Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • nothing you can do can product against the very rare judge lottery syndrome.
    • not sure why you added the blue line I've highlighted? that's no in the we gave you.   as for your question... PRAC's roboclaim computer knows when the account was taken out, after all it raised the claim and checked everything carefully first before issuing the request via northants bulk courts equally inept roboclaim computer... 
    • I've been researching in preparation of compiling my particularised defence/WS.    I'm none too happy that some judges still seem to be siding with DCAs and seemingly brushing aside anything that we have assumed to be "necessary" for DCAs to have a winning case.    Reading a recent "summary" from another poster (another thread with case similar to mine - very old, illegible application form, no default notice, reliance on their own software to prove it was ever sent) and the judgment made in favour of the DCA and even suggesting that there was no "agreement with the DCA, they simply owned the debt, not the agreement"  Makes me very nervous.    Especially if cases like this will be judged on "probability" - the probability that if I signed the original application form, then I must have taken out the credit card and racked up the alleged debt as shown in statements enclosed in their WS (and dated some ten years later).   Is it ok to post some "evidence" I've found from elsewhere?    This is in line with my fears that regardless of how hard one tries to rebut the "lack of evidence" produced by DCAs for chasing these very old "alleged" debts, it does appear to come down to the luck of what judge you get on the day and how much they can be swayed by the DCA solicitor.    A quick Google search produced the following - from one case - this related to a credit agreement - which resulted in someone being made bankrupt - that person appealed the bankruptcy order on the grounds of defective credit agreement and default notice and this was the appeal judge's decision:   The necessary formalities for the entry into the regulated consumer credit agreement (which related to the debt in issue) were not complied with; The default notice served in respect of that credit agreement was defective.   The First Ground The Appellant argued that she did not receive the terms and conditions when she entered into the credit agreement and, accordingly, section 61 of the Consumer Credit Act 1974 (“CCA”) had not been complied with and the agreement could not be enforced. The agreement had been entered in 1995 and, whilst it had provided a microfiche copy of the front page of the application, the Respondent had been unable to provide a copy of the terms.   Despite the terms not being produced, the District Judge had found that, in the circumstances, it was very likely that such terms existed and would have been provided to the Appellant when she entered into the Agreement. Mr Justice Mann held that this was a finding that the District Judge was entitled to make.   Further, Mr Justice Mann found that it was implicit from the District Judge’s findings that she considered that the terms and conditions not only existed but had been subscribed to by the Appellant’s signature and, consequently, the requirements of section 61 CCA were fulfilled. Mr Justice Mann held that this was also a justifiable finding which should not be interfered with on appeal.   The Second Ground The Appellant also argued that the default notice upon which the Respondent relied did not comply with the Consumer Credit (Enforcement, Default and Termination Notice) Regulations 1989 because it stated the full balance of the account rather than the total of the missed payments. The Respondent argued that, as a result of the missed payments, it was contractually entitled to the entire balance subject to the service of the appropriate notice, a requirement which was fulfilled by the default notice itself and, consequently, the sum required to remedy the breach was the entire amount.   Mr Justice Mann agreed with the Respondent and the District Judge, holding that: “If by the time the default notice is served circumstances have arisen which entitle the lender to recover not merely sums which might be regarded as arrears, by which I assume is meant accumulated minimum payments, but also the whole of the sum, then they are entitled to claim that sum, and the sum to require to remedy the breach for non-payment of that sum is the payment of the whole sum due. The bank is not confined, at that stage, to claiming merely the amount of arrears if it has an accrued contractual right to have the whole of the sum.”   Do judgments like these not mean that a lot of what you guys do on here (and for which I and many others are VERY grateful) somewhat redundant. What is happening to judges just accepting "well, the terms must have been there if you signed it" -    Feeling quite nervous now.
    • we know it wasn't done to avoid enforcement we understand completely. but that doesn't take from away the fact that it happened   you can't appeal the pcn's on the basis that 'it was not his vehicle to levy upon'. the law clearly states otherwise.          
    • here is a question for you, is yu house divided up into a retail/business area  and domestic area for business rates purposes? If not why on earth are you paying business water rates? ceertainly not for tax purposes as you can claim any legit expense without having to reclassify your home as a business premises. i would be stopping this nonsense and goping back to whatever water supplier is the domestic one for your area. there is stuff all they can do to get the £40 from you whan you do that.
  • Our picks

Wafubloke

Premier Park ANPR PCN BW PAP letter - for Parking and Leaving Markham Retail Park

Recommended Posts

I have received a PCN from Premier Park at the Markham Retail Park from November 2017 for Parking and Leaving Site.

 

I'd gone to Pizza Hut and my son had nipped into JYSK.

I received a letter a week later.

At no point did an attendant speak to me (not sure there was one) and all I got was a letter with a couple of photographs on it.

 

I responded to their first letter explaining what I had done and that their claim was erroneous and without merit.

Got a reply a week ago saying my appeal had been rejected.

Just replied to that saying that if they write to me again (unless notifying me its been rescinded) I will consider it harassment.

 

Quiet prepared to go all the way with this.

I take it I just ignore everything from now on unless its from a lawyer or court?

 

Thanks in advance.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

For future reference come and ask for advice first rather than putting your foot in it by responding to their letter,

you have now made most of the POFA irrelevant

whereas if you had said nothing at the time you would be walking all over them when they started making demands.

 

As it is a different company then you can do something useful,

get photographs of all of the signs at the retail site that are anything to do with parking.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have received a PCN from Premier Park at the Markham Retail Park from November 2017 for Parking and Leaving Site.

 

I'd gone to Pizza Hut (which turns out to be part of another retail park) and my son had nipped into JYSK.

 

I received a PCN letter a week later. At no point did an attendant speak to me (not sure there was one) and all I got was a letter with a couple of photographs on it.

 

I responded to their first letter explaining what I had done and that their claim was erroneous and without merit.

 

Got a reply a week ago saying my appeal had been rejected.

 

Just replied to that saying that if they write to me again (unless notifying me its been rescinded) I will consider it harassment.

 

Quiet prepared to go all the way with this.

 

I take it I just ignore everything from now on unless its from a lawyer or court?

 

Thanks in advance.

 

 

 

.

F89E2C64-44D7-4B41-BED9-1F60606A860F.jpeg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

opps you shouldn't have done that

you've removed your POFA rights by ID'ing you were the driver...

 

can you complete this please

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

need to see the letter you got a week later to determine if they have any right to claim from anyone so no need to think about paying up yet.

 

Also no judge will think that leaving the site is provable, what do the employees of the parking co do? follow everyone around and break the DPA and the requirements of registration for the company and individual with the SIA or justy make thigs up.

 

However, anyone reading this post should learn something

- dont be your own worst enemy by writing to these muppets and tell them that you did do anything.

It must be understood, they have no legal way of collecting any evidence so whatever they say on the matter is irrelevent, only YOU can drop yourselves in it so dont.

 

In the OP's case there is no compulsion for all of the occupants to consider the contract so if your son went to a shop and that was the purpose of this visit then that is enough and the driver is acting as the "servant" otherwise no taxi co could even enter the land and as they dont have a bloke on a barrier to quiz people.

Also VCS v Ibbotson says that such a restriction is nonsense and unenforceable

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi

My opinion only! This site is in Chesterfield (found after some searching). Markham Retail Park is on one side and Ravenside is the other. One side has JYSK as well as SCS. The other side has HobbyCraft, B&M and many others. The HobbyCraft site is controlled by Euro Car Parks and the JYSK is controlled by Premier.

 

The signs on the approach indicate the turning into Markham retail Park but nothing else. It doesn't say that the site on the other side is NOT part of the same retail park. In fact, there is signage further along the Markham Road and at the 'proper' entrance to Ravenside so how is the average member of the public expected to know.

 

The other thing is the fact that your son did use the store on the site. What were you expected to do? Go with him? Stay in the car? I think it's perfectly reasonable to walk elsewhere to get something to eat.


If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I’m going to copy the letter tomorrow and up load it (after redacting) and fill in the form in the link too.

 

In a way I had to admit to being on the site as ‘my” car is in fact a company car and they wanted to deduct the charge from my wages so I fezzed up.

 

Thanks for your replies so far.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Hi

My opinion only! This site is in Chesterfield (found after some searching). Markham Retail Park is on one side and Ravenside is the other. One side has JYSK as well as SCS. The other side has HobbyCraft, B&M and many others. The HobbyCraft site is controlled by Euro Car Parks and the JYSK is controlled by Premier.

 

The signs on the approach indicate the turning into Markham retail Park but nothing else. It doesn't say that the site on the other side is NOT part of the same retail park. In fact, there is signage further along the Markham Road and at the 'proper' entrance to Ravenside so how is the average member of the public expected to know.

 

The other thing is the fact that your son did use the store on the site. What were you expected to do? Go with him? Stay in the car? I think it's perfectly reasonable to walk elsewhere to get something to eat.

 

True, its very confusing and you make valid points.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
I’m going to copy the letter tomorrow and up load it (after redacting) and fill in the form in the link too.

 

In a way I had to admit to being on the site as ‘my” car is in fact a company car and they wanted to deduct the charge from my wages so I fezzed up.

 

Thanks for your replies so far.

 

there no law that says they can do that..


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

1 Date of the infringement 27th November 2017

 

2 Date on the NTK 22nd December 2017

 

3 Date received 24th December 2017

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] Can't see it

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yup, attached above

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] Yes

 

"Without prejudice

 

Reference:

Date of issue: 27 Nov 2017

Vehicle registration:

 

 

Dear Sir/ Madam,

I am writing to formally challenge the above Parking Charge Notice.

 

On 27 Nov 2017 my vehicle was issued with a Parking Charge Notice for the reason of Parking and leaving site.

 

In accordance with the Road Traffic Act 1991, my challenge is on the basis that the contravention did not occur. I parked my car inside an allocated parking bay and left the car park approximately an hour later. I took my son for a birthday lunch at Pizza Hut and at no point did I leave the site.

 

For this reason I look forward to receiving notification within 28 days that the Parking Charge Notice has been cancelled.

 

Yours faithfully,"

 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] Yes, attached above

 

My response:

 

"Without prejudice

 

Reference:

Date of issue: 27 Nov 2017

Vehicle registration:

 

 

Dear Sir/ Madam,

I am writing in response to your letter dated 22nd January 2018 ref Parking Charge Notice.

 

On 27 Nov 2017 my vehicle was issued with a Parking Charge Notice for the reason of Parking and leaving site.

 

In accordance with the Road Traffic Act 1991, my challenge is on the basis that the contravention did not occur. I parked my car inside an allocated parking bay and left the car park approximately an hour later. I took my son for a birthday lunch at Pizza Hut and my son popped into JYSK and at no point did I leave the site.

 

For this reason I look forward to receiving notification within 28 days that the Parking Charge Notice has been cancelled. If I receive any future communication aside from a withdrawal letter from either yourselfs or your agents I will be regard it as harassment.

 

 

Yours faithfully,"

 

 

 

7 Who is the parking company? Premier Park

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] : Markham Retail Park, Chesterfield

 

Hope the works.

parking.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another vague opinion!

 

The signage on site does not differentiate between driver and passenger. The passenger used the store on site so (IMOP) that would negate the signage.

 

PP also state that Markham Retail Park have no option to intervene in parking matters. If that is the case, who is the landowner? I would imagine that JYSK may be able to inform you of who the landowner is OR PP is lying and stores CAN intervene on behalf of their customers. The original NTK didn't show any information about PoFA 2012. Was there something on the reverse?

 

You have done yourself no favours by naming yourself as the driver but I do understand the reasons behind it as it was a company car. I would ask your bosses to consider passing any NTK over to you and not to reply to any PRIVATE parking company in the future.

 

IF it is the case that the first letter has not mentioned PoFA 2012 then they shouldn't be allowed to rely on it in any subsequent letters.


If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

My bad, this is the back of the original letter.

back.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

OK your response now marks you down as a mug for several reasons.

 

Using the term "without prejudice" in an inappropriate place and quoting the RTA when it doesnt apply are the 2 that will leap out at them.

You also then continued to shot yourself in the other foot by offering a mitigation when all this does is drop you in it deeper.

 

Now you have to read up on contract law as it is used in parking to start to understand why they dont have a claim.

You have been pointed to a couple of good cases that are relevant and also to info on the signage.

 

If the land on the development is contiguous (owend by the same entity) then you havent left it, even if these bandits dont operate in the other car park.

That is one of the reasons they are trying to chisel you out of money but that will also be part of their undoing.

 

You will be complaining to the landlord when this is over an they are usually disinterested in such matters but wont want to lose tenants and tenants need customers but no-one needs parking cowboys so it will make a difference if you word that letter correctly

Edited by honeybee13
Paras

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply.

 

I’m confused, which cases have I been pointed to?

 

Something I’ve just thought of.

 

The photographs are taken by a person on site, so shouldn’t that person have tried to stop me from “leaving” the site or at least inform me that I was leaving?

Edited by dx100uk
merge

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well no

they wont then be able to con people out of money if they do.

 

we see p'haps 0.01% of people that get these speculative invoices here

the rest think they are fines and they must pay them or be taken to court.

silly really...

 

oh and redo your scan as a PDF please so we can zoom

read upload


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

VCS v Ibbotson is the leading persuasive case for this.

 

What you say about the person with the camers is called "mitigating your losses"

 

so yes, they are obliged to tell you but then if they did how are they going to rip you off?

 

The point about this is that it is rarely raised in an appeal and when it is the parking co's ignore it and just state that you entered a contract as though their word is the final arbiter on the law.

 

Thanks for the reply.

 

I’m confused, which cases have I been pointed to?

 

Something I’ve just thought of.

 

The photographs are taken by a person on site, so shouldn’t that person have tried to stop me from “leaving” the site or at least inform me that I was leaving?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I received this yesterday (great timing the dad after my dad passed away).

 

I take it I just ignore it?

 

in fact what options do I have?

 

Sorry I just don't have the capacity or time right now to spend any time on this.

DRpletter1.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Continue to ignore.

DRP are just another "step in the chain" of trying to scare you into paying / entering into "letter tennis" with them.

For instance, their language is debatable.

 

a) They say "If we don't hear from you, we'll take it to mean you agree you are liable for it". THEY may take it to mean that, but YOU don't have to, and a court likely won't, either! (as they can't impose a new unilateral contract or obligation).

 

b) They quote the Beavis case. They say "The Supreme Court ruled the parking charge was lawful".

This is indeed true, the Supreme Court ruled THAT specific parking charge lawful....... that doesn't mean the Supreme Court ruled ALL parking charges lawful, only those that arise with the same circumstances. If you can show different circumstances, it can be argued that the Beavis ruling then doesn't automatically make THAT parking charge lawful ....

 

I bet some of the regulars here will be able to tell you what letters to expect, and within what timescale.

When they are exposed as a predictable sequence of events threatening "I'll huff, and I'll puff, and I'll blow your house down", they'll become a lot less scary.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for your reply, appreciate it. I’ll just sit tight and wait for their next letter.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There is also case law dating back nearly 2 centuries that cover the "we will assume you are laible if you dont respond" type argument and it doesnt support thier claim

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Another letter to ignore?

 

Final chance to pay, then what?

IMG_2687.pdf

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Until/unless you received

A letter of/before claim you ignore everything


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

then they will stop writing to you because these clowns are paid to do just that. they cant do anything else as they ahve no interest in the matter.

Yiou have to read more threads to get an understanding so apart from parking thread look at DCA's in Debt

 

 

Another letter to ignore?

 

Final chance to pay, then what?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...