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whatever happens knowhow cover

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Please have a look at the draft document below.

 

Check that it is correct and that it is true and let me know if you think there is anything missed out.

Is there anything that you disagree with?

 

knowhow skeleton.rtf

 

This is quite an unconventional way of presenting a skeleton argument but we used exactly this form in case a year or so ago against Npower and the judge complimented the claimant in the case and said how useful it was and how it clarified the issues.


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That's looks very good Bank fodder.

Are there any other points I need to cover?

How do I attach files again?

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I dont know how to attach so here is what I had drafted up

 

Overview

I had my daughter tablet, a nexus 7 2nd gen 32gb covered for accidental damage for the past 4 years. Back in March she put on the side of the bath to use the toilet and it fell into the bath which her mom had just ran for her, She is only 6. It caused the tablet to become water damaged,

 

My defence

 

Below statement is incorrect

 

On point 8,

(d) This was the 6th incident to damage which occurred to the tablet since purchase

 

In total I've had 6 item under whatever happens

Laptop - for 3 years - ended Dec 2017 - never claimed

3 Samsung tab2 tablets - still under whatever happen warranty - never claimed

2 nexus tablets - the 6 incidents claims where all against these 2 tablets

 

These are the 6 incidents

 

02/15 – dropped – Different tablet

08/15 - psu & docking port damage – Different tablet

11/15 - dockport damage - Different tablet

06/16 – bent – Claim tablet

10/16 - screen damage - Claim tablet

03/18 - dropped in bath - Claim tablet

 

now let me clarify these 6 incidents, I had two nexus 7 32gb from pc world, one was the first edition & then this one which was the nexus 2 I bought in 2014. The first one I don't even have under warranty anymore I stopped it a couple of years ago. The first one had a design fault where the charge port or docking port as they call was very wide & wouldn't hold the charger in even from new. Then I realised this after getting it changed a couple of times. The first three repairs ( 02/15, 08/15 & 11/15) I believe they have confused for the older Nexus. With this the newer Nexus 2 tablet I thought I only had one repair when the screen was damaged but I remember taking it when there was a software issue & it wouldn't power up, I only noticed now they have put that down as bent when it wasn't bent at all.

 

In any event, the know-how agreement is a periodic agreement based on a month by month rolling basis. The defendant was happy to keep on providing the monthly cover and happy to receive the premiums despite the fact that there had been previous know-how policies and which have been claimed upon.

 

My main points are that you had the insurance cover and it is clear that it is intended for "mishaps"

the fact that the defendants are even trying to avoid using this word in their defence suggest that they are trying to avoid their responsibility

the defence have pointed out that you have had a number of claims over the years. However, they have not told the court that these claims relate to completely different policies and that in fact you have held a number of policies over the years.

 

The defendants are not bound to continue the insurance cover. It is on a rolling monthly contract and if they had decided that you were too much of a risk, they could have terminated the arrangement with one months notice. They chose not to.

 

https://knowhow.com/uk/repair-and-protect/tablets--gadgets-care-plan.aspx

 

• Protection against mishap - we don’t expect you to wrap your product in cotton wool. If your product suffers a mishap, we’ll fix it.

 

• Unlimited repairs - there’s no limit to the amount of repairs you can have, we’ll always be there to help.

 

On point 13: Before issuing legal proceeding I was happy to accept £120 to source a replacement of equivalent specification. However now that I have commenced legal proceedings I want to claim for the full amount of £250 to purchase a new tablet of equivalent specification.

On point 16: Please define Neglect & how a 6 year old can comprehend this?

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That's looks very good Bank fodder.

Are there any other points I need to cover?

How do I attach files again?

 

it is precisely the question of whether there are any other points you want to cover which I'm asking you.

 

If you have got further points to make which directly address their defence then please list them here.

 

However it would be helpful if you would list them briefly in bullet pointed form and also refer back to the paragraph numbers in their defence.

 

By the way the document which purports to be the defence is one huge lump of unseparated paragraphs. Is that really the way they supplied it to you?


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No other points i can think of.

Yes this is how there response was supplied to me via moneyclaims, unseparated paragraphs.

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Well I doubt whether the judge will be very impressed then at the quality of their defence. It's an absolute disgrace and really shows that they can't be bothered.

 

Anyway, have a good think about it and make sure there is nothing you want to add and make sure that it expresses your position completely.

 

You then need to add the normal heading – the name of the court, the names of the parties, the claim reference number.

 

Then a heading – "Skeleton Argument"

 

Finish it up with a statement of truth.

 

Don't send it yet. What date is the hearing?


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It could be said that the Defence is not even CPR compliant (CPR16.5)...it may have been manually submitted as its deficient of formatting.. headers and a statement of truth?


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If it is correct that there is no statement of truth then you should amend the skeleton argument accordingly.

 

I have asked you to make sure that it is all correct. If there is no statement of truth then why did you not notice this and mention it? You need to realise that you have very strict responsibility to the court – and to yourself – to make sure that everything you say is true and accurate. If you fail to do this then you weaken your own position.

 

Please check it all and then doublecheck it and make sure that it is all correct and that it corresponds to the defence. This is your responsibility.

 

Don't start getting casual about this


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I never said that, there is a header and statement of truth in the pc world claim response.

I am not allowed to post attachments so i can upload their defance and my skeleton argument. Date of hearing is 1 nov. Have you got email address i can send you copies to look at bank fodder? Ź

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I'm not sure why you can't upload attachments in pdf format


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these are my permissions

Can this be amended?

Posting Permissions

 

 

  • You may post new threads
  • You may post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may edit your posts

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try now


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no still can't post attachments?

 

Posting Permissions

You may post new threads

You may post replies

You may not post attachments

You may edit your posts

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I wanted to attach their defence & my skeleton claim to see if everything is correct.

 

Also I needed guidance on the below directions which apply to the claim

 

1)Each party must deliver to the other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which that party intend to rely at the hearing no later than 14 days before the hearing.

 

2) The original documents must be bought to the hearing

 

3)The judge may refuse to consider a document or take it into account if a copy of it has not been sent to the other party as required by this order.

 

Does this mean I have to send copies of my skeleton claim to the defendant & to the court before I attend the hearing? & take copies of my whatever happens policies?

 

thanks

Ansar

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I wanted to attach their defence & my skeleton claim to see if everything is correct.

 

Also I needed guidance on the below directions which apply to the claim

 

1)Each party must deliver to the other party and to the court office copies of all documents on which that party intend to rely at the hearing no later than 14 days before the hearing.

 

2) The original documents must be bought to the hearing

 

3)The judge may refuse to consider a document or take it into account if a copy of it has not been sent to the other party as required by this order.

 

Does this mean I have to send copies of my skeleton claim to the defendant & to the court before I attend the hearing? & take copies of my whatever happens policies?

 

thanks

Ansar

 

Yes...and its a statement not a skeleton claim


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Finally managed to attach ;-)

 

I have attached Pc World response when they declined my claim, I have tried to separate their points so it is a bit more legible. I have XXX names email address etc

 

I have attached my statement with the header & statement of truth. Is it OK like this or do I need to give an account of what happened from the start & tell tell judge how the tablet was damaged etc? Also shall I include all the policies i've had with PC World & the claims that i've made or is that too much information?

 

thankz

pc word claim-responsepdf.pdf

knowhow skeleton consumer forum.pdf

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It certainly is a most unconventional layout and not one I have ever come across before.Your statement is your only opportunity to confirm and complete your evidence...so anything referred to in either your particulars of claim or statement...must be included or reference to.

 

You must attach exhibits if you wish to rely on them and mark them within the statement at the relevant position...sentence.

 

If its not in the statement ..you cant refer to it or rely on it.

 

I think the above requires a conclusion and what you want the court to order.

 

Andy


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Please have a look at the draft document below.

 

Check that it is correct and that it is true and let me know if you think there is anything missed out.

Is there anything that you disagree with?

 

[ATTACH]73273[/ATTACH]

 

This is quite an unconventional way of presenting a skeleton argument but we used exactly this form in case a year or so ago against Npower and the judge complimented the claimant in the case and said how useful it was and how it clarified the issues.

 

 

 

Bank fodder created this format & said it is unconventional but the judge complimented it in a previous case. Shall I stick to this format or do a standard statement?

Bank fodder - shall I list all the policies I have with them currently active ? and the claims I've had previously just to give the judge the fuller picture of my custom & loyally to PC World?

Also for a conclusion, Just say now that the case has gone to court I want to claim for the full £250 to purchase a new tablet of similar spec?

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There is nothing wrong with an unconventional approach if it does the job. Of course I'm not exactly impartial on this, but the format I have suggested is very clear and brief and that is what the judge will want.

 

Personally I should use this format – apart from anything else, you are a litigant in person and so they will cut you a lot of slack.

 

However, others may come along with a contrary view.

 

You certainly can list all the policies that you have in the claims you have had against them. I would put that I completely separate sheet but tabulated in the way that I have tabulated the skeleton argument. You can supply your tabulated list of policies and claims as part of the bundle – but not as part of the skeleton argument.

 

You say that you want to claim for the full £250 for a new tablet – but it won't be for you to dictate the level of damages that you get. You will simply argue your position and try to give good reasons why you should get the level of damages you have asked for. The other side will express contrary opinions and then the judge will make a decision.


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I have paid the fee & sent my response to the court & emailed to the defendant last week. I also attached a separate letter with all my policies & claims against them

Today I received two letter from PC World.

One letter stating their position remains the same.

Stating my comments that this is not the sixth claim against this tablet, saying their records show their are six instances of claims. I don't think they even bothered to check if the claims are against different tablets. Anyway their policy clearly states "you can have unlimited repairs" so pointing out how many repairs is irrelevant.

Also stating for clarification whilst the scope of service agreement does cover damage caused by accidents & mishaps the terms and conditions of the agreement under the heading "whats not covered included" expressly excludes and specify damage caused by neglect,misuse or abuse of the product is not covered. The reason for this response is because in their first response they said in point 3 "excludes damage caused by accident, misuse, neglect or fair wear and tear"

Stating they will be complying by the court order in respect of providing their bundle of documents to include both number of claims and a full copy of the service agreement. This is what I want as it will prove claims against different policies.

Also stating for purpose of clarity, as highlight in our defence it was not stated that the tablet was dropped in the bath by yourself. We note you have stated this was dropped by your six year old daughter however it is our position you failed to reasonable level of care of the tablet by allowing your six year old to take an electrical item in the bathroom near a body of water. It is our view that failing to take reasonable steps to ensure the tablet is not put at such risk would be an instance of neglect on your part.

It clearly states on their response point 7 "the Claimant attended the Defendant’s Birmingham store to notify that the tablet had been accidentally damaged and was dropped in the bath" so to say it was not stated that the tablet was dropped in the bath is say i'm a lair but it's in their own response?

 

The second letter headed with "Without Prejudice" - what does this mean

Basically stating they stand by their defence however to resolve this matter they willing to pay me £150 as a gesture of good will, going back to before I made the claim I contacted their customer services & stated I would accept £100 to obtain replacement so they have offer £150, £50 for my fees i've paid for this case.

Stating the offer is made "without prejudice save as to costs" so it must not be shown to the court or referred to until the case has been heard and the judge has made known his findings.

Stating I should give their offer a serious consideration in the event I don't receive an award for the amount offered they will ask the judge that I make a contribution to the defendants expenses. Trying to scare me off?

It makes even more angry that it's taken me 8 months to get here and now that they know I have done everything even as far as pay the court fee for the hearing that it's finally going to court & that they have to take me seriously. They make me an offer.

I have a good mind of replying to them & asking for £250 now & £50 for the fees, £300 in total, for me to settle out of court as this what an equivalent tablet would cost now a day? I paid £240 back 2014! Otherwise take it court, leave it in gods hands.

The cheek of these company, honest makes your blood boil

What your option Bank fodder?

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It is completely predictable that this point when they finally realised that it is likely to go to court that they will try to make you a good will offer in order to sort it out, reduce the costs and also very importantly from their point of view, reduce the chances of a judgement against them with the consequent humiliation and possible publicity on social media.

 

Their threat to seek a contribution to costs has almost no foundation whatsoever. This is a small claim and as long as you have litigated reasonably and not unreasonably incurred costs or prolonged litigation then the rule is that each side bears the costs. However, this is subject to judicial discretion but an order for costs or a contribution to costs would only be exercised very rarely

 

It's clear from what you say that they still don't seem to understand that you have had several separate policies and the fact that they are trying to tell the court that you have had a single policy and made multiple claims against it is a serious flaw in their position and I agree with you it is pretty amazing that they haven't copied onto this yet.

 

In terms of their offer to you and the money you're claiming, it is really going to be for you to take a very reasonable view as to the likely outcome of the case in the event that you win. This means, what will the court award you.

 

I'm afraid that I have rather lost track of this thread and so I'm not quite sure exactly what the know-how cover offers you. Is it a like-for-like replacement? Maybe you could spell it out for me. Of course it will have to be taken into consideration you have had some use out of it. I'm almost certain that you are not being offered a new for old replacement.

 

If you consider that there offer is equal to what a court would award you in the event that you win then you will probably have to accept the offer. Of course you would also expect them to pay the costs which you have incurred so far.

 

It is very important that you understand that this is not the moment to exercise anger or a sense of revenge when calculating the amount of money that you are claiming. You have to be extremely pragmatic and realistic about what the know-how cover offers you because this effectively sets out the limit of what the court can award you.

 

If you dig your heels in and insist that your claim is for a figure which a court finds is wildly excessive then the court will only offer you the reduced figure and might exceptionally consider ordering you to pay a contribution to their costs. This will probably be far more than the damages you are claiming


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This is what it says on their knowhow policy

 

We’ll fix or replace with new - if we are unable to repair your product, we’ll give you a brand new one.

 

 

They can't fix it so they owe me a new one?

 

 

So I don't think I'm being unreasonable now, I only offered them that offer before I took them to court, now that I have taken them to court I want a new replacement.

 

 

Do you think I should ask them as it can't d any harm & they can only refuse?

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But if that's what they say then that is what you are entitled to.

 

If there aren't brand-new ones available then you had better identify what you consider is an equivalent replacement and get a printout of that to show to the court

 

I don't think you should be asking anything. I think you should be simply asserting your position. This means that you respond to them and tell them that you are rejecting their proposed settlement because it is not what is promised in the knowhow contract and that you are quite sure that the court will find in your favour and essentially they will enforce the contract.

 

Point out them once again that they are misleading the court by suggesting that you have had six claims on the same policy. Tell them you will put them to proof on this point at the hearing. Tell them that it is clear that you had a number of knowhow policies as you have already explained in the documents and you will be explaining that again to the court.


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