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Judgment Set aside - should compo be claimed for?

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Hello!

 

This site has proven of great help.

I am posting here on behalf of my nephew.

 

to cut it short, nephew was supposedly parked in an Ibis hotel car park and was not a guest.

 

Received a ticket from Civil Enforcement Limited

. He ignored it because it was not his vehicle having repeatedly told them.

 

As a result, they took nephew to court.

He was able to set aside the judgment because the claim form didn't specify what the amount being claimed for was and also, it was not signed by a 'person", but by a company.

 

I accompanied him to court and the judge set aside the judgment.

Nephew received a letter following on from court hearing where it said:

  • 1. The judgment against AU dated 27th Nov be and hereby set aside.
  • 2. Claimant to file and serve a fully particulated Particulars of Claim by the 5th March
  • 3. Defendant to file and serve a defence by the 19th March
  • 4. Direction Questionnaires by the 9th April.

 

Nephew spoke to court and they advised C's have not filed a particulars of claim.

 

Question is - should nephew still file his defence? AND

 

Can he counter claim for compensation?

 

Many thanks,

Jay

Edited by dx100uk
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Moved to private parking

 

You can't counterclaim for your costs

 

File the defence

Knock up a costs order and give it to the judge on the day


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

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Unfortunately, the only way to get back the costs for the set aside is to win the case.

 

Now that's it's been set aside, it's as if the case has not been heard. So neither side has won or lost.

 

However, the set aside fee could be claimed as part of your expenses (but not necessary granted) if they take your Nephew back to court and your Nephew wins.

 

However, if the PPC decides not to take it back to court, there's no way to get the £255 back unless your Nephew initiates a claim against them. That's going to cost even more money and the result is only 50/50 at best. :|

 

 

So hopefully, the PPC will fancy their chances and take it back to court, although if they haven't filed a new PoC, that doesn't look very likely I'm afraid. :-(

 

 

All of the above aside, do what dx100uk suggests

 

File the defence

Knock up a costs order and give it to the judge on the day

 

At least that way no one can claim or suggest that your Nephew has not complied with the order.


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Hello!

 

Many thanks for this :) again invaluable advice!

Sorry for this question - but how would he go about drafting a costs order? And what can he claim for? I don’t want him to go crazy with it - something reasonable and an amount that has a chance of winning in court.

 

Any advice/guidance, will be greatly appreciated.

Jay

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It's basically just a list of any costs incurred in defending the claim. Again, this is only going to be of any use if the PPC take this back to court.

 

1. The set aside fee

2. Any travel expenses to get to the court. Including parking (the Judge will appreciate the irony)

3. Any lost earnings of taking the day off to attend court (doesn't work if you're self employed). Ideally get a letter from the employer stating wages lost.

4. Any other costs reasonably incurred by preparing and defending the claim. Which may include LiP rates. 5 Hours @ £19 per hour if you can't prove financial loss in other ways.

 

Don't send that with the defence, that's for production at court on the day if it goes that far.


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Okay thank you DF.

So if it doesn’t go to court - which seems to be the case since CEL have not filed a particulars - then there isn’t a chance of winning costs back? Did I read that correctly?

 

Thank you.

Jay

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Unfortunately not unless your Nephew issues a claim against them. Whilst it's easy enough to issue a claim, it's going to be more complicated to quantify and carries a risk of just throwing good money after bad. As I said, the outcome is 50/50 at best.

 

Whilst this means that they 'get away with it', at least there's not the problems that can be associated with having a CCJ.

 

 

Rewinding to the start of the thread, you said that this wasn't your Nephews vehicle and he told them that. I'm wondering how they got your Nephews name & address.

 

Was this a vehicle that he'd sold on, or something else?


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Hi DF

 

Okay, I’ll take your advice on board.

And correct / he sold on the vehicle but the new driver basically was the one who parked in ibis hotel car park.

 

But he didn’t even keep a receipt or sales invoice. He’s only 18. So this will be a lesson learnt for him.

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I've read this thread very briefly – but so far I tend to disagree that there is no chance of getting costs.

 

The claimants have failed to comply with the order. Therefore I would suggest that a defence is put in which simply says something like

The claimants have failed to comply with the order of the district judge dated XXX in that they have not filed a particulars of claim.

Accordingly the defendant denies any liability but is unable to plead more specifically as the claimant has not complied with the order of the court and has failed to detail the claim.

Therefore the defendant requests that the claim is struck out and that the court orders that the defendants costs incurred so far be paid by the claimant.

This defence is being served on the claimant as ordered by the court

 

Statement of truth

 

If you think I have missed something let me know – but clearly the case is not over yet and you have an opportunity to get in and exploit the claimants lack of compliance with the order and of course the order for costs should be pretty well automatic.

 

The deadline has been set for 19 March so he needs to get this in without any delay. Deliver it or email it or fax it to the court so it gets there by close of business on Monday the 19th.

 

He has also to serve it on the claimants. Frankly I would post it off on ... :lol:


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Hmmm, I hadn't thought of that. Might work and certainly nothing to lose by trying.


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Thanks BankFodder - I was hoping you'd have something to say, thanks for that.

 

So he can claim the costs.

Can he also claim anything else? Are there examples of what other members have claimed for and were awarded?

If he can claim other things, can he mention it in the same defence, last line or something?

 

Thankfully where he lives, the court is like a 5 minute drive. We are trying to write the defence tonight and on his way home, he plans to hand deliver it so its there for Monday 19th March.

 

Nephew rang the court today to ask where we send the defence, thats when he found out C's never filed their particulars. But the clerk said they will make a copy and send to C's - is that normally the case?

 

Thanks,

Jay

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It doesn't mean he wall get them - but he might as well do this because it won't cost him anything extra - so why not.

Of course, it's a shame that he didn't ask for costs in the original application.

 

I don't think that he can ask for anything else.

 

Also - the POC deadline has only just passed, they might still put one in and unfortunately the courts are pretty slack about respecting deadlines so don't be surprised if the fat lady still has to sing


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IF CEL's actions were unreasonable then he can apply for a costs order under CPR 27.14.2(g) No harm in asking as long as he can sjow that he tried to sort the matter out before a claim was submitted.

What I dont understand though is why he failed to defend the original claim, is there a good reason such as they sent the papwerwork to the wrong place? Half a story will result in advice that doesnt necessarily suit the situation and this wold be the case here if the reasonableness test can be pointed in both directions

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Hi EB -

 

I spoke to nephew - he simply ignored it because he thought it would have been handled by CEL, as he tried to explain the situation of the car being parked was not down to him. So tbh, it was his fault aswell. Thankfully, after doing some reading online, we found similar claims by CEL being struck out because they don’t fill out the particulars properly nor follow the CPR etc.

 

I will write up a defence based on BankFodders advice.

 

Question - what’s the maximum he can claim for costs relating to the application?

Not the extra costs such as taking time off work etc.

am unsure as both he and I don’t know what the costs are to go through set aside.

 

Thanks a lot guys!

Jay

Edited by dx100uk
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£255...but as stated by BF you should have already requested that within your application to set a side.What else does it state on the order post #1 if any party fails to comply with that order?

 

Andy


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difficult to say without knowing what will happen next but I suspect that they will just drop their hands to avoid costs and then he gets nothing.

 

Knowing what the original claim says and what paperwork he has to show they didnt follow the protocols of the POFA would be a massive help as all of the fault can then be pointed out and he may well recover the set aside fee at this point and certain costs if they decide to continue with the claim (unlikely)

 

As you have such a short time he should put in his statement that he is claiming his set aside costs on the grounds that the original claim failed to meet the requirements of CPR 16.4 ( statement of facts) so mention the CPR's and fingers crossed.

 

List of costs as well so set aside fee, any postage/printing costs.

 

Given more time to research we could bury this now but this will have to do.

Edited by dx100uk
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