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thanks again bookworm !

 

my gut feeling is nintendo would be sympathetic to it and do it FOC....but they have no stock of pinks, that is the delay.

 

i have the letters ready to post with wording simply as

 

"

I wish to get this unit repaired under my statutory rights, free of charge.

The burden of proof is on you, the trader, to prove this is not a manufacturing fault.

Please respond to my complaint within 7 days.

"

 

should i amend that to make reference to the fact that nintendo have said there's a 6-8 week delay on pink machines, and given that, i'd like a refund or them to replace it with a new machine of another colour or ?

 

would like to catch today's post as want this sorted out ASAP with TrU, but just want to say the right thing in the letter

 

what do you think is best to do ?

 

(alternatively, i could send the unit back to nintendo myself and say if they have no pinks to replace with another colour....but then TrU have got away scot-free)

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Yes, absolutely refer to that. This way, they can't wait 7 days, THEN say awww sorry, we just found out that there's a long wait, or worse, get you to bring the unit in, THEN tell you... Cynical, moi? :rolleyes:

 

Do NOT send it to Nintendo yourselF! I'll say this once more: YOU-DO-NOT-HAVE-A-CONTRACT-WITH-NINTENDO!!!!

It is up to TrU to deal with it in the way that least inconveniences you, the customer who paid large amounts of cash for a crappy item that breaks after a few weeks. :mad:

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thanks.

 

ok, is this letter wording ok in that case

 

"

I wish to get this unit repaired under my statutory rights, free of charge.

The burden of proof is on you, the trader, to prove this is not a manufacturing fault.

Having spoken to Nintendo, they have informed me there is currently a 6-8 week delay on repairing/replacing pink Nintendo DS units. Given this is an unacceptable timescale, I therefore wish to get the unit replaced or refunded under my statutory rights.

"

or should i lose the last 'under my statutory rights' bit ?

thanks

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..and to add....i've spoken to nintendo and they haven't accepted a fault with hinges (there's a surprise!). apparently they will look at these issues sensitively and either swap the unit out FOC (they don't repair these hinges apparently) or charge £25 to do it.

 

but they waiting list for pink units is 6-8 weeks :(

 

hmm.......

 

Bloomin' cheek of Nintendo!!! Beats me, though, how can you look at a broken hinge "sensitively"!! Either it's bust, or it ain't!!! No if's, no but's!

 

Other than that though, Bookworm's absolutely right, 6-8 weeks is totally unacceptable (especially at this time of year) for a repair that they might or might not do. Equally, if they want to try charging £25 I would suggest that it's up to TrUs to stand this and not you, the customer.

 

Maybe it's time to get somewhat 'heavier' with TrUs over the 'small matter' of the law!!! If 'twer me in this situation I would ask for a full refund or a replacement of equal standing (providing always that my little girl would accept that too!).

Jimbo 44 - always happy to help, but always willing to learn from being corrected too!!! Whilst any advice given may be based upon personal experience, please always be sure you seek guidance from a professional in the particular field.

 

Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark, but a large group of professionals built the Titanic.

 

A 'click' on the scales is always appreciated if I have helped. Many Thanks!

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thanks again.

 

ok, is this letter wording ok in that case

 

"

I wish to get this unit repaired under my statutory rights, free of charge.

The burden of proof is on you, the trader, to prove this is not a manufacturing fault.

Having spoken to Nintendo, they have informed me there is currently a 6-8 week delay on repairing/replacing pink Nintendo DS units. Given this is an unacceptable timescale, I therefore wish to get the unit replaced or refunded under my statutory rights.

"

 

or should i lose the last 'under my statutory rights' bit ?

 

thanks

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Hmmm...

 

I'd phrase it a bit differently:

 

"In normal circumstances, I would have asked for the unit to be repaired free of charge, as per my statutory rights.

However, I have called Nintendo, and they have advised there is currety a 6-8 weeks delay on repairing/replacing pink Nintendo DS units. This is not a reasonable time for my daughter to be deprived of her DS, and therefore request for you to either replace the unit, or issue a full refund so that I can go and purchase another elsewhere."

 

(And don't forget to push for apology + compo, don't let them get away with the bully tactics!)

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thanks again bookworm, REALLY appreciate your help here.

 

ok, the final wording

 

"

The burden of proof is on you, the trader, to prove this is not a manufacturing fault.

In normal circumstances, I would have asked for the unit to be repaired free of charge, as per my statutory rights.

However, I have called Nintendo, and they have advised there is currently a 6-8 week delay on repairing/replacing pink Nintendo DS units. This is not a reasonable time for my daughter to be deprived of her DS, and therefore request for you to either replace the unit, or issue a full refund so that I can go and purchase another elsewhere.

Additionally, given the upset caused to my daughter being accused of deliberately breaking the unit when we visited the store to complain, and the amount of time and effort I have had to spend trying to get this resolved, I would expect a written apology for how we have been treated, and also ask you to look at compensating us in this regard.

Please respond to my complaint within 7 days.

"

will be posting this to the store manager @ hayes, head office customer services, and will be sending a copy with a covering letter to my credit card company, as consumer direct advised me that they are jointly liable to pay up if we get no joy from TrU.

please shout ASAP if any of the above isn't OK, otherwise this will be going out in today's post..... :)

thanks again.

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and also ask you to look at compensating us in this regard.

 

"and also expect some form of compensation for the upset and distress caused to my child by your manager's abusive and potentially libellous comments."

 

You really need to show them who's boss, and that you will not let them get away with their cr*p. ;-)

Otherwise, lovely, make sure you keep us updated, will you?

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thanks again bookworm, REALLY appreciate your help here.

 

ok, the final wording

 

"

The burden of proof is on you, the trader, to prove this is not a manufacturing fault.

In normal circumstances, I would have asked for the unit to be repaired free of charge, as per my statutory rights.

However, I have called Nintendo, and they have advised there is currently a 6-8 week delay on repairing/replacing pink Nintendo DS units. This is not a reasonable time for my daughter to be deprived of her DS, and therefore request for you to either replace the unit, or issue a full refund so that I can go and purchase another elsewhere.

Additionally, given the upset caused to my daughter being accused of deliberately breaking the unit when we visited the store to complain, and the amount of time and effort I have had to spend trying to get this resolved, I would expect a written apology for how we have been treated, and also ask you to look at compensating us in this regard.

Please respond to my complaint within 7 days.

"

 

will be posting this to the store manager @ hayes, head office customer services, and will be sending a copy with a covering letter to my credit card company, as consumer direct advised me that they are jointly liable to pay up if we get no joy from TrU.

 

please shout ASAP if any of the above isn't OK, otherwise this will be going out in today's post..... :)

 

thanks again.

 

With Bookworm's alteration it looks OK to me, MF1. But, if you'd like me to be really 'picky' I would 'demand' a written apology from not only TrU, but also from the store manager too. There's absolutely no excuse for behaviour such as you described earlier, (especially in an environment geared towards children such as exists at TrU), and he should be made aware of this by having to pen a personal apology.

 

I didn't realise the DS had originally been purchased on a credit card. The advice Consumer Direct gave was quite right, the card company are jointly liable with TrU and it's to them you should turn if you don't get full satisfaction with the retailer.

Jimbo 44 - always happy to help, but always willing to learn from being corrected too!!! Whilst any advice given may be based upon personal experience, please always be sure you seek guidance from a professional in the particular field.

 

Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark, but a large group of professionals built the Titanic.

 

A 'click' on the scales is always appreciated if I have helped. Many Thanks!

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you guys certainly know how to play hardball...like it, like it! ;):)

 

i've made the changes bookworm recommended, but am happy to leave it as 'expect' not demand with regard to the written apology.

 

in all honesty, at this point in time, i just want my daughter to have a working DS again (i would rather have not had to go to the effort of writing letters etc etc - to me, a simple straightforward bit of good old fashioned customer service last sunday would've sorted this out there and then.....). if they had sorted this out satisfactorily last weekend, then we would have been spending close to another £200 in there that day - as it is, it goes without saying we won't be spending another penny there - and will be telling friends and family the same. i doubt they care mind you.....

 

it really is when things go wrong you see a company's true colours eh.

 

(rant over :) )

 

thanks again for all the help here, it's been much appreciated.

 

i'll update this thread as/when anythinh significant happens.

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Well, you see, it works lke this, it's just like haggling.

 

Ask for a repair/replacement, you might get somewhere eventually, and they'll try to get you to pay for part of it.

 

Demand a repair/replacement/refund + apology + compensation, they'll work harder at giving you the main part quickly in the hope you'll then give up on the rest and go away. :-D

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It's a shame, because the guy who dealt with you is so nice outside work... I blame it on the company/ies it/themself/ves. When you're put on Customer Services, or into a managerial/supervisory role, you're not trained for it - you just get shoved on there and told to do as few refunds as possible. If there was proper training with regard to the SoGA, you wouldn't have had this problem in the first place. It's one of the many bones I have to pick with retail companies; I have not worked for even one who understood the value of customer care versus what colour promotional poster to put up that month...mind you, I've never worked for JLewis...:D

Love to know what happens MFI x

 

EDIT: By the way, the 'return code' is an actual code, but it has nothing to do with you as the customer - it's up to whoever's dealing with the repair/replace, and involves a phone call to Nintendo suppliers to ask for a code under which they can send the item back. Shouldn't have been mentioned to you at all, MFI, because it's a normal store procedure. Yes, sometimes suppliers can be funny about taking things back (Gardeners Book Ordering Service, anyone?) but it wouldn't have affected your right to repair/replace/refund because it's the store's job[problem;)].

-----

Click the scales if I've been useful! :)

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hi.

 

an update. got a call from the customer relations manager about half an hour ago.

 

the upshot is pretty much they aren't willing to do anything..... :(

 

basically she maintains that although within the 6 month period, the issue isn't a manufacturing fault (she claims nintendo have said they don't accept it as a manufacturing fault as such), and so the unit must go back to nintendo.

 

they are willing to send it back for me, but she recommends i call nintendo and deal with them directly as they will send out a special carrier to cover sending it there, and they will send it back directly.

 

i told her i was previously told this is TRU's responsibility i.e. contract is with them not nintendo - she agreed but said it might take longer if it goes through them, so that is the best route.

 

i said i wasn't happy and would get further advice - she said she's happy to speak to trading standards about this.

 

with regard to my complaints about how we were treated - apparently that has been raised as an internal case to be investigated and dealt with - even after prompting, no offer of any compensation - she did apologise on the phone though :rolleyes:

 

one half of me says ring nintendo and get it back to them ASAP just to get it sorted (and hope they don't levy the 25 quid fee - i'm guessing them won't), but the other half says why should i let TRU off lightly - i said as much to the lady who called me.....

 

this is the best they can offer me basically.

 

who said customer service is dead, eh ?

 

ME :mad:

 

what next- back on the phone to update consumer direct and see what they advise next i guess ?

 

thanks

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Certainly, and advise them that TrU are denying you your statutory rights.

 

Meanwhile, write a 2nd letter, very much reiterating the remedies that you seek, and advising them that the response you got on the phone is simply not good enough. Also tell them that you do not want them to phone you anymore, and that any correspondance from them MUST be in writing from now on, as unless you get a satisfactory answer within 7 days, your next step will be a County Claim court to recover the full cost of the DS.

 

I can scarcely believe what I'm reading, although why I'm surprised, I dont know... :rolleyes:

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ok, spoke to consumer direct.

 

they still maintain i should go through the trader.....and everything swings on the fact they they need to prove it's not a manufacturing fault - and the report which says this needs to be independant i.e. nintendo won't be independant.....and it's TrU's responsibility to provide such a report.

 

re: court case - they said the issue there would again be proving if the issue is a manufacturing fault again......

 

my issue with this is how long this will drag on for (and thus how much longer my daughter has to be without her DS)

 

thoughts ?

 

thanks again

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It depends on how loud you want to shout.

 

 

If I were you, this is what I would do.

 

I would go to the store, speak to the Store Manager/Customer Relations Manager or someone with the authority to authorise a refund. They will, more than likely, say no. Act calmly and question them, similar to how you see litigants being questioned in a court, and use closed questions, for example:

 

So you are advising me that you will not refund or exchange the product?

Are you aware that you are in breach of contract contrary to the Sale of Goods Act 1979, in addition to breaching further statutory duties contrary to the Sale and Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982?

By refusing my refund you are contravening and preventing my power to excercise my lawful and dutiful right to obtain a remedy to faulty goods, the sale of which is prohibited by English Law?

This has now become a matter of principle; your refusal to co-operate has implied that you are willing to prove in a court of law that the product does NOT have a manufacturing fault?

**At this point, they will more than likely attempt to start passing the buck to Nintendo**

My contract of sale is with the retailer and not the manufacturer - this is proved by the sale of the item from the manufacturer to the retailer and then the retailer to the consumer - and therefore, the sale of the faulty product is a contravention to the law in itself, which Toys R Us are legally obliged to remedy, as they in breach of contract.

 

I know it sounds like a lot of mumbo jumbo, but trust me - the amount of times a manager has had to stand there and look extremely red faced in his store with lots of customers listening to someone who sounds like they really know their stuff is ludicrous, and it's always something which I personally strive for - i can GUARANTEE that the majority of retail store managers are NOT aware of the complexities of the law, and are told what and what not to do - even if it breaches the law.

 

If you are really riled up, you can go to Her Majesty's Courts Service - Home and complete an N1 form and take it with you (unstamped) and this works a treat as a shock tactic to be taken seriously.

 

If you need help filling it in, just let me know and no doubt you will get some assistance from me and others!!

Lived through bankruptcy to tell the tale! Worked in various industries and studied law at university. All advice is given in good faith only :)

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OK MF1, my thoughts are that this is a case for a classic 'British compromise'!

 

On one hand your statutory rights are clear: it's the retailer's responsibility to either make financial recompense or to make sure a repair is satisfactoriy effected and without any burden of proof falling upon you.

 

On the other hand it's your little girl who is really 'suffering' by being without her beloved Nintendo DS.

 

Bookworm is quite right in my view; no more conversations with TrUs, everything from now on should be in writing, no if's, no but's!!! Everything!!!!!

 

I would write (Recorded Delivery, of course) to the lady who 'phoned you form TrUs. Explain very fully what your rights are but suggest you will be prepared to spare them the cost and unhelpful publicity, (make sure you tip off the local press if it does go to court - 'sob story' about a little girl who's been 'deprived of her beloved Nintendo DS'), associated with a court case. Offer to settle the dispute by means of a replacement DS and some tangible gift by way of appeasement for your little girl for not only the loss of her DS, but also for the rudeness and 'suffering' she underwent with the store manager.

 

If they've any sense at all (which, truthfully seems doubtful at the moment) they'll happily settle.

 

Just my opinion anyway, but I hope it helps!

Jimbo 44 - always happy to help, but always willing to learn from being corrected too!!! Whilst any advice given may be based upon personal experience, please always be sure you seek guidance from a professional in the particular field.

 

Never be afraid to try something new. Remember that a lone amateur built the Ark, but a large group of professionals built the Titanic.

 

A 'click' on the scales is always appreciated if I have helped. Many Thanks!

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thanks again guys.

 

in all honesty, i don't think any amount of discussion in-store is going to help - the head office customer relations manager who called me said she has already discussed this with the store manager (the guy who was so rude & ignorant to us was apparently the electronics manager)....

 

i have drafted a letter that i want to post on wednesday - anyone willing to give it the once over if i PM it to them please ? (just want an expert to check i'm not over or under doing it ) ?

 

thanks

 

M

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It seams toys r us have loads of manager i for each department the person you need to speak to is the store manager{the man/woman in charge of the shop and make it clear your not happy tell him/her how you have been treated and take it from there or i dont know if others will like me saying this take it back to woolworths or somewhere else tell them you purchased it last week or longer than that but say you havent got the receipt ive done it loads a times shops and call centre dont get scared with treats of legal issues or solicitors becasue they just think you trying to blag them

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letters, then court. fight fight fight!!!

post office WON 12/11/06

 

abbey.LBA sent 30/10/06.MCOL claim submitted 8/11/06.allocation questionnaire sent 16/12/06.schedule of charges sent 16/12/06.WON

 

2nd abbey claim SAR sent 3/1/07.WON.complaint letter sent 18/1/08

 

alliance and Leicester.WON

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letters, then court. that works but can take, time speak to the actual store manager not a manager who at toys r us are basicly jumped up customer advisors who have worked for the company for more than 2 weeks moan at him if hes not helpful ask for proof that you need a code from nintendo so you can show your solicor when you take them to court you have proof .Its all down to blaggin

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Hi MF

 

I think by being offered a repair all be it through the wrong channels, they have covered their butts.

 

Ive just been through this but with double glazing slight difference in cost, but if he offers in any way to correct the problem to how it should be on purchase then hes in the clear.

 

You have to allow them to bring the situation to a state that you would be in if the purchase had been carried out OK and goods adequate.

Sadly they are allowed the opportunity to do this. As they advised you could send it back through TrU but it would take longer, so they haven't refused.

 

Consumer Direct will collate all complaints in one file and if enough to action then they forward the file to trading Standards who then investigate.

So just by reporting it you help bring pressure on them.

 

With the hinge issue being known I'm surprised no one has taken them to court yet???

 

which ever way you do go i would be concerned about sending it at Xmas time with parcels and an over run manufacturer, but then again may be in your best interest if they miss lay it;) not so much for your daughter but a nice new one would be nice.

 

BL x

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as said previously, i don't think the store manager is going to do much - which is why it's now at the head office level - the head office customer relations manager has already spoken to the actual store manager (and my original letter was addressed to the store manager, with a copy sent to head office).....

 

seem to be getting very conflicting advice here - on the one hand, i'm in the right to send another letter with my demands, and on the other i should send the unit back to nintendo myself?????

 

i'm still keen to give one more letter (with threat of court) to them in the (perhaps stupid) hope they will get their act together and actually be helpful and decent for once......hardly expecting too much is it ?

 

i'd really appreciate one of you senior guys having a read of my proposed letter via PM before i send it (ideally today) ......anyone willing please?

 

thanks

 

M

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