Trinity College Cambridge/proserve notice of trespass No Stopping - Trinity Distribution park Felixstow Docks

[lmc1977]

hi

my husband works as self employed hgv driver,

 

back in February the company he drives for received a trespass notice from proserve

I appealed it as his brakes had lost air so would been dangerous for him to drive til air built back up which was 5 mins,

they rejected appeal and wanted their 250

 

now less than a week later they are wanting 350 with a threat that if its not paid he wont be able to access the roads around the dock ...

 

.in doing so making it impossible to do his job

[honeybee13]

Hello and welcome to CAG.

 

Would you be able to upload anonymised copies of the correspondence for us to look at please? pdf is best, it's in the upload guide.

 

Best, HB

[DragonFly1967]

Trespass notice from a PPC? That's a new one.

 

You also mention a docks, which will make this a byelaws case. We definitely need to see what's been received and then we can start ripping it apart.

[lmc1977]

have done my best with pics but if they are not ok will get someone to help me later

Proserve1.pdf

Edited March 19, 2018 by DragonFly1967
Added combined PDF file

[ericsbrother]

Where?

Proserve have a peculiar contract with some landowners at Felixtowe and other industrial sites and the courts have decided that these rip off fees are enforceable as it is a business to business contract rather than one that would be covered by the CRA for content.

 

If it is at Ransomes park in Ipswich the signage there is prohibitive so it means that they cant charge you a thing as only the landowner has that right

but i believe that this has been the subject of a court anyway as the landowner signed a contract with Mr Duff that costs them the money if the lorry driver doesnt pay.

 

Also they are not a member of an ATA so how did they get the information regarding your address?

If they used the DVLA then they have broken the law and that was the subject of a court case all of its own as Proserve are barred from accessing the details.

 

Your hubby may well get a demand from ransomes as the landowner because Proserve cant take this much further

but the problem is the threat of banning him from their land can be enforced by the landowner and as already said

 

they have a compact with the devil here so will do what they can to limit what they have to pay to Proserve and if that menas punishing people unfairly then they will do so.

 

However, you say you appealed so if this appeal was against a ticket slapped on his lorry then you have made it possible for Duff to continue with this charade.

 

I wish you had come here first

Edited March 19, 2018 by honeybee13
Paras

[DragonFly1967]

I have combined the images in to a single PDF and redacted the reference numbers.

[lmc1977]

hi

the land is Felixstowe dock

 

the appeal was in reply to notice in post

 

the company he works for was contacted then passed details to them

 

hi thank you

[ericsbrother]

I am trying to find out how the original ticket was issued as Duff at proserve is banned form accessing the DVLA to get the info.

You need to tell us everything rather than us having to drag each small detail out of you.

 

SO everything please, dates times EXACTLY where, who said what to whom when they took photos ( did they?) sight of the ticket issued ( he will have to get this from whoever if they sent it to a third party. HOW was the Co identified as being the employer and so on. ANYTHING you can glean helps

 

There is a big data protection issue here that could result in your hubby getting satisfaction by suing for the unlawful processing of his personal data but we need to know which tree to throw stones into to hit that particular monkey

[lmc1977]

hi sorry it seems you having to drag the info

but after reading previous reply i assumed i wasn't really going to have much luck going up against them

 

The company my husband sub contracts for had the first trespass notice through the post,

notice dated 9/2/18

they say date of offence was 8/2/18

they then informed preserve who the driver was,

we then got the same notice through the post to our business address which was dated 19/2/18 .....

 

.both notices have photographic evidence of lorry stopped for 5 mins in disused entrance to a yard (so not even on the road)

we then appealed to them giving the air loss from brakes a reason as obviously dangerous to drive with no brakes

 

i got a letter dated 8/3/18 back saying they got my appeal on 7/3/18 and had investigated it and they wont uphold it saying i need to provide further evidence ....

..this letter i received middle last week now

 

yesterday i had further letter saying pay up 350 or they will stop him being able to use the dock

Edited March 22, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[ericsbrother]

WHOSE lorry is it?

Does it have great big logos all over it or what?

 

As said, they cant apply for keeper details so they must get their info from elsewhere to issue ther tickets and this has been already asked for so we can help unpick this.

 

We also need the EXACT location not in a diused yard, we cant look disused yard up on an aerial photograph and no such address on google streetview.

 

Also post up the letters they have sent with personal details redacted, they cant stop him using the docks as they dont own it.

[DragonFly1967]

Also post up the letters they have sent with personal details redacted, they cant stop him using the docks as they dont own it.

 

Post #4 EB

[ericsbrother]

I want to see the letters to the company if at all possible to determone how they gpt the details in the first pace.

 

As for therio response they are damned by their own evidence, they said they had CCTV of the driver getting out and adjusting a hose lock so they know that there was an event that caused the vehicle to stop rather than free will.

 

Probably best to get pictures of the signage before doing anything else to see if it has changed BUT if they try and ban the lorry just call the police as they have no authority to do so. This was dealt with in court in 2014 so just a threat.

 

Proserve cant do court either as they have been paid by the landowner according to their contract. It is a very convoluted probem but ultimately Proserve wil lose if they do. What theyr=try and do is fill out the paperwork on behalf of the landowner but again they have been instructed to desist fro this so if they try that one on an automatic lose for the claimant and possibly contempt

 

What you need is nerves of steel rather than any extra reasons to resist this. Also, I belive that their contract with the landowner sees £150 changing hands, not £250 or £350

Edited March 23, 2018 by honeybee13
Paras

[ericsbrother]

still need to know when date of event was, original tickt was issued etc. get copies from employer if possible because hubby could take this on by using a different method as Bidwells are the clients, not the landowner.

[lmc1977]

hi here is aerial view and a photo of said entrance the address is Nicholas way

 

the date of said offence was 8/2/18 the first notice sent to the company which owns the lorry was dated 9/2/18

they then told preserve who the driver was and we received notice dated 19/2/18

 

I have already uploaded everything I have received but if you would like me put it on again I can

will ask him to get photo of signage today if he can and I will add later

 

I assume they got the companys name off cctv as logos all over it

parking.pdf

[ericsbrother]

WHAT IS WRITTEN ON THE LORRY THAT ALLOWS THEM TO IDENTIFY IT?

It is all very well saying that you assume that they got the info from the lorry but we still need to know because they have certain procedures to follow.

 

This is about a claim for trespass so the College are the real claimants but Duff has a very convoluted way of making money by claiming to act for the landowner when he doesnt.

 

You will need to read all about it so google proserve court ruling and also read the parking pranksters blog on their activites as they are too convoluted to explain properly. Inshort Proserve grabs lorry details and bills the lorry firm and then creates a bill to send to the landowner for the same claiming thay are required to pay LL for the breach. that forces the landowner to allow Proserve to act on their behalf or they lose money BUT proserve dont actually have the authority to do so but most people dont know this.

 

they got clobbered for falsely signing hundreds of court claim forms so now they threaten to ban you from the docks.

that would result in Duff going to prison if someone got an injunction against him for this unlawful act (not HIS docks are they?) but time and cost means that most companies cough up the £250 ( Duff actually pays £150 so make £100 out of this)

 

As said, complicated but if hubby doesnt pay then the landowner can sue for trespass citing a loss that isnt real as the reason for claiming a fortune rather then 1p for the damage to the tarmac that is actually their true cost

[lmc1977]

It has the name of the company he subs for written in big letters all over it which is why I covered photos on the notice that I put on here I suppose the only real way of knowing is to ask dvla? I had read that can take up tp 40 days to get a response

I did start reading about a court case but was under the impression as it was at ransomes europark all different rules applied

[silverfox1961]

Phew! I have just read the appeal (again) from Proserve

 

http://tinyurl.com/ycodfybb

 

Soit would appear that they are only getting the company details from the lorries and not from the DVLA.

 

It is also noticeable that Ransomes appealed to the Norwich County Court against another driver and they were awarded £97.50

 

http://nebula.wsimg.com/9affd33a546f3bede2a79108adba3bd3?AccessKeyId=4CB8F2392A09CF228A46&disposition=0&alloworigin=1 (hope that link works)

 

I wouldn't be paying them a penny. Let Mr Duff take action. I doubt he will get anywhere near that sum demanded.

 

One other thing to note. On the google image uploaded, you parked by a disused entrance, not on the actual roadway. Technicality? Possible.

[ericsbrother]

the contract will be of the same nature, why on earth would you think it to be totally different? We are trying to help you and it looks like you are of the mind that all is lost whenit isnt, never give up.

 

So they will have got the details from the lorry and the company were then stupid enough to hand over the driver details instead of telling them where to go (only driver can be liable, not vehicle owner.)

Edited March 28, 2018 by honeybee13
Paras

[lookinforinfo]

I don't wish to hijack this thread but in the Court hearing with Proserve [ref Silverfox post 17] I was surprised the amount of info the DVLA allegedly say they want prior to release of motorists's data. Especially that they need to see the agreement between the landowner and the car parking company.

 

Yet time and again in Court we read that there is either no agreement or the agreement is insufficient to allow the car parking company to take the driver/keeper to Court.

 

So does the DVLA not understand their own regulations or rely on the fact that the ATA stipulate that their clients must have that permission to be a member. We are all aware on here that most members of either ATA do not conform to the Law let alone the ATA regulations.

Edited March 29, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[ericsbrother]

Duff is not a member of an ATA so he cant do all this on scouts honour.

This doesnt actually stop him from asking for keeper details, he just cant use the automated system.

 

However, to access details on an individual basis would cost him a fiver instead of £2.50 and he wouldnt get the details in time to fulfil the POFA requirements.

His arguments that he was a superhero and should have the same rights as a member of an ATA didnt wash.

 

The DVLA claim they do a quality control on the parking co's but this appears to consist of asking them if they have complied on a random access request and the DVLA certainly dont ask all the relevant questions and if the parking so's fall short all they need to do is say that this is an aberration and all of the other requests were correct, honest guv and they get to carry on as before. Like with POPLA it is not in the DVLA's interest to ask too many questions because then they would lose millions in revenue and possibly have to answer some very awkward questions in parliament or a court.

Edited March 29, 2018 by honeybee13
Paras

[kregrs]

hi here is aerial view and a photo of said entrance the address is Nicholas way

 

the date of said offence was 8/2/18 the first notice sent to the company which owns the lorry was dated 9/2/18

they then told preserve who the driver was and we received notice dated 19/2/18

 

I have already uploaded everything I have received but if you would like me put it on again I can

will ask him to get photo of signage today if he can and I will add later

 

I assume they got the companys name off cctv as logos all over it

 

Sorry to drag up an old post, but being a regular at Felixstowe docks and surrounding area I thought I might be able to add some details.

 

The pic is of an entrance to either Pentalvers or ACS container yard, and Mr Duff and his merry band of men regularly park their van there. Both container yards (Pentalvers has 2, one on Nicholas Road and the other on Fagbury Road) often struggle with the volume of vehicles using the yards, queues build quite quickly and Proserve seem to manage the queues, sending vehicles to wait elsewhere and giving them a timeslot to return.

I myself have fallen prey to Proserve in the past, and they must use some form of obtaining details, the occasions I fell victim to them I was driving an unmarked (plain) lorry with no details of the haulier visible!

On the 2 occasions that I received a parking notice, I managed to not pay and didn't get anywhere near a courtroom. One haulier caved in and paid after I refused to, and the other one I argued the toss with Proserves 'legal representative' (ahem) via email to the point he stopped replying...

 

As for vehicles being banned from the docks over a Proserve ticket, there has been one haulier banned in the past, but I think that was overturned quite quickly. How they'd ban an individual driver, the only way I can think of would be to cancel their RHiDEs card, but as they're issued and dealt with by Port Police I can't see how they'd go about it.

[ericsbrother]

How long ago was the plain lorry clobbered? reason is that Mr Duff spent a fortune at court trying to get the right to access the DVLA database and failing to do so but before that he was allowed to and got banned becuase of his dishonesty, hence the court battle. Another thing that sometime occurs is that one organisation gets the details for someone who isnt alloed to and passes it on. Completely illegal but the DVLA dont seem to be interested in stopping this and thus it is down to the wronged individual to sue for the breach of the DPA/GDPR

[kregrs]

The one where Proserve gave up would have been about October 2014, and the one where I bounced it back to the haulier would have been around April/May 2015.

[ericsbrother]

probably before he ultimately got clobbered for abusing the access to the DVLA database