Old HSBC Credit Card Debt England/Scotland Skullduggery

[Vstar 1]

Hi all,

 

Well... this one has been going on for sometime, and there's definitely been some skullduggery going on. so I thought I'd ask for opinions on the matter.

 

The issue concerns a £6K HSBC credit card debt and crosses borders!

 

Around the time I went to university I opened a HSBC account along with a credit card (2003). This account was opened in England.

 

Fast forward a few years to 2009 and I (like many) was a victim of the financial crisis and back home with Ma and Pa, now living in the Scottish Highlands. I managed to keep repayments up until early 2010 when it was no longer feasible and there was a £6k debt on the card.

 

At this point I made a formal request for a true signed copy of my CCA. They couldn't provide it, or a reasonable explanation of where it had gone. At which point I placed the account in dispute and ceased payments.

 

They ignored the fact it was in dispute and passed it onto DG Solicitors. I ignored all communications and they passed it onto MKDP around 2012/13. I contacted MKDP in July 2013 (letter attached) pointed out it was in dispute with HSBC and again requested my CCA (with a £1 postal order). They provided something of a reconstituted copy, but admitted they couldn't enforce the agreement.

 

Carried on ignoring and it got passed onto Robinson Way. They admitted it was unenforceable and eventually asked for 10%, which I still ignored.

 

Last year I moved back to England with the missus. I received a letter from Walker Love collections via the mail redirection. With most of my personal documents in storage in Scotland still I was thinking it was 5 years and statute barred (as per Scotland) so I put in a standard letter denying the debt.

 

Walker Love have replied with a "Statement of account" showing I made a £1 payment in July 2013. This of course would have been the Postal Order I made at the time for the CCA. To be fair I guess that would count as acknowledging the debt anyway, but sneaky (skullduggery!!) all the same. I haven't made an actual payment since 2010.

 

The account has now been placed on hold till 18th April 2018 to give me chance to respond.

 

A few other points to note;

 

My main current account is still registered to my parents address in Scotland and it is also where I'm registered to vote.

 

I do have a joint account with the new missus and rent a house with her in England.

 

Walker Love do not know I'm in England.

 

The defaulted account has gone from my credit record and my score is quite good considering my past problems.

 

I now work in the Merchant Navy and can be away for four months at a time. It could be the case that I am away when I need to take legal action etc etc. I'm still not a wealthy man and struggle to make ends meet.

 

I'm not sure how the law relates to me, a debt is SB after 6 years in England, but 5 in Scotland. The account was opened in England, but I was resident in Scotland when the issues began. I could probably argue to being resident in either country at the moment.

 

During moving and over the years I have misplaced some of the paperwork, but I do have some key bits. Scans attached.

 

I am worried that Walker Love may try to escalate things with what I believe is the statute barred anniversary date of July 2018 approaching.

 

Your opinions on what to do next please!!!

scans.pdf

[Bazooka Boo 3,036]

That is a very old template you sent them, the OFT no longer exists.

 

However, no CCA = No pay.

 

Until or unless they come up with the paperwork, then you can safely ignore them.

[sgtbush 73]

I would imagine English law applies as that's what's normally in the terms and conditions.

I would also say that your trying to get the debt run up by you written off on a technicality ( asking for true copy agreement and then ceasing payments) but if that's the law then that's the law. No cca no pay.

I would also say that you, being in the merchant navy, need to be careful attracting ccjs and the like.

There is a thing called responsible borrowing not just responsible lending.

[Vstar 1]

Hi,

 

thanks for the reply. You'll note the letter I sent was dated 2013 to a previous holder of the debt. Having read about a bit lately there seems to be some different views as to what counts as being unenforceable, and I was wondering if it had changed?

[Vstar 1]

I would imagine English law applies as that's what's normally in the terms and conditions.

I would also say that your trying to get the debt run up by you written off on a technicality ( asking for true copy agreement and then ceasing payments) but if that's the law then that's the law. No cca no pay.

I would also say that you, being in the merchant navy, need to be careful attracting ccjs and the like.

There is a thing called responsible borrowing not just responsible lending.

 

I can't deny that I got myself in trouble, that is true, though it was never my intention to be in a position that I was unable to repay. At the time the request for the CCA seemed to be the best course of action. Also, to be fair it (and I'm sure this is an argument that has been heard before) it quickly came out at the time that the thieving banks had blown billions, so i count my conduct as more of a misdemeanor.

[jon8214 52]

Well you can argue the £1 payment was for the CCA and it won't count towards the Stat Barred status if the account

 

The CCA they have sent is an application form not a credit agreement so is toilet paper

 

I would await and see if they issue proceedings as it should be easily won

[Bazooka Boo 3,036]

The use of the £1 payment for the CCA DOES NOT reset the limitation period, the payment is the stat fee for the CCA, what they do with it is their business.

 

So how long since the last payment?

[jon8214 52]

Looking at the OP last payment was 2010

 

The debt is stat barred in England and Scotland

 

I would send them the Statute Barred template from the library

[Vstar 1]

The use of the £1 payment for the CCA DOES NOT reset the limitation period, the payment is the stat fee for the CCA, what they do with it is their business.

 

So how long since the last payment?

 

Last payment was taken without my permission from my current account by HSBC mid 2010. I presumed the letter i posted requesting my CCA in 2013 would count as an acknowledgement of the debt?

[jon8214 52]

a CCA request does not acknowledge the debt

 

DCA's will try to make you think it does thats why they take the £1 payment off the debt to make it look like you have acknowledged it

[Bazooka Boo 3,036]

Last payment was taken without my permission from my current account by HSBC mid 2010. I presumed the letter i posted requesting my CCA in 2013 would count as an acknowledgement of the debt?

 

NO, ONLY a written letter stating you owe the debt is acknowledgement, CCA request doesn't reset/acknowledge the clock/debt.

 

When was the last payment made by YOU?

[Vstar 1]

a CCA request does not acknowledge the debt

 

DCA's will try to make you think it does thats why they take the £1 payment off the debt to make it look like you have acknowledged it

 

That is good. The letter from Walker Love accompanied by the Account statement was in response to a statute barred letter I sent them. Would you suggest forwarding them a copy of the attached scanned letter from 2013 and replies from MKDP. Or just leaving it alone till they try to serve me?

 

 

BTW Thanks everyone for the helpful advice!!!!

[Vstar 1]

Last payment by me was March 2010

[jon8214 52]

Debt is Satute barred

 

I would ignore them and let them try and issue proceedings

 

you don't want to enter into letter tennis, just make sure they have correct address or an address that you can still receive mail from so they don't get a back door CCJ

 

Would be easily won by you

[dx100uk 9,636]

that's the usual rubbish out of their filing cabinet at hPH2 [hoist/rway/MKDP] that they trot out for a HSBC CCA request.

 

per id do as JOn says in post 8

send them our new SB letter

moved to the HSBC forum.

 

you opened the A/C in England so eng law applies

Edited March 25, 2018 by Andyorch
Edited

[Vstar 1]

that's the usual rubbish out of their filing cabinet at hPH2 [hoist/rway/MKDP] that they trot out for a HSBC CCA request.

 

per id do as JOn says in post 8

send them our new SB letter

moved to the HSBC forum.

 

you opened the A/C in England so eng law applies

 

Again, thank you all for the advice.

 

There does seem to be some confusion around the England to Scotland issue. The another website seems to think Scots Law applies after 6 months

 

This 2012 post had some info too.

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?344776-Now-living-in-Scotland-is-the-debt-statute-barred

 

Anyway.... I always avoid the game of letter tennis, but i think I'll put another statute barred letter in, with an addition that the 2013 £1 payment was a statutory payment for a cca request and should not have been used for anything else.

 

I'll probably just leave the ball in their court after, and see if they want to start proceedings etc. I feel that is unlikely to be honest, but you never know.

Edited March 25, 2018 by dx100uk
removed website

[dx100uk 9,636]

had to remove that site

they are wrong

 

it was taken out whilst residing in England, English law applies.

 

jut send our SB letter in the debt collection section of the library.

 

don't adapt it

don't sign it

they know full well the £1CCA does not reset anything end off.

 

dx