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Barclays additions plus and overdraft daily fees

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Hi,

 

I am currently going through the ombudsman stage, in demanding repayment of account fees for additions 2000(?) - 2004, additions plus 2004-2012 and no 'downgraded' current account with overdraft of £1, 700 and daily fees of 0.75p and £1.50 depending of if the overdraft is 0-£700 or £700 to £1,700.

 

I have complained regularly over the years to Barclays but only had occassional fees reversed.

The package account fees at worst were £192.00 per annum by 2012, whether in credit or not.

 

In 2008 Barclays imposed a £1000 reserve with paid transaction fees on top of a pre-existing overdraft of £700.

I complained about this at the time, but was initially told I needed to have it.

 

At this time I had £20,000 in savings with Barclays and had more than £2,000 in credit and there was no reason for them to add this to the account from my point of view. Later when I went into debt on the current account I was charged multiple £22.00 paid transaction fees, when over the £700 limit.

 

In 2014 The resolve loan was automatically converted to an overdraft facility with daily fees, which I didn't agree.

I wasn't adequately informed of this change.

 

In financial year 2014-2015, I was charged more than £450 in daily fees over one year and since then the annual cost in fees have been similarly high despite little use of the account. In 2015 I made only 3 withdrawls and have made no withdrawls since 2016.

 

Last year, 2017, Barclays offered a resolve loan with no fees and monthly payments (after turning me down for a hardship loan) on the basis that I showed that I could manage to pay 3 installments of £150.00 per month in May, Jun and July.

 

I did this and Barclays did not charge the daily fees for these 3 months and at the end of July I was sent a letter stating that now I had completed the 3 payments

"I still needed to get my account back in order"

and I could "pay in [full] at any branch" etc.

 

the outstanding amount of arrears; which I had reduced to £1,413.

There was no mention of the original resolve loan and the letter made no sense because the loan had been the purpose of making the regular payments in the first place.

 

I felt let down by this and didn't know what to do, as I felt it was Barclays duty to fulfil their part regarding the resolve loan, which was at their instigation in any case.

 

The grinding daily fees were reapplied in August,

in December 2017 I received a letter saying that my balance was £1,596.44DR and that they 'recently' wrote requesting a payment.

 

On 22nd Jan '18 I received another letter stating that my current account was overdrawn by £1,644.44 and that my 'agreed' overdraft limit was £10.00 and thus I was over any 'agreed' overdraft limit, still no mention of the resolve loan.

 

I phoned Barclays on the 9th Feb 2018 to question this and make a complaint, which I did.

I also complained about the packaged account fees between 2000 and 2012.

 

I was given a complaint reference number and told that someone 'could' get back to me within 48 hours.

Hearing nothing, I phoned again on the 16th and was told that my complaint had been closed I was put on hold for about 20 minutes twice before someone got back to me to say that it hadn't been closed but that it had a new reference number due to a migration of systems.

 

I sent a letter of complaint to Leicester customer services and copied it to the Cheif Exec at HQ London.

I phoned later to demand an acknowledgement of the complaint.

 

This took some time I was sent a letter saying that my packaged account claim was being investigated and they split the complaint into two periods (for the same account no.).

 

I later received a phone call from a customer services manager admitting fault re: the resolve loan and repayment of all fees since I used the account in 2016 and £544.25 in refunded daily fees and £140.69 for my inconvenience (over 20 yrs).

 

After everything that has happened with Barclays over the years I refused to accept this but insisted that the manager put this in writing.

A week later I received a letter confirming this and saying that their investigation of this (the non-packaged time) was now complete and I had a right to go to the ombudsman.

 

I phoned the ombudsman but was told I couldn't complain yet about the packaged bank account because Barclays had not yet completed their investigation but that I could complain re: the recent period. Now I am not sure what will happen with the ombudsman but it's already taking weeks with 'out of office' replies to my emails and when I phoned Barclays they will not speak to me.

 

Can (and should) I go to small claims for negligence?

Edited by dx100uk
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what documentation have you?

 

it might be wise to send them an SAR too.

 

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Yes, an SAR is always a very good place to start. You should get this off straightaway.

 

I haven't understood your story completely yet because it seems rather complicated so I'll try to understand it gently through the day. However you ask about going to the Small Claims Court for negligence – and the answer is that if you did decide to sue your bank then you would bring the action for breach of contract or else under BCOBS

 

BCOBS is the very best. It is hugely powerful. BCOBS regulations have been in force since 2009 although scarcely anyone has used them yet. However there have been signs that when the banks think that a BCOBS action may be brought, that they come to heel very quickly.

 

Read up about the BCOBS regulations and send the SAR. Monitor the thread for responses and keep engaged with this thread please.

Edited by slick132
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what documentation have you?

 

it might be wise to send them an SAR too.

 

gather everything then re group with our help .

 

Hi, I have about 95% of statements and correspondence going back to 2008 and some earlier and statements from 2003, more I can't find so I sent a SAR registered recorded to the Data Protection Unit in Knutsford last week.

 

The total of daily 'usage' fees since 2014 amounts to the amount of the overdraft. I have recent letters regarding the sending of a form to fill in about the packaged bank account claim. The first two of these (the same letter) implies that the sending of a form is not really necessary and did not include a form.

 

I was then resent another cover letter with a 'copy' of these original letters. However, the 'copy' was not a copy but had 3 paragraphs added on the second page that were not in the original. The cover letter refers to the original and states that a form had been sent with the original - but it hadn't and there was no mention of any enclosures on the original.

 

One of these added paragraphs includes a request to return the form (I hadn't been sent) within 7 days. However, because it was a purported copy and was sent long after the 7 days, this would have been impossible since I didn't have the form.

 

When I phoned the packaged bank accounts team about this they said they would put it down to a 'typo'.

 

More recently they sent this letter again with a copy of the form which I completed and asked them to read it conjunction with my complaint letter.

 

Thanks for that, I will keep posting.

 

I hope it will be sorted by the ombudsman but I'm not holding my breath, don't really know what the status of my account is at the moment and will look into the BCOBS info.

 

Barclays have made it more difficult for me to pay off the overdraft more than once and I'm not keen on accepting their offer, which they put a time limit on in any case.

 

In their letter regarding this offer, they state that I didn't opt out of the reserve in 2008, though I remember complaining as it wasn't wanted or needed and in 2014 they converted this 'reserve' into a larger overdraft whilst I was overdrawn (this was done, fait accompli, by Barclays when they moved to a daily fee structure and was not agreed with me).

 

Although not used at all since 2016 and hardly at all since 2014, the representative at Barclays stated that my account was generally 'well maintained'.

Edited by dx100uk
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Hi ah and welcome to CAG

 

When you post, please use paragraph spacing.

 

Solid blocks of text are difficult to read and folk will miss important info, or even lose interest.

 

Thanks :-)


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Hi,

 

Thanks for that.

 

You are right. I will use paragraph spacing.

 

Is there any way I can edit my posts?

Edited by dx100uk
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not after 10 mins no sorry.


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I'm still trying to get a handle on exactly what your complaint is about.

 

It would be helpful if you could post up a copy of the complaint which you have sent to the ombudsman. Maybe you could also post up a copy of Barclays final response. The final response letters from banks often distort the complaint or dilute it so it would be helpful if you post up their letter and then give us some comments as to whether you think the final response fully reflects your complaint or in what way does it misrepresent it


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Yes, I could do that - I have scanned images of the letters but am not sure how to post them.

My letter is 6 pages long.

 

The 'final response' ("we have finished our investigation") si dated 06/03/2018 and says

"I have spoken to our collections and recoveries team who have place a contact hold on your account for 30 days.

Should you wish to accept our offer please call me on .......

and I can arrange for the necessary paperwork to be issued."

 

There is quite a lot of information in both letters, so I'll post them when I know how.

 

The first part of the letter 'About your complaint' says "You are unhappy with the charges applied to your account for using your overdraft.

You state that you never asked for the personal reserve facility, and therefore feel the charges should be refunded".

 

The next part describes the setting up of the personal reserve in 2008, but does destort the events to some extent.

 

I include here the part that covers the recent period for clarity.

 

"Based on my findings, and the fact that the charges have been applied in line with your account terms and conditions, I am unable to agree with this aspect of your complaint or your request for all charges to be refunded"

 

- I am not asking for all charges, but 'daily usage fees' from 2014 and additions account fees.

 

"As part of my investigation into your complaint.

I noted that back in 2017 a repayment plan was agreed with our Collections and Recoveries Team.

The agreement was for payments of £150.00 to me made for three months, and if the plan was successfully completed we would then arrange for the remaining overdrawn balance to be transferred to a Resolve Loan"

 

"I confirmed that the plan was successfully completed, but as we failed to record the plan correctly, no Resolve Loan was set up, meaning your account remained overdrawn incurring further charges. I'm truly sorry for any inconvenience this may have caused."

 

"To rectify the matter I offered to credit your account with £544.25, being all charges that have debited your account since October 2016, this being the date you last actively used your account. Given the inconvenience this matter has I offered to credit a further £140.69 to your account. This would reduce the outstanding balance to £1,000 (£1,684.94 - £544.25 - £140.69 =£1000)"

 

"As we initially agreed to transfer your outstanding balance to a Resolve Loan, I offered to transfer the remaining £1,000 balance to a Resolve Loan"

 

"You were unhappy with our proposal as you felt the debt should be written off entirely. As this was not an option, I agreed to put our proposal in writing."

 

The additions packaged bank period is being treated separately by Barclays and I have not had a final response yet.

 

I am also still waiting for a response from the ombudsman investigator who is out of the office until the 9th of April. I asked her to contact me on 28th March for an update as she said she would have received documentation from Barclays by then, but haven't had a response regarding that.

 

Any thoughts on all of this and what rights I have would be appreciated. I think there are some serious breaches of lending code at minimum.

 

Can I upload letters and what is the best method for this?

Edited by dx100uk
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Can I upload letters and what is the best method for this?

 

Click the word upload


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I'm still trying to get a handle on exactly what your complaint is about.

 

It would be helpful if you could post up a copy of the complaint which you have sent to the ombudsman. Maybe you could also post up a copy of Barclays final response. The final response letters from banks often distort the complaint or dilute it so it would be helpful if you post up their letter and then give us some comments as to whether you think the final response fully reflects your complaint or in what way does it misrepresent it

 

Hi,

 

This is my original complaint letter.

banklettercopyforcag1.pdf

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I have started to look through your six-page letter. I have to say that it is pretty wordy. I have set out some of the points below and asked you a few questions about evidence et cetera.

 

Please could you respond in a fairly brief manner.

 

So looking at your letter, I gather that your complaints in respect of the package account issues are: –

 

  1. Conversion of your ordinary free account to a package account costing initially 5 pounds per month and which has been progressively increased without any consultation with you.
     
  2. You tried to object and you were told that the account was necessary that this was the only way to have an affordable overdraft.
  3. You are not aware of the features of the package account other than there was a £250 interest-free overdraft facility.
  4. However it seems that the account included some kind of insurance which you did not require and in any event were inappropriate. (Please can you tell us about the insurance and how it was inappropriate)
  5. the bank staff represented the insurance features as being “freebies”.
     
  6. You understood that the monthly fee was “an account fee” and you have written evidence of this. (Please can you post up this evidence – one short document will be fine)
  7. another product included in the package account may have been “identity theft protection” and also “car payment protection”. Also car breakdown cover which was subsequently removed. (Have you any written evidence that these were included in the package please).
  8. You did not have a car so you would not have been able to use the breakdown insurance anyway. You have always taken out your own travel insurance when travelling abroad. You have been a member of the AA or of the RAC and so you had your own separate insurance and breakdown cover.
  9. For about three years you were working abroad and so the insurance features were of no use.
  10. Similarly, insurance within the EU was not needed.
  11. He did not need mobile phone cover
  12. you try to complain about it but you were told that you could not change the type of bank account and that if you did it would be more expensive (do you have evidence of this)
  13. you are given no advanced notice of fee increases
  14. there was no attempt by Barclays to discover whether the insurance products where appropriate – in keeping with Barclays selling practices to their customers generally

 

I haven't gone through the rest of the complaint yet and frankly it's not very easy. I can certainly imagine the Barclays staff rolling up their eyes. I imagine they get huge of correspondence like this and I'm afraid it is unhelpful to anybody.

 

Am I right to say that your complaint falls broadly under two heads: –

 

  1. Mis-selling of a packaged account
  2. overdraft issues

 

I'm trying desperately to reduce this to its nuts and bolts so that we can start to understand what is going on because at the moment I'm afraid it's a bit like trying to wander through treacle


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Hi,

 

Thanks for the reply, I appreciate what you are doing. If I get this sorted out I will donate to CAG.

 

Sorry if it's wordy but then I had make the calculations by adding up each monthly statement total incoming/outgoing etc.

 

One of of the points that is worth emphasizing is that Barclays do not communicate CLEARLY regarding changes to customer accounts. This has happened to me on 3 occasions at least.

 

1) 2000 - Change to additions:

 

I did not realise that I would be paying a monthly fee (when in credit) until I received a statement that was copied to Poland, in 2001

 

 

2) 2008 - Providing me with a 'reserve facility' of £1000.

 

This was done without my agreement, or advance warning, when I was thousands of pounds in credit having received an inheritance in 2008 (as an opt out only, and I complained on the phone at the time), I had no need to borrow any money. I saw no reason why they would do this. It had never happened before.

 

3) 2012 - Downgrading of account to 'ordinary account'.

 

I was surprised when this happened

 

4) 2014 - Change to 'ordinary account' with 'daily fees'

 

I have the 2014 'letter' (which looks like a flyer from Barclaycard), I did not read it until the summer and after the fees had started, I immediately complained by telephone. I get flyers from Barclaycard but I don't have a Barclaycard so I don't read them. It is NOT a standard letter

 

I look at my statements and letters regularly. Every time these changes were made the communications were NOT clear.

 

etc.

 

I have some evidence for most of the points on your list and am awaiting data from a SAR. I will keep you updated. Are Barclays able to do anything with an account when a dispute with them is ongoing?

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I'm sorry but I have marked out certain questions in blue and I'm not aware that you have dealt with them.

 

It would be really helpful if you would answer my question specifically.

 

Also I've asked you for sight of the final response which you have received from Barclays – and you haven't put it up.

 

Also, can you tell us where in the process you are with the ombudsman?

 

Have you written a letter to the ombudsman? What evidence have you supplied?


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Hi,

 

1) The investigator stated that the initial fee in 2000 was £6.50.

However I did not have the statements for this period and remembered it being £5.00.

He told me that this was an overdraft fee from before the additions account.

It is possible that I had a 'graduate additions' account in the late 1990's but I am awaiting this data from Barclays.

 

2) This certainly happened

 

3) These were presented as freebies (extras).

I was told at some point that the benefit was a cheaper overdraft facility.

 

5) Yes

 

4)

 

Questions in blue:

 

4)

a. I did not realise I was paying for insurance

 

b. I have since learned that any insurance provided wouldn't have covered my when in Poland (since it was only in the process of joining the European Union)

 

c. I have since learned about a 30 days travel insurance that I think was included.

However I was living and working in Poland and I think this only covered the EU at the time.

 

d. I travelled in Europe in 2009 by myself and used Worldnomads insurance.

I have the statements with the payments.

Also when I travelled with family in Canada and Australia and New Zealand in 2010 for 9 months we had separate travel insurance.

I did not consider Barclays insurance to be any use ever and simply resented being made to pay for it.

 

e. Mobile phone - I have never claimed any type of mobile phone insurance.

 

f. Barclays did not bill me annually, unlike other insurance providers.

There was no written contracts with these insurers.

I did not understand how I could have been paying for it.

 

g. The initial 'account' fee of £5.00/6.50 did not seem like a normal insurance payment.

For example, I had Nat West Home insurance between 1993 and 2003 (including contents), but that made sense because I had a mortgage with Nat West bank at the same time.

If I need insurance I try to get it for the speficific thing I need it for.

 

6) I will send a scan in next post.

 

7) At the moment this is described as part of additions plus features on a page I have.

Whether it was necessary to register for this or not I do not know.

I had separate card payment protection insurance from cardguard on an HSBC account in 2010.

I do not know if I was paying for this through Barclays.

The additions plus fee in 2012 was £16.00.

 

7)I have the annual summary statement for the additions plus version of my account in 2012 which has benefits on the final page.

However, this information was not provided to me initially and seems to vary from year to year.

All seem to require some form of registration which I did not do because I did not need these things, such as gadget, cardholder protection, extended warranty, marketmaster, will-writing, legal and tax helpline.

 

Worldwide family travel cover is mentioned on the statement but was not valid unless registered with a medical team and was not appropriate in any case.

Neither myself or wife ever do wintersports.

 

RAC breakdown cover was included automatically in that year but I also had AA breakdown cover so I did not need it.

I have a statement with this payment.

I will scan this document with the other.

 

As I stated I was not interested in the features which I did not realise I was paying for because these features (as I learned later) were all rolled into one "account fee".

All of my monthly statements use the term "account fee" for this specific transaction.

 

12) I have not recorded all phone conversations, but I remember this argument was used by staff at Barclays when I attempted to change my account back to a graduate type of account; without additions.

I was told it was not worth my while and my 'older type of account' was obsolete and too expensive.

 

Most of my complaints have been over the telephone.

I have rarely written complaints but I have a reply regarding my complaint about failure of the bank to make a payment to a supermarket home delivery service due to fraud protection systems.

This was ridiculous because it was a payment we made and which was commonly made from our account.

There were funds for this.

 

Barclays were extremely high handed about this because this was our Christmas shopping delivery, we received no compensation for this, but I still have their reply.

 

I stated my complaint over the telephone to the ombudsman (investigator) then posted my letter of complaint and Barclays 'we have completed our investigation' letter, however she didn't seem very interested in receiving my complaint letter; which I thought was a little odd.

She said she could get all the documentation from them.

 

I appreciate your help.

Edited by dx100uk
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We are just trying to deal with the issue of the mis-selling of the packaged account at the moment.

 

I'm afraid that the way that you have posted your complaints so far and also the six-page letter that you have provided makes me anxious that the ombudsman has a rather garbled mishmash of complaints and so it won't be dealt with properly.

 

I need to know when you brought this before the ombudsman. I also think you should phone the FOS tomorrow using the reference number they gave you and ask for copies of all the correspondence they have on this matter. Tell them if they won't let you have it then you are going to send them an SAR immediately.

 

Tell them that there is important additional information you need to give them and that you are going to be writing to them to clarify certain issues.

 

Then I suggest that you separate the issues and deal with the mis-selling of the packaged account first of all.

 

You shouldn't raise your expectations too high of the ombudsman. There are extremely poor and I am starting to understand that a lot of their staff are barely experienced. I suppose that the FOS is under resourced – but unfortunately people don't understand that when they start bringing their complaints.


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Hi,

 

I raised a complaint with the ombudsman on March the 12th.

I have not had any new information since then.

I will try to post scanned letters tomorrow.

 

I have some scanned but don't seem to be able to open scanned images in Adobe to convert to PDF, but should be able to figure that out.

I will also have to scan statements etc, so hopefully tomorrow as well.

 

I will phone FOS tomorrow and see what I can find out.

I have sent a SAR to Barclays so hopefully they will send me their records too.

 

Thanks, phoning them sounds like a good idea.

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If you only contact them about this on 12 March then I expect that not very much has happened so far and they won't have received anything from the bank.

 

I think it would be a good idea to call them and to ask them if you could have a copy of their summary of your complaint. Also I suggest that you tell them that you think you have presented to them in a rather confused way and you would like to restate the complaint and would it be possible for them to put it on hold for a couple of weeks while you do that.

 

I think it is very important to try and get a summary of the complaint from them.


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Hi,

 

Here are letters scanned so far

 

1) April - 2017 Letter re 3 payments (set up for resolve loan purpose by phone earlier)

2) July - 2017 Letter of successful completion of 3 payments - no mention of resolve loan

3) Feb - 2018 Investigation letter - some history re OD facility, daily fees, compensation

 

Hopefully with the bits I missed before now deleted

 

I phoned after the April letter because I was concerned that they hadn't mentioned the resolve loan and was told not to worry and it would be set up on completion. Then I received the letter in July. The daily fees were simply reapplied for a further 6 months, until I complained.

docs1.pdf

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thread tidied

pdf's merged

 

 

Thanks for merging the docs.

 

Any comments on this would be appreciated.

 

Note: the fact that there was supposed to be a resolve loan set up in 2017 is only mentioned in writing in 2018.

Over the telephone, this was presented to me as an alternative to a hardship loan for which I narrowly missed their criteria (after providing a large amount of personal information), at the time.

 

I didn't believe that they were genuinely serious about giving me a hardship loan and their letters indicate that they were also not really serious about giving me a resolve loan.

 

I have no reason to trust that they would honour their offer, even if I was prepared to accept it.

Edited by dx100uk
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Hi,

 

I attach 2009 statment with 'account fee' of £16.00. This is the same on all statements and is printed on all the statements I have for each month since I have had an 'additions' account.

 

Also attached are scans of 2011/12 annual statements which show which features were supposed to be included. I did not ask for these and was not aware I had been paying for them.

docs2.pdf

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I noticed you have viewed the following.....the procedure for reclaiming Package Charges.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?459427-Reclaim-Packaged-Current-Accounts-Deal-Fees

 

Andy


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Hi,

 

I had no idea what I was paying for when I first realised there was a fee on my account when I was in credit.

Something I hadn't experienced before.

 

Barclays sent me some information (especially latterly), but the fee was presented as an 'account fee'.

I did not have time to make sense of these 'features' and did not understand them because previously there had never been anything provided with my account by third parties.

 

It was after the account was altered ('upgraded') that I became aware of these features, but did not think that the fee was for these features until much (years) later.

Edited by dx100uk
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Then follow the above and start a claim.


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thread tidied

2nd set of single page PDFs merged


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MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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