Jump to content



  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • New figures from the Insolvency Service show that early termination rates of IVAs have dropped 11% in the past year, while total IVAs have risen by almost 20,000 in the past two years. View the full article
    • Amigo Loans has posted an £87m loss for the nine months to December 31 2020, a 289% drop on the same period in 2019 View the full article
    • I've had a brief look over the thread and I see that there principle point is that he didn't take out insurance. Your answer to this is very simple – that it is absurd that you are required to pay to protect them against their own negligence or criminality of their employees or the people who are acting for them – in this case, Hermes.Your point here is that any requirement that a customer is required to pay extra to protect against the breach of contract is unfair within the meaning of the unfair terms provisions of the Consumer Rights Act. Please have a read of the unfair terms provisions of the Consumer Rights Act. In In particular, after you have read the sections within the act itself, get a schedule two and you will see examples of unfair terms. These are nonexhaustive which means that they are simply examples and lots of others can be added. An important point is that it forms a significant imbalance between your interests and their interests. They are using a standard form contract which is nonnegotiable. There is no competition because all the courier industry are doing this so there is no opportunity for you to go elsewhere and get a different type of deal. You will need to point out to the defendant – through the mediator – that included in the unfair terms provisions of the Consumer Rights Act is a provision that gives the court the power – in fact a duty – on its own initiative to examine the fairness or otherwise of any term. Point out to the defendant that if they want to go to court then you are happy about it. That you will then raise the question of unfairness to the judge and also you will invite the judge to look at the entirety of the contract and to pronounce on the fairness or otherwise of the contractual terms. Tell the defendant that you expect that the judge will decide unequivocally that a term of the contract which requires the customer to pay extra to protect themselves against the service providers breach of contract is grossly unfair – and in fact it is ridiculous. Basically they are saying "pay us to deliver your goods – and pay us extra if you don't want us to lose them."   Explain to the defendant that you are fully aware that this is a culture within the courier industry which has developed over 30 or 40 years or more but it's not acceptable and that when you get a judgement in your favour which confirms that the term is unfair, (as will surely happen) that you will then make sure that copies of the judgement find their way all over the Internet including social media that is concerned specifically with complaints against the courier industry and then the game will be up for the loss of them. One the mediator to tell the defendant that once you get this judgement, not only will people be claiming for ongoing lost items, but they will also be claiming retrospectively for legitimate claims which have been rejected on the basis of this unfair term. Make it clear to the mediator – that they should tell the defendant that you're not dealing with very much money here – and you are prepared to risk it all in order to go to court and to demonstrate this principle. If the mediator says that you should compromise then you should tell the mediator that if the defendant pays up in full – including costs and interest – that they will then be spared the problem of going to court and getting a judgement against them which will result in the loss of millions of pounds in the future. Tell the mediator that this is the benefit to the defendant and you are not prepared to hand them any further benefit if it means sacrificing a single penny of your claim. Tell the defendant to take it or leave it – you are happy either way.   It is very important that the defendant understands that you don't care either way whether you settle now mediation or goes to court. The defendant as a huge amount to lose if it goes to court. You have very little to lose  
    • Firstly I am disabled and have brain fog so can forget anything.  Today I went online to check when the MOT is due as just had to renew my car insurance and know it comes quickly after that. I was shocked to see my car was flagged as NOT TAXED.  I have had disability tax for years so dont even have to pay. After ringing DVLA I eventually found out papers had been sent to my old house which I left 3 years ago. With the stress of moving etc I never changed the car address but did change the address on my licence as that is correct.   Now I am worried I may have picked up a speeding ticket sometime in the 3 years and also maybe recently on a day trip to London (2 miles too fast coming out a tunnel). The old house is 150 miles away so cant pop in and no idea who lives there now. Thats how I got caught out with tax as they sent the paperwork there to renew. The lady renewed the tax easily on the computer for me which I was so grateful for and backdated it to 1 Feb. Can anyone tell me how I can find out if there are any tickets out there in my name that I know anything about please? I have had a really awful week with so many problems and this is now really making me feel sick so dont want to worry for months to catch up with me.   Thanks  
    • Presumably you have received your own NIP/s172 request after the lease company identified you as the person the car is leased to?   First thing to say is that, regardless of any questions over the date of the first NIP, you must still reply to your own NIP/s172 within the time limit given otherwise you are committing an entirely separate and more serious offence than any speeding infringement.  If you were the driver you should nominate yourself.   You need to be careful arguing that the first NIP was not sent out in time.  Note that it is only the first NIP that is subject to the 14 day limit, and that NIP needs to go to the Registered Keeper.  There is no time limit on subsequent NIPs.   So are you 100% certain that your lease company is the registered keeper and do you know that for a fact?  Please note that the registered keeper of lease vehicles is often not the lease company, but a finance company.   If the police are saying that the first NIP was sent to the RK within the time limit, you can be 99.99999% certain that they will have evidence proving that fact.  Assuming it was sent out first-class, there is a legal presumption that it was delivered two working days after posting, unless the addressee can prove it was never received.  So if the police are saying the first NIP was sent out within 12 days, the RK would have to prove it was never received within 14 days to provide a defence.  As you might imagine, that is very difficult to prove otherwise everybody would claim it.  Unfortunately, "reminder" NIPs are usually not marked as such and may be indistinguishable from the original.   So you need to confirm (preferably by sight of a copy of the actual V5C document as staff of lease companies do not always know) who the Registered Keeper is, and when they recived the first NIP.  If it was received after 14 days can they prove that fact (eg by a date received stamp and an appropriate system for dealing with mail received) and can they prove that they didn't receive an earlier NIP?   Hope that makes sense!  If it doesn't another poster called Man in the Middle will clarify what I 've not explained well or got wrong.
  • Our picks

    • I sent in the bailiffs to the BBC. They collected £350. It made me smile.
        • Haha
        • Like
    • Hi @BankFodder
      Sorry for only updating you now, but after your guidance with submitting the claim it was pretty straight forward and I didn't want to unnecessarily waste your time. Especially with this guide you wrote here, so many thanks for that
      So I issued the claim on day 15 and they requested more time to respond.
      They took until the last day to respond and denied the claim, unsurprisingly saying my contract was with Packlink and not with them.
       
      I opted for mediation, and it played out very similarly to other people's experiences.
       
      In the first call I outlined my case, and I referred to the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 as the reason to why I do in fact have a contract with them. 
       
      In the second call the mediator came back with an offer of the full amount of the phone and postage £146.93, but not the court costs. I said I was not willing to accept this and the mediator came across as a bit irritated that I would not accept this and said I should be flexible. I insisted that the law was on my side and I was willing to take them to court. The mediator went back to Hermes with what I said.
       
      In the third call the mediator said that they would offer the full amount. However, he said that Hermes still thought that I should have taken the case against Packlink instead, and that they would try to recover the court costs themselves from Packlink.
       
      To be fair to them, if Packlink wasn't based in Spain I would've made the claim against them instead. But since they are overseas and the law lets me take action against Hermes directly, it's the best way of trying to recover the money.
       
      So this is a great win. Thank you so much for your help and all of the resources available on this site. It has helped me so much especially as someone who does not know anything about making money claims.
       
      Many thanks, stay safe and have a good Christmas!
       
       
        • Thanks
    • Hermes and mediation hints. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428981-hermes-and-mediation-hints/&do=findComment&comment=5080003
      • 1 reply
    • Natwest Bank Transfer Fraud Call HMRC Please help. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/428951-natwest-bank-transfer-fraud-call-hmrc-please-help/&do=findComment&comment=5079786
      • 33 replies

Lloyds Breach of SAR***Resolved***


Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 729 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

Hi All,

 

I applied to Lloyds for an SAR. The SAR was correctly made and accepted by Lloyds.

 

I contacted Lloyds SAR Team via telephone, several times (at least three times) during the 40 day statutory period, and on each occasion, they advised me that there were no issues, and that they would be dispatching the SAR data, within the 40 day statutory period. The day before the 40 day statutory period was due to expire, I contacted them one last time.

 

On this occasion Lloyds advised that because I had phoned them 3 weeks into the SAR period, and asked for specific information (i.e. PPI and Loan information), they had reset the 40 day statutory period, and that my SAR request would now not be sent until the end of this month.

 

When I phoned Lloyds asking for this specific information, I firstly clarified with them, that by asking for this specific data, there would be no delay in the original SAR date. The SAR Team advisor i spoke to confirmed that there would be no delay. The whole purpose of asking Lloyds for this specific information was so that they didn't have to trawl through years and years worth of data.

 

Had i been told at this point that there would be a delay or the statutory 40 day period would be rest, i would have left the SAR request as is, and got them to send me everything. My fault for trying to be helpful towards Lloyds. Lloyds stated that they had sent me a letter advising me that they were delaying the SAR disclosure.

 

They stated that they had sent me the letter on 7th March 2018, yet as speaking to them on 12th March 2018, I had nothing through the post. I eventually received a letter from them on 16th March 2018. My issue here is, if they had known they were delaying my SAR when i originally phoned them (3 weeks into the SAR 40 days), why did they leave it for over 2 weeks to notify me that it was being delayed. Also, i have phoned them on a number of occasions and at no point have they advised it was delayed.

 

The 40 day statutory date has come and past, so i issued Lloyds with a Letter Before Action (LBA), giving them an extra five working days to send me the SAR. They failed to do this so i have now issued an N1 Particulars of Claim for breach of SAR Request. This was done via money claim online. I have confirmed that Lloyds received the N1 Particulars of Claim, via a signature on special recorded delivery. I have also submitted an N215 Certificate of Service in relation to this.

 

I have now received correspondence from Lloyds who have instructed solicitors on their behalf and are defending the claim.

 

I am not sure on what actions i need to take next. I am not legally trained and have limited knowledge of civil court proceedings.

Please can i have some advise and help on what i need to do next.

 

Aside from the N1 Particulars of Claim, i have also submitted a complaint to the Information Commissioner's Office, for the breach of data protection.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Replies 94
  • Created
  • Last Reply

Top Posters In This Topic

Well done on issuing proceedings. Lloyds are a dishonest company which get away with far too much. They often find themselves in breach of SARs and it is about time somebody took them on.

 

However, not so well done (I'm afraid) on not having a game plan for this before you start the action. We will be pleased to help you, but we may find that it could have been done in a different way.

 

Please will you post up your claim. Also, have you made a complaint to the Information Commissioner? I suggest that you do this. Unfortunately it is probably left too late but if you had a written confirmation from the information Commissioner that they were indeed in breach of their data protection obligations then this would help you enormously. I suggest that you make a complaint to the information Commissioner immediately. Do it by telephone tomorrow and then follow up with an email. Make sure you get names and reference numbers of the complaint.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Sorry, I just re-read your post. I see that you have in fact made a complaint to the Information Commissioner. Well done – you are doing the right things. When did you make your complaint?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi BankFodder,

What information shall i post with regards to the claim? Is the below ok?

 

30/01/2018 SAR Request submitted to Lloyds - 40 day deadline 11/03/2018

06/02/1018 Letter from Lloyds confirming receipt of SAR with a deadline date of 13/03/2018

19/02/2018 Contacted Lloyds to ask for specific information and confirmed deadline date was still 13/03/2018. SAR Team advised no issue and still on target for deadline of 13/03/2018

06/03/2018 Contacted Lloyds to confirm SAR deadline of 13/03/2018 was still on schedule. SAR Team advised no issue and still on target for deadline of 13/03/2018

12/03/2018 Contacted Lloyds to confirm SAR deadline of 13/03/2018 was still on schedule. SAR Team advised that the 40 day statutory period had been reset and was now anticipated being end of March 2018

14/03/2018 Letter Before Action submitted to Lloyds (giving 5 working days - 19/03/2018)

20/03/2018 Complaint submitted to Information Commissioner's Office (ICO) regarding breach of (SAR) Data Protection Act 1998. Confirmation email received from the ICO confirming receipt of complaint correspondence

21/03/2018 N1 Particulars of Claim issued via Money online

21/03/2018 Notification of Service received from Royal Mail

23/03/2018 N215 Certificate of Service sent to Money Claim Online

27/03/2018 N9 Response Pack received from Lloyds Solicitor's (defending claim) and N434 Notice of Change Legal Representative

 

Yes, i have completed the ICO's online complaint form and sent it to them on 20/03/2018. They have since confirmed receipt of my complaint correspondence later that day (i.e. 20/03/2018).

Link to post
Share on other sites

Please will you post up the claim form in pdf format

Link to post
Share on other sites

If you have a scanner the software normally contains the software to scan in PDF...otherwise just type it out here by hand (Verbatim) less any identifiables.

 

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites

please read UPLOAD

it tells you how to do it.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

your issue is you asked for specific info

should have asked for all info...

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

Link to post
Share on other sites

We are very happy to help you and we do it free of charge. You get hundreds of pounds worth of advice and may be more from here free. However, it is very helpful to engage more closely with the thread and also we do need to see documents. For less than £50 you can get a very decent scanner from PC World – and you still have the scanner for years after your problem is sorted out.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I have also served a Certificate of Service and sent this to County Court Business Centre and asked them to add it to my Money Claim Online case file.

 

I have received an N9 Response Pack from Eversheds and Sutherlands. They have indicated that they intend to defend all of the claim.

 

I have now received the data from the SAR on 28-03-2018, via signed for delivery. They sent me every document on file, since I have banked with them. Some 18 years, so it came in two massive bundles. Not sure why they did this, as when i contacted them on 19-03-2018, i did specify the documentation i needed.

 

Having checked the two bundles, i note that they have not enclosed copies of the application form or consumer credit agreements for any of the accounts/loans i asked for.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Having checked the two bundles, i note that they have not enclosed copies of the application form or consumer credit agreements for any of the accounts/loans i asked for.

 

They wont...nor obliged to........you must request your agreements by way of a section 77/78 request

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group The National Consumer Service

 

If you want advice on your Topic please PM me a link to your thread

Link to post
Share on other sites
We are very happy to help you and we do it free of charge. You get hundreds of pounds worth of advice and may be more from here free. However, it is very helpful to engage more closely with the thread and also we do need to see documents. For less than £50 you can get a very decent scanner from PC World – and you still have the scanner for years after your problem is sorted out.

 

BankFodder, I have attached the N1 Particulars of Claim as requested.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you.

 

Okay it looks fairly straightforward – except that you have asked for a court order. This ramps it up slightly because a mere defence from the defendants won't really do the business and they will have to be hearing in order for the judge to decide whether or not to make the order.

 

It might have been handy to have waited until the complaint to the information Commissioner had received a an indication as to whether or not they thought there was a breach. If they had indicated that they thought the bank was in breach then the whole thing would be very straightforward. As it is, you are waiting for a response from the information Commissioner. Have you told the information Commissioner that you have started a legal action? It will be better not to because they might feel constrained not to give any opinion in view the fact that proceedings had been started.

 

There's not a lot you can do now except to wait for the expiry of the 28 days from the issue the claim to see whether or not they put in the defence. They probably will put in a defence on time in which case you will have to come back to us and tell us what they say. If by some chance the deadline expires and they have not put in the defence then I would suggest that you move very quickly to apply for judgement. However, it is likely that they will put in a defence.

 

I would imagine it's highly likely that they will contact you and try simply to pay the money that you are after and to get you to drop it. Do I understand from you that since issue the proceedings they have complied?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the reply and the guidance BankFodder, very much appreciated, as i have no legal training and feel like a fish out of water.

 

I got the template for this N1 Particulars of Claim, from another CAGER's thread, so i thought it was the standard template to send to the Courts. Apologies if it is incorrect or if i have inadvertently asked for a court order, when i shouldn't have. I thought the content was correct when i sent it.

 

When I submitted my complaint to the ICO, I did enclose a copy of the bank letter, advising them i was taking them to County Court for non-compliance. I didn't disclose this fact on the ICO complaint form though. Although, from the letter, i suspect the ICO will be aware of the pending Court case.

 

Lloyds have sent me the SAR data and i received this on 28.03.2018.

 

So, Eversheds Sutherland Solicitor's have filed the N9 Acknowledgement, and i just need to wait now to see if they submit a defence within the 28 days? If they do offer to settle out of court, should i accept, now that i have the SAR data? And if they do submit a defence, what do i need to do next please?

Link to post
Share on other sites

Let's see what they offer – if anything and also what the defence is.

 

You should be aware that they may test you by supplying a defence and then waiting for the matter to be allocated and then to go to a hearing.

 

There are two problems here. First of all, they may decide to bluff you out and see if you are prepared to pay the hearing fee. I'm not sure how much that is – but it might be a couple of hundred quid. It is very unfair but the costs have gone up in the past couple of years. If you pay the hearing fee they will then know that you're serious and they may then start to negotiate. Of course if you win then you will get your hearing fee and other costs back.

 

The second thing that could happen is that because you have asked for a court order the judge may consider that this is no longer a small claim and he my allocate it to the fast track. If that happens then if you lose you will be liable for a fair amount of costs and that would probably excite the banks solicitors to start putting pressure on you and also to spin it out to increase your exposure to costs. I think it is unlikely that it would be allocated to the fast track – but I am simply explaining the various things that might happen

 

I'm afraid the whole thing becomes a bit of a game. If we had helped you in the drafting of the claim form then I think we probably wouldn't have asked for the court order. We would simply have asked for a payment and this would have kept things simple and at a manageable level.

 

I'm afraid that in the circumstances if they happen to come back to you with a settlement offer that on the basis that you now have your SAR disclosure, you might be best off accepting it – but let us know first.

 

If I had been helping you draft claim then I would probably have made a symbolic claim of money on the basis of a DPA breach of your SAR but also of a breach of the banks obligations to treat you fairly and to communicate with you fairly under BCOBS.

 

I think that this alone would have been sufficient to concentrate their minds.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 3 weeks later...

So in relation to my DPA non-compliance complaint to the Information Commissioner, I have today received an email from the Case Officer. It is their view that "Lloyds Bank is unlikely to have complied with its obligations under the Data Protection Act 1998". He further advises in his email that he he written to Lloyds asking them to ensue it responds properly to my as soon as possible, certainly within 21 days.

 

The Case Officer has asked Lloyds Bank to provide them with an explanation for the delay and has given them 28 days to respond to the ICO on the issue.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Good well done. This is exactly the response you're looking for.

When are the 28 days up?

If you have not received a defence then it must be nearly time to apply for judgement

Link to post
Share on other sites

Incidentally I think that it is highly likely that they will simply try to buy you off by paying you what you are asking in the claim.

I suggest that you let us know before you accept anything because we might be able to make some other suggestions

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am glad you have mentioned the 28 days as i have an issue with the County Court Business Centre. They have registered the Acknowledgement of Service as being 26/03/18. However, the N215 Certificate of Service i submitted shows the date of service as the 23/03/2018. The CCBC say they add five days on from the date i served the claim. That was on 21/03/18. So the 28 days expires on Monday and so far no defence has been received/entered. i am looking to request judgement immediately. I am assuming i have to wait until tuesday morning (the day after) to request judgement?

Link to post
Share on other sites

The 28 days is from the date of service of the claim. If you issue on MoneyClaim then for a business this is generally speaking two days after the date of issue. 28 days runs from then. If you serve an individual then I believe that the date of deemed service is five days after the date of issue.

 

Anyway, I'm assuming that you have issued this on MoneyClaim and so just keep on going back every day until it allows you to apply the judgement.

 

Also you should be aware that even if you have applied for judgement, if they file a defence during the "processing time" (about 10 days), that the court staff may still decide to allow the defence and reject your application for judgement. It seems unfair but I suppose they try to take a pragmatic view

Link to post
Share on other sites

Fodder, just checking in. Tomorrow is the deadline for them to file a defence and i received nothing from them Friday or yesterday. Do i have to wait until the following working day (i.e. 24) to submit, or can i request judgement same day, say in the evening? Not been in this position before, so making sure, i do everything correctly and as per CPR.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...