will you please stop swearing in your posts.


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
The (other) problem that you might face if you just decided to keep/sell it, is a complaint of theft (by EE to the Police).

 

Paraphrasing slightly, theft is defined as... Dishonestly appropriates property belonging to another in order to permanently deprive.

 

 

So the basic definition of theft would cover it, as you'd be keeping/selling an item that you know you did not order. Which would satisfy the dishonesty, appropriation and deprivation elements.

 

How is it theft? ive informed them ive got it, its up to them to arrange to pick it up, simple as, why should I go out of my way to post it back to them based on their mistake? It would be theft if I didnt inform them of the mistake but I already have. If they cannot be bothered to pick it up within the timeframe ive set in the letter ive sent them then thats their issue not mine, ive clearly stated how long im willing to hold it for before disposing of it.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
How is it theft? ive informed them ive got it, its up to them to arrange to pick it up, simple as, why should I go out of my way to post it back to them based on their mistake? It would be theft if I didnt inform them of the mistake but I already have. If they cannot be bothered to pick it up within the timeframe ive set in the letter ive sent them then thats their issue not mine, ive clearly stated how long im willing to hold it for before disposing of it.

 

Please read what I said again. "The (other) problem that you might face if you just decided to keep/sell it"

 

 

You've not done that because you've written (or are writing) to them. But other people may be in a similar situation in the future and read your thread. So it's important to say what might happen if they didn't take the same steps as you have/are.


We could use your help

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

 

 

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.

 

If I've helped you at all, please feel free to click on the little star under my posts and leave feedback :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Please read what I said again. "The (other) problem that you might face if you just decided to keep/sell it"

 

 

You've not done that because you've written (or are writing) to them. But other people may be in a similar situation in the future and read your thread. So it's important to say what might happen if they didn't take the same steps as you have/are.

 

Yes I see that now, sorry my reply should have been worded `in my case` I dont believe this to be theft... because......

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ohh, an early contender for "winning attitude of the month".

 

So, baiting the site team (which I'm not a member of, BTW) over what is and isn't swearing, and saying they can 'just delete (your) account", while arguing with constructive advice from DF, while still saying you want 'advice' (why put ' around the word advice???).

Seems like you just want an argument / to be inflammatory, as well as only wanting validation. You had advice offered, and just because it wasn't what you wanted to hear, throwing teddies out the pram isn't likely to get loads of people queuing up to offer advice that you might find more agreeable, especially as what you seem to want to hear isn't supported by the scenario you describe.......

 

1. I wasnt arguing with DF I worded my response wrong, 2.ive thanked multiple people when given good advice such as the person who worded that potential letter out for me to ee over this issue. 3.if I have someone start getting personal accusing me of `wanting validation` and telling me to go to a fluffier site ill respond in kind....talk like a [removed] to me and ill talk like one back to you.

 

My advice to get my account deleted was based on that the way you were talking I assumed you were a forum mod, when in fact its clear your just a self important asswipe trying to lecture people based on their justified response to your insulting post. HAVE A GREAT DAY PAL! haha :)

 

Mods just delete this thread, ive got the advice I needed out of it anyway and clear im just going to `upset` sensitive snowflakes who cant take me responding to their insults in kind.

Edited by honeybee13
Language

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Off topic posts unapproved...I think we all understand now.....so lets move on.

 

 

Andy


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 600 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...