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    • happy for mod to move it to suitable location under thread title Background: Thanks in advance for any thoughts you can share. This is a very long history, I appreciate your time. In 2011 I took out a £8500. loan from Borro private finance against art and jewellery to make ends meet. The agreements are attached below. This is a CCA. Borro regulated by the FCA. The interest rate is APR 68.8  % for 6 months.  I paid the interest and capital during the period term. On 3 May 2012  I renewed this loan at 79.4% interest for another 6 months.  Last week I requested all evidence the lender holds concerning the agreements. Missing are 03/05/2012 through 14/06 2013.( not under a SAR).  I fell into arrears on the loan and one piece of jewellery was sold, reducing the balance to £6400. Dec 2014.   The lender took a payment of interest £2044.16.  Renewed against the other items ( art etc) on this loan.  The new interest rate increased to 88.8%  . At the time the ring was sold, I requested all documents concerning the sale. Borro produced none. The ring is appraised at $17,5000.  £14,000.  The ring was sold for £3500.  I have an appraisal. I was notified prior to the sale. The ring was sold by "private treaty". I continued to ask for information about this sale until todays date. No information has been provided.  I took a huge loss . The ring is not clearly described on the inventory compared to the appraisal. Documents missing from Borro response to my request include 25/10/2014 to 10/04/2015. I was in arrears on this loan and a new agreement was made. The loan amount was increased to £10,810.00 and the interest rate decreased to  80%.  what is interesting is that the lender should have sold this ring, the value was sufficient to pay off my debts. But that is not what happened. someone got a deal on a nice ring.  II. ON 1, Jan 2012, I took out a second loan in the amount of £3000 against another piece of Jewellery. The interest was 68.8%. I paid the P&I on this loan.    Missing from the requested information is agreement from July 10/2012 until 12/12/2012.  I did pay interest during that period and on 12/12/2012 through 11/06/2013 I renewed  with an interest rate for 79.4 %.  I renewed on 04/07/2013 through 03/06/2014 interest rate 97.8%.  I renewed this loan on 03/01/2014 interest rate was 88.8. Take note there is very little description about this item. I redeemed the loan but ended up back in the pawn. 19/06/2014 to 18/12/2014 interest eat 94.5%. I renewed this loan again 19/03/2015 . Interest rate was 93.2%. Now there is a clearer description of the ring. Documents missing from Borro response to my request include 012/06/2013 to /10/2014 to 10/04/2015. Information on the  description is also scant until I took the loan out again in 2014. The last payment on either loan was March 2015. Default date was September 2015. The lender still has my property.   PROBLEM: In 2013, Borro became aware that the reason I had pawned these items was that I was a plaintiff in a substantial lawsuit in the US. I borrowed because I had lost my job. I was not able to work( I had been FCA regulated). I was facing eviction, had serious financial stability  and some mental health problems. I gave them a copy of the pleadings. They are aware that I had claimed these loans as part of my damages.  In 2015, Periodically I requested the accounting. Some was provided some was not. As a result, in  2016, the head of credit wrote to me " "Thank you for coming in to see me today. As discussed, we will freeze your accounts with us from today the 14th October 2016 until the 31st of December 2016. This will mean that no further interest will accrue until the 31st December 2016 and we will not consign to sale until on or after the 31st December 2016."  I did not hear from them again until  08 February 2017. On 30/03/2017 I responded to Borro request that I give them an update on the accounts. I wrote that I needed a settlement figure.  No response the following week I personally met with the manager I had been dealing with. She told me that " we are not going to sell your property". We understand that you have fallen on hard times, we are human. How long will it take you to sort this out. I responded about 2 months."   I did not hear from Borro again until I wrote to them on 18/03/2019 where I stated, " the last time we met you were going to give me a settlement figure". There was no response. As a result, on  18 March 2019 I sent  an email to - Subject: RE: Borro Accounts. Dear Lender. Hello. The last time we met, you were going to give me a settlement figure. Litigation is still ongoing. We have a potential investor that has asked me to get a figure from you. Depending on that number, I can let you know if I can pay the bill and collect my things in the next few weeks. Please get in touch as soon as possible". no response.   In early July 2019 I received a call from someone at Borro. It was not a good time. I asked him to call me back the following week. I did not hear from him again either. On  6 august 2019 I received an email from Borro that I should log into my account. I was unable to. The following week I wrote to them and in summary: On 13/08/2019 I wrote and included a summary of the events: I am writing to advise you that I am obtaining advice concerning the  account. You are aware that you have not pursued any further action on this account since approximately 2014(or earlier) . This is because I had an agreement with Name Deleted that Borro was not “going to sell my property,  I recited the above summary of events.   Certainly, I had no intention to give up valuable property for almost 8 years and pay interest and principal for this long. I want to develop a resolution to the matter between us. In order to achieve this, Please can you provide me with the following information which is attached in a spreadsheet: I need a very simple accounting and please answer the below: Any renewed loans where additional credit was extended through the re-appraisal of the assets ( ie using the asset as leverage) to extend further credit where the loan proceeds were applied to the loan for reinstatement purposes. What were the source of funds for the last payment made? Because I am seeking advice with a view towards finding a resolution, I would appreciate it if you could hold action on the above account for a period of at least 30 days to give me the time  I need to obtain advice. If you are adding interest or other charges to the account, I would be grateful if you would freeze these during this period so that my debt does not continue to increase. Please can you send me the enclosed spreadsheet and the documents you loaded into my account as soon as possible. This will enable me to obtain accurate advice. I will contact you again as soon as possible with further details of a  proposal to resolve the account. ( so far this lender has not complied with my request)   SETTLEMENT OFFER From: Borro Customer Service <Contact@borro.com> Sent: 14 August 2019 13:22 To: Subject: RE: Your Loan Account   Dear borrower. Thank you for your email and for getting in touch with Borro. As you would be aware there have been many loans with Borro, with two loans that remain outstanding which we are seeking to resolve with you. Given the significant period these have been overdue, the current balance on these two loans is almost £52,000 of which the majority is interest. In order for you to move on from this debt it is proposed to sell the collateral associated with Loan DIAMOND RING 175643 in full and final settlement and return all the items under Loan 198678 to you. This would generate a loss for Borro of approximately £49,000, however given your circumstance this is something we are prepared to offer. While I would love to pay Borro £3000. I do not currently have the funds. Borro is aware because I wrote to them on august 13 advising them i am not working. I do not want to lose my property. I need to find a way for them to walk away, give me my property back. WHAT ARE MY OPTIONS? Below are the questions I have or could raise in order to "negotiate with them". Is this a high interest short term loan? What are the effects of an CCA that has an interest rate of 93.6% and is renewed every six months? It appears that one loan was "Refinanced".  What FCA terms did they violate which might apply to this situation ? After the agreement expired and terms were changed, what rights does the PB have to collect further payments or sell the ring? Did they waive their rights to further payments? How can I use refusal to produce sale information concerning the first ring, to negotiate my way out of this? What is interesting is, they sold a £14,000 ring privately, concealed the buyer and other information, then turned around and INCREASED THE INDEBTEDNESS substantially. In fact they want to do this again, but this time are offering to  write off £49,000  in other interest. What am I missing? What effect does violations of FCA 6 and 7. help me to negotiate a settlement. Is the FOS effective threat to the firm to pressure a settlement? Does a cost cap apply to these loans and if yes what is the amount of the cap? How can I use the current appraisal and FCA or any other rules to stop them from selling the ring for less than market value? I have someone looking at the accounting to see if there are errors. found several when query. anything you can find that voids the agreements? Anything else you can think of THANK YOU!!!   RING.pdf art.pdf
    • I am so sorry I see the confusion now, I was meant to say CAB not CAG. They are just sending him letters to copy and send which doesn't seem helpful at all.    I also apologise for the vague details right now. I actually thought he had got rid of the car already until he mentioned it as he dropped me off home, so I've only got a vague idea myself, i just wanted to see if there was anything he could do other than send letters. I will get more details from him and update this thread, or get him to join as you have advised.  sorry 
    • It was a late payment, no default 
    • As he bought the car last year – well over six months ago, it's not at all clear that he will be able to terminate the contract. I think you need to let us know more about the car, new/second-hand/price/mileage and also the date of purchase. Also I think we need to have a list of the faults which occurred and which have been repaired and the faults which have occurred and which are outstanding. He will probably need to get these faults appraised by an independent inspector and also an estimate for repairs. It is highly likely that the best he can expect is to have the repairs carried out free of charge – but we need to know a lot more really. It really would be much more helpful if your brother would take control of this himself and come onto the forum and start posting a story. I don't fully understand how you say that he hasn't been here before and yet we are telling him to send letters which he thinks are being ignored.
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Séamus89

Advice Needed Regarding PayPal Chargeback

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Good evening,

 

I need some advice as I am having trouble with a charge back via PayPal for an item I sold back in early January.

 

I sold an Samsung Galaxy S8+ in early January 2018 via Gumtree,

I got an offer from a user (who's name on Gumtree did not match the one on his PayPal, this was an alias apparently) and we agreed to an offer so I sent him my PayPal details etc and he sent me his address.

 

I sent the phone via Yodel 48 which was booked via Parcel2Go and it was delivered the next day with a signature, however, I got some very abusive emails from the buyer claiming I never sent the phone and that I was ripping him off when I simply asked him if the phone had arrived ok.

 

A couple of days later I got an email from PayPal saying the buyer has submitted a charge back via his credit card company claiming the item never arrived and that my PayPal balance was now -£455.

 

I sent in all the evidence to the PayPal charge back team, copies of everything including the signature Yodel got on delivery but tonight I got an email back saying the charge back has been decided in the buyers favour which I find baffling.

 

I reported this to the Police a couple of weeks ago

I sent them the same information, all the emails etc and they decided to investigate it, I was asked to fill out a form on Action Fraud to get a crime number,

 

a couple of days later (Saturday just gone) I got a call from the investigatory officer saying they had interviewed the buyer and he still claimed that the phone never arrived and denied everything even though there is a signature (I can't see Yodel delivering to someone random).

 

I was told by the officer that she had spoken to the forces fraud department, however, due to reasonable doubt they would not be able to take this any further, she said to me 'someone could have been sat on the side of the road waiting for the van and then signed for the item' which again I find baffling and I was advised to take it to a small claims court but if I can't get the support from PayPal and the Police, what chance do I have in the County Court?

 

I have had the phone blocked but I am still down £455 plus a £14 charge back fee.

 

Does any one have any advice for me, I could really do with some.

 

Many thanks in advance.

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Do you really need the PayPal account ? If not, just forget about it and ignore any letters/emails. PayPal will persist for a while, but they don't do court. Don't forget to de-approve your paypal direct debit with your bank.

 

If you really need another PayPal account, just use a different card/bank account, a slightly different name and a different address. You can add your current name/address as a delivery address, which after a successful delivery will be 'confirmed'.

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I couldn't care less about PayPal (but I appreciate your comments, i'm not having a go at you), it's the scummy buyer I want to go after, he can't be allowed to get away with this!

 

The Police's logic is pretty stupid, they basically told me that any one can order or buy anything on-line, have it delivered to and signed for but then claim you never signed for the products purchased, do a charge back and get your money back because the police can't prove it beyond reasonable doubt because 'someone may have been waiting on the road for the delivery van and signed for it.'

 

Bizarre.

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As you have your money and haven't suffered a loss, you can't really do anything about people like that. That is why you ALWAYS withdraw your paypal money before sending goods.

 

Unfortunately, the police are right. The signature is your protection if a buyer decides to sue you, claiming that they didn't receive their goods.

 

Mobile phones are a prime target for dodgy buyers. I would never post a phone, always have the buyer collect. Just put it down to experience and move on.

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One of life's lessons, I will never post a phone etc ever again, collection only. (Thing is, the buyer owns his own company, I have no ides why he's lying about it)

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Police are correct.

You have been scammed and 'donated' a Galaxy phone.

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yep

 

dunno who forces fraud department is....


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It could be the buyer who is pulling a fast one or someone who saw the courier, picked a key from the pocket and pretended to enter the address.

Check the buyer recent purchases and see how many phones he's bought lately.

He maybe a serial offender.

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you NEVER accept paypal for anything that peopel collect in person or want sending to an address that the paypal account is not registered at.

You have fallen for the oldest paypal trick there is. You wont be the last though but people make a living looking through gumtree for such things

when it was easier to go so I used to have an ebay account specifically for wrecking these sorts of peoples activities adn did this in unison with other like minded people. You would be surprised to see how many different people live in a chip shop in Shepherds Bush when buying phones and the like

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