Will a builders public liability insurance cover a claim for poor workmanship

[rogerfed 1]

Hello,

 

I had work done by a builder about a year ago, but since then I have had nothing but problems.

The beams in the roof have not been installed correctly, causing major cracks in the loft room and below, the windows have not been installed properly and many other issues.

 

Does anyone know if this sort of thing would be covered by a builder's product liability insurance?

 

He built and installed my roof incorrectly and also installed my windows wrong, which in turn has affected by brickwork.

 

Given that he built and constructed my extension, does that mean any faults found after he left can be claimed for, or would he have to claim for each and every fault that I have found.

 

By the way the builder has accepted that he did bad, so I am going to assume that if the insurance company play fair, they will pay out.

[dx100uk 8,752]

slightly retitled and moved to the building trade forum

[Still_surviving 36]

Public liability covers damage to members of public by the builders actions....ie tiles fall off roof and hit a member of public

 

Employers liability covers injury to builder and people working for him on site....ie someone falls off a ladder and cant work for 6 months

 

Product Liability Insurance is for where the product being installed is defective in some way....ie he installs a faulty electrical item and it cathes fire

 

Builders Professional Indeminity (quite rare) would cover against his mistakes and omissions

 

Contract Works Insurance covers jobs that are underway and get messed up by outside forces such as fire and flood.

 

Most builders of any repute would probably have 1 and 2, the rest is a maybe

 

Hope this helps....im not an insurance expert, just work for some brokers doing their books etc for 20 years and have heard lots of tales

 

You need to find out what cover he has.

[dx100uk 8,752]

I notice your title says public but you text says product..

which should be in your title?

[rogerfed 1]

thanks for the reply.

 

He has £10m product liability insurance. Given that he built my extension, would I be able to claim for multiple faults that have caused damage to my home, or would I have to put in several claims for each of the faults that have since caused damage? thanks

Edited January 15, 2019 by dx100uk
quote

[Still_surviving 36]

You need to get other opinions, but its my understanding that product liabilty insurance covers against installed goods being defective and causing damage to property. That ismt the same as a halfwit builder taking a good product and installing it badly imho

 

https://www.simplybusiness.co.uk/insurance/faq/what-is-product-liability-insurance/

[mariner51 696]

Your extension is now part of your property, so contact your Buildings Insurer and let them pursue the builder's Ins Co, if they believe you have a valid complaint.

[rogerfed 1]

Hi, could anyone help me with understanding the wording of the following clauses in my insurance policy? I have attached them to this post.

 

Also

 

Can anyone explain to me about public liability. If a builder's work causes a defect, how can it be so that the insurance company will only pay out for the damage under the public liability policy? Surely if they pay for the damage, but not the defective work, then they would be liable for the defect from occurring again?

 

Does anyone know what type of insurance would cover a builder if they breached a contract and if their work was defective?

 

thanks very much!

[rogerfed 1]

Under the Third Parties (Rights Against Insurers) Act 2010, does anyone know if a third party can complain to an insurer about the policy that was sold (in my case to a builder). My JCT contract stipulates the insurance was to be in both our names, but it would appear that both the builder and his insurer ignored this. I say this as the insurer needs to ensure they are selling the correct cover otherwise it would make them liable. Any thoughts?

[dx100uk 8,752]

please keep to one thread

 

threads merged

 

dx

[rogerfed 1]

Anyone got any thoughts?

Edited January 15, 2019 by dx100uk
quote

[dx100uk 8,752]

already answered in this merged thread

why do you keep asking the same questions or a slightly reworked question in new threads ??

 

however , just to show you are not alone

people have answered the same questions recently in another users thread

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462818-s75-of-the-Consumer-Credit-Act-I-have-a-builder-do-me-an-extension

[rogerfed 1]

I don't ask the same question.

I am in a 100ft hole and trying my best to find every conceivable way of getting myself out of it.

Why berate me for that?

Edited February 28, 2018 by dx100uk
quote

[dx100uk 8,752]

yes we well understand that

your problem is a dispute and breach of contract

the court is the only place to sort this out..

[Mwynci 519]

I agree, I think the op is coming at an angle of being able to access the builders insurance and force s claim through. It doesn’t work that way, you have to invoke any policy cover as the policyholder and have the right not to seek indemnity (I’m not going down this argument if anybody wants to disagree, it’s an easier answer for this posts purposes). The op has to raise an action, letter, call, email whatever against the builder.the builder will then decide if they would like to pass this to their insurer to seek indemnity.

 

Op do you have legal expenses cover under your own home insurance policy, they may assist.

 

Many people mess up with claims and complaints by looking for the

Edited October 27, 2018 by Andyorch
edited

[rogerfed 1]

Coming back to this, does anyone know why a house could not be considered a product? Surely a flatpack house is a product? Then why is a traditional house constructed or extended not also fall within the definition of a product? If an insurance policy defines a product as

 

Any commodity article or thing computer software or firmware (including its container packaging label and instructions for use) which is

(a) manufactured sold supplied processed altered or treated

(b) repaired serviced tested or maintained

© installed commissioned constructed or erected

by You or on Your behalf and which is no longer in Your custody or control

 

When then cannot it be argued that a house is a product? God knows the insurance wriggle out of any claim because of the policy wording, so surely I can argue they have to go by the wording of the policy. Obviously I know this is not what the insurance is for, but if I can find anyway of clawing back my losses, then I shall!

 

Any thoughts please?

Edited October 27, 2018 by Andyorch
edited

[BazzaS 3,303]

The product is the physical component.

The builder has taken the component and added their building services to create the house, which is the combination of the physical components and the builder’s service in putting it together.

 

It is still essentially the same question, asked a slightly different way, yet again.

I’m not “berating you”, and understand that you are desperate to hear the answer you want.

However, your desperation doesn’t mean that if you ask (essentially) the same question, yet again, trying to dress it up in such a way that you hear the answer you want : that you will get the answer you want, if the facts don’t support it.

 

The situation remains: your remedy is an action in contract against the builder, if you can:

a) win, and

b) enforce / recover any judgment sum.

[Yorkyclaims 26]

I may add my twopence here.

 

In my experience PL policies do not cover faulty workmanship, just the resultant damage. Turning to the original post IMO the beams would not be covered under the policy, but the cracks would be.

 

As to Public / Product Liability, if the damage was as a result of the beams failing then that would be Product, as there is something wrong with the product, however, if it was just shoddy workmanship that is Public.

 

Finally, as discussed the PL policy is the builders policy, not your policy, so if he is still trading you are unable to claim direct. He will have to seek an indemnity from the policy and you will have to sue the builder.

 

To sue the builder you have to issue court proceedings and you have 6 years to do that.

[rogerfed 1]

Just reopening this thread if I may.

 

I am still pursuing my claim!

But a quick question if I may?

If PL insurance just covers the damage caused by faulty work, but not the actual faulty work, would the complainant not keep coming back each and every time the problem arises (if the insurer refuses to fix the actual structural issue)?!

 

Also, has anyone ever claimed on an insurance policy against diminished value of a property after poor workmanship of a builder?

Or has anyone claimed for consequential losses as a result of a builder, again from an insurance policy?

 

Any advise please?

Edited January 15, 2019 by dx100uk
quote

[BankFodder 1,577]

I see that this thread has been meandering on for a year and it seems to me that we really don't know anything about anything here. You keep on asking about public liability insurance/product insurance. It's really not clear at all what the insurance is.

 

Let's ask some questions to which you should give a definite answer please.

 

Is your builder insured?

 

Who is he insured with?

 

Have you seen any documentation relating to the policy?

 

Is your builder cooperative in respect of you making a claim from his insurance?

 

 

 

… That lot for a start

[Ethel Street 1,412]

I still don't understand rogerfed why you are so focussed on the builder's insurance. As several people have said, but you seem to have ignored, if you have a claim against the builder bring a claim against the builder. Follow the pre action protocols and then start a county court action. The insurance the builder has is irrelevant to you as far as I can see from your posts.

 

Unless the builder has gone out of business or has no money to pay a county court judgement and you are trying to access insurance as, in effect, an asset.

 

A year ago you said that the builder's faulty work had caused cracks in the walls, the windows didn't fit properly and the brickwork had been damaged. So what has happened about those? have they been repaired? By who - the original builder or did you employ someone else? Who paid for the repairs?

[rogerfed 1]

Is your builder insured? Yes

 

Who is he insured with? QBE

 

Have you seen any documentation relating to the policy? Yes he has given them to me.

 

Is your builder cooperative in respect of you making a claim from his insurance? Yes fully. He has now gone bankrupt and so I am trying to claim directly off the insurer (via third party rights against the insurer act).

 

Also if anyone could help with these previous questions:

 

If PL insurance just covers the damage caused by faulty work, but not the actual faulty work, would the complainant not keep coming back each and every time the problem arises (if the insurer refuses to fix the actual structural issue)?!

 

Also, has anyone ever claimed on an insurance policy against diminished value of a property after poor workmanship of a builder?

Or has anyone claimed for consequential losses as a result of a builder, again from an insurance policy?

 

Finally, I signed a JCT contract with my builder, allowing for adjudication if needed.

 

Now that the builder is bankrupt, does his insurer have to enter into adjudication as per the JCT contract?

 

thanks again!

Edited January 15, 2019 by dx100uk
quote

[BankFodder 1,577]

If this is simply a public liability insurance then I think the effect of it has already been explained to you quite well earlier on in this thread. Unless you can show us something in the policy which says differently, then the insurance simply about covering people who suffer damage as a result of negligent building works. That doesn't seem to apply to you here.

 

If that had been the case then yes the rights of third parties act which you refer to was certainly have been very useful. Unfortunately you need an insurance cover which effectively acts as a guarantee of the quality of the builders work and as far as I can see from the information you have given us, that is not what you have here.

 

I can see that you are very concerned about it and I suppose that the value of making good the work must be very substantial. It's too late to say so now, but we have lots of people taking on builders who eventually go bankrupt or change the company leaving the customer with no fallback.

 

Builders often offer a lifetime guarantee over their work – but this always means for the lifetime of the company. Once the company no longer exists then there is no liability.

 

We have also had at least one example of a rendering company that was offering insurance backed guarantees. This is exactly what you need of course – however, not a single instance did anyone of his customers asked to see the policy and check that the policy was actually valid and in place. They regretted it after he went bankrupt and they discovered that there was no insurance.

Harvil Shaw did two years in prison – but it wasn't much of a comfort to his customers.

[Ethel Street 1,412]

He has now gone bankrupt and so I am trying to claim directly off the insurer (via third party rights against the insurer act).

 

That's a rather important bit of information it would have been useful to have known earlier!

[Yorkyclaims 26]

If PL insurance just covers the damage caused by faulty work, but not the actual faulty work, would the complainant not keep coming back each and every time the problem arises (if the insurer refuses to fix the actual structural issue)?! No. If successful you would get a cheque, not reinstatement. You would have to foot the bill for the actual faulty workmanship (or register as a creditor with the trustee)

 

Also, has anyone ever claimed on an insurance policy against diminished value of a property after poor workmanship of a builder? Yes, it can be done

Or has anyone claimed for consequential losses as a result of a builder, again from an insurance policy? Yes, it can be done

 

Finally, I signed a JCT contract with my builder, allowing for adjudication if needed.

 

Now that the builder is bankrupticon, does his insurer have to enter into adjudication as per the JCT contract? No. the Insurer is not a signatory of the contract.