Arrow/shoos Ordinary Civil Bill [NI] - old HBOS Card debt

[BJ6605]

Hi,

 

A relative has asked for help regarding a credit card debt - original

lender HBOS for £5k - dating back to 2012. Last payment made was Nov 2012 and the debt has since been sold to Arrow Global Ltd last year, 2017.

 

A letter arrived today from Shoosmiths (who I can see from other threads are the in- house solicitor for Arrow). I have attached a copy of that letter to this thread.

 

I am trying to offer advice to my relative but I am not sure whether this letter is a legitimate and genuine threat of court action or simply Shoosmiths phishing, given that the debt is rapidly approaching the 6 year point and, presumably, being statute barred.

 

Can anyone offer any advice on what steps, if any, my relative should take at this point? As at today she has made no contact with Shoosmiths, the Court named in the letter or the original lender although she is beside herself with worry over the issue.

 

Any advice is appreciated.

 

Should also mention...the relative lives in Northern Ireland and the letter refers to an 'Ordinary Civil Bill'.

docs1.pdf

[dx100uk]

what was the last actual payment date please?

 

thread moved to legals and retitled

[BJ6605]

Thanks for your quick reply dx100uk. Just contacted my relative to find out the exact date of last payment, it as definitely in 2012 but unsure exactly when.

 

I've asked her to check her credit file or ring the original lender.

 

In your opinion is this letter a definite attempt to instigate legal proceedings or simply phishing due to rapidly approaching the 6 year point? What would be the best method on stalling any potential court action?

[dx100uk]

its a court claimform.

get that info

[BJ6605]

Ok, thanks. She's just checked her Experian file and there is no record of the debt on there. Presumably she should ring the original lender to verify the date of last payment?

[dx100uk]

yes yes

that will tell us which wicket we're batting from.

then we'll deal with what needs to be done.

we don't see many NI claims but its almost the same as a E&W claimform in terms of dealing with it

sit on her and your hands

don't do anything without asking here 1st please.

[AndyOrch]

https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/nireland/law-and-courts/legal-system/taking-legal-action/small-claims/small-claims-in-northern-ireland-ni/

 

County court

Procedure for debts over £3,000 - £15,000

Obtaining a Judgment in the county court can be a paper exercise, unless your claim is disputed.

 

Procedure

 

A civil bill is prepared, and then sent to the civil processing centre, together with a cheque for the court outlay of £155.00 (up to £5,000) or £185 (for anything over £5,000); it will then be stamped by the court and served on the debtor or their solicitor. The debtor has 21 working days after service in which to lodge a Notice of Intention to Defend.

 

Should the debtor pay within 21 days of receiving the civil bill, the debtor will only be liable to pay you the principal sum (i.e. the amount sought in the civil bill), applicable interest and recoverable fees awarded by the court (these are known as 21 day costs which are prescribed by statute and are detailed in the court fees section). You remain liable for any solicitor's costs.

 

If the matter is undefended, i.e. the debtor fails to respond within 21 days. An Affidavit of Debt will need to be prepared (usually by your solicitor) and signed by you. This must then be sworn in the presence of a solicitor. Once this has been done, all the relevant paperwork, together with a cheque for the court fee for marking judgment of £75.00, will be sent to the court and a county court Judgment (CCJ) will be obtained. This option does not normally require your attendance at court. Once a county court judgment has been obtained, the debtor is liable to pay the principal sum, applicable interest and a higher scale of recoverable costs. Again you will be liable for you solicitor's costs.

 

If a Notice of Intention to Defend is received, then the debtor has signalled an intention to dispute the debt and you will need to employ a solicitor if you have not already done so, in order to handle the court proceedings that will ensue. In this event, the issue of costs is one to consider very carefully, as fees for a contested matter are marked in accordance with the county court scale fees, which are significantly higher than for an undefended matter. If you were to lose a contested case, you would be liable for not only your solicitor's costs, but also the debtor's legal costs, which can be considerable.

 

The solicitor will advise you of your options in the event that the debtor lodges a notice of intention to defend.

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

lets hope its statute barred

 

its a reasonable to assume that if its not on the credit file then its SB'd

but that would depend upon if payments were regularly or not made prior to that period and the default was registered at a time before this period of no payments.

[BJ6605]

Thank you for your replies, Andy and dx100uk.

 

My relative contacted the original lender today and was informed that payments were made up until Oct 2014, via a DMP which subsequently failed. That obviously rules out using 'Statute barred' as a form of defence.

 

She is worried as how this is likely to pan out from here.

If it proceeds to court and a judgement is found in favour of Arrow, she will be unable to make payment in full and will struggle with monthly payments in excess of £20.

 

What would be the best course of action at this point?

She is considering contacting Shoosmiths directly, pleading her case, with an offer of £20 per month. Any advice?

[jon8214]

Don't be contacting Shoosmith at the minute tell your friend to sit on their hands

 

we have a bit of time yet

 

With an NI claim the claimant must attach all their evidence to the claim form

 

Can you post up redacted copies of everything that your friend has received?

 

From - https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/nireland/law-and-courts/legal-system/taking-legal-action/small-claims/small-claims-in-northern-ireland-ni/#h-starting-a-claim

 

In some circumstances, additional documents need to be attached to the particulars of claim. For example, if the claim is based on a written agreement, such as an agreement to purchase goods or services, a copy of the agreement should be attached to the statement of claim.

[jon8214]

All you need to redact are account numbers, reference numbers, names and addresses

 

leave dates etc for us to see

[BJ6605]

Thanks Jon, I will pass that info on. All that has been received, so far, is the letter from Shoosmith (post #1). I will ensure everything else is posted on this thread as and when it is received. Your help and advice is really appreciated.

[dx100uk]

read upload please

did they attach anything

doesn't look like it?

 

get a CCA request running to the CLAIMANT.

[jon8214]

DX im investigating how to request documents from a claimant in NI small claims the same was as a CPR in E&W

[dx100uk]

as with Scotland there is no CPR??

[jon8214]

Andy, DX ive found under The County Court (Amendment) Rules (Northern Ireland) 2013 -

 

6. In Order 5 for rule 3 substitute—

 

“Notice for further particulars

 

3.—(1) In any case to which Rule 2(4) does not apply, the defendant may require the plaintiff, by notice in writing served within 14 days after service of the notice of intention to defend, to furnish further particulars of claim within 14 days of service of the notice for particulars.

 

(2) In any case to which Rule 2(4) does not apply, the plaintiff may require the defendant by notice in writing served within 14 days after service of the particulars of claim or where no notice for further particulars of claim has been served, within 14 days of service of the notice of intention to defend, to furnish particulars of any defence, set off or counterclaim within 14 days of service of the notice for particulars.

 

(3) Where under paragraphs (1) and (2) particulars have been duly required and—

 

(a)have not been furnished within the time specified in the notice; or

(b)if furnished, are in the opinion of the judge or district judge insufficient;

the judge or district judge may make such order as he thinks just including, in particular, an order that the proceedings be dismissed or, as the case may be, an order that the notice of intention to defend be struck out and judgment be entered accordingly.

 

From the unammended Rules, rule 2 ,4 states -

 

2.-(1) The plaintiff shall set out in his civil bill particulars of his claim

 

(4) A plaintiff suing for the recovery of a book or shop debt or other running account shall, unless such particulars ate adequately set out in the civil bill, furnish full particulars of his demand within a reasonable time before, or at the time of, the service of the civil bill; but the judge may dispense with this requirement if in any case he is satisfied that it is unnecessary.

 

 

I think this Rule is the equivalent of the CPR 31:14 that is used in E&W

 

I wouldn't have the knowledge of legal speak to be able to reference this in a letter to the claimant but maybe one of you can?

 

it seems that you can only request the documents after the claimant has served notice of his intention to defend.

 

it also appears that the claimant has 14 days to comply or else it can be struck out

[jon8214]

delete

[dx100uk]

the same thing applies in Scotland its not a CPR its a request for documentation

we don't typically use it in Scottish claims as it costs money to intimate it

and the Scottish reply form gives a box to file a written defence

not sure if the civil bill reply form does i'm yet to look at them

 

I mostly now understand the Scottish SPC and ordinary cause routes so NI should be a breeze

should be doing so tonight.

[BJ6605]

Thanks for your help guys. I will ensure the CCA Request is sent off tomorrow. Quick question....should it be send to the original lender, to Arrow or to Shoosmiths?

[jon8214]

It goes to Arrow

[dx100uk]

was a form 126A sent to you with the claim form.?

[AndyOrch]

was a form 126A sent to you with the claim form.?

 

Not applicable DX thats for SCT...this is a Civil Bill...form 42 must be served on the Plaintiffs Sols....within 21 days after service.

 

 

Andy

[dx100uk]

and I wish I could find a site like the scots gov or the eng one that gives the all the forms....

it appears you can only respond and get the forms online using the log in number on the civil claim..

nightmare...

 

cant find form 42 anywhere....Grrr.

[AndyOrch]

Will be similar to the following...this is a served outside Ireland but its all based on Order 42....ROI/NI

 

 

 

42.02

Notice of appearance and intention to defend a claim notice or civil summons served outside Ireland which requires an appearance

 

 

Schedule C

O.42, r. 1(4)

District Court Area of

District No.

Record number:

 

*In the matter of ........ Between

 

........ *Applicant/*Claimant

 

........ (in the above Court *(area and) district) ........ Respondent

 

NOTICE OF APPEARANCE AND INTENTION TO DEFEND

 

To: *(Solicitor for the *applicant/*claimant of........

TAKE NOTICE that the respondent intends to defend this *claim notice *civil summons.

 

Dated this... day of..... 20...

 

Signed:........

 

*(Solicitor for the) respondent of........

 

 

------------------------------------------------------

 

District Court Area of

District No.

 

Record number:

 

*In the matter of ........

 

Between

 

........ *Applicant/*Claimant

 

........ (in the above Court *(area and) district) ........ Respondent

 

NOTICE OF APPEARANCE AND INTENTION TO DEFEND

 

To: District Court Clerk at ........

TAKE NOTICE that the respondent intends to defend *this claim notice *this civil summons which is listed for the sitting of the District Court at ........ on the ...... day of ........ 20....

 

Dated this ...... day of ........ 20....

 

Signed:........

 

*(Solicitor for the) respondent of........

*Delete where inapplicable

[jon8214]

I’ve had a look for a form 42 as well and can’t find it

 

I live in NI I will call into my local court and see if I can get one from the clerk

 

I’ll also ask a few questions about the process

 

If Andy or DX require any particular info please let m know

 

Jon