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Hi,

 

Im desperately hoping someone can advise...

 

To cut a really long story short,

 

i took a career break from my bank job to care for my sick husband in 2012.

It left us with minimum income other than disability allowance and carers allowance as because i was still classed as employed we were told we couldnt claim any other benefit, not that we wanted to.

We never have had any state benefits.

 

My husband passed away in 2013 and i had to pay his funeral costs, half of which i paid upfront.

His family were meant to pay the other half but never did.

Subsequently the co-op billed me.

 

I had gotten in to a mess financially since still being off work,

entitled to no benefits and trying to deal with my own grief aswell as supporting my 9 year old daughter with hers.

 

Falling behind with mortgage payments and council tax i had to agree to pay almost double on them both to avoid reposession of the house and removal of goods for bailiffs.

 

I counted these as my priority debts and put everything else to the bottom of the list including the coop bill.

 

They issued a ccj against me which unfortunately then meant i couldnt go back to my old job (i work for a bank and policy is no ccjs).

 

I have since started up my own business and draw £100 a week wages when there is enough money to take of course.

I also now get working tax credits so a tiny bit better off.

 

The solicitors dealing with the case sent me an enforcement notification.

I rang straight away to see if i could make some kind of arrangement but they said no.

 

The original outstanding was £2200.

The ccj had £2900 and now ive had a letter through the door telling me its £3900!!

 

The bailiff has said in the letter he will come back and take my car. And other goods within 7 days,

 

i have tried to speak to the solicitors but they've said its pay the lot or nothing.

 

Ive submitted for n245 to the court with a copy if my income and expenditure but i really need a bit of advice.

 

Will the bailiff allow me to make payments by instalments or will they just keep coming back and taking my things

regardless of the fact i can prove i dont have the means to pay.

 

If they take everything i have and its still not enough what will they do then??

 

I feel totally helpless :(

 

Hoping for some/any kind of advice...

 

Shelley

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Has this been transferred to the High Court for enforcement? Who has come calling?


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Shelly,

 

Your post outlines a great deal of information regarding the background to the debt but very little about event following the CCJ to establish how the debt has risen to £3,900.

 

You say that the CCJ was £2,900 and that you have now had a letter 'through your door' demanding £3,900.

 

Before a personal visit you should have received a Notice of Enforcement from a firm of Enforcement Agents.

 

Did you receive this notice?

 

If so, did you contact the company to offer a payment proposal?

 

Which company is enforcing this debt?

 

Can you provide details of the fees that may be added on any of the notices?

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Hi, yes ive had the notice of enforcement.

 

I rang david wilson & co straight away but was told no installment plan could be arranged and i either paid the full amount

- quoted on their paperwork as £2900 by 4th feb or else bailiff would come and remove goods.

 

In meantime i completed and submitted the form to the court for a variation but havnt heard back yet.

 

I also emailed the original creditor with my income/expenditure and offer of payment

but was told all had to go through the solicitors

yet they sad they cant consider any offer!

 

I really dont understand what to do next..

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You say David Wilson & Co - do you actually mean Andrew Wilson & Co?

 

Maybe what they forgot to tell you is that they have no automatic right of entry to your home

& it wouls be a seriously BAD idea to allow them in.

 

Which Court did you send your N245 to

- it should go to the Court that originally granted the CCJ?

 

How long ago did you submit it & did you enclose payment for the application?

 

Have you applied for a Stay of Execution which if granted halts all further enforcement action & charges?


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Hi, yes ive had the notice of enforcement. I rang david wilson & co straight away but was told no installment plan could be arranged and i either paid the full amount - quoted on their paperwork as £2900 by 4th feb or else bailuff would come and remove goods. In meantime i completed and submitted the form to the court for a variation but havnt heard back yet. I also emailed the iriginal creditor with my income/expenditure and offer of payment but was told all had to go through the solicitors yet they sad they cant consider any offer! I really dont understand what to do next..

 

There is a significant difference with enforcement of judgments by High Court Enforcement companies (such as Andrew Wilson)

and this provides that if a payment proposal if to be agreed, the enforcement must attend the debtors premises on behalf of the creditor.

The fee for this stage is £190.

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Hi,

I sent it to the money claims address as that was the issuing court on the paperwork.

 

I sent the fee and the first payment as outlined in my proposal.

Yes sorry it is andrew wilson & co.

 

they will not enter in to any conversation regarding an installment plan

just said its out of their hands and the process will now run its course ie bailiff taking everything.

 

They also said as it has got to this stage ive had ample opportunity to pay so its my own fault.

 

I understand that mindset but surely there is something i can do?

 

Shelley

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You need to remember there is no right of entry

Keep door locked they can not force entry

 

The bailiff won't take everything if you deny them entry

Car is vulnerable depending on age of it


If i have helped in any way hit my star.

any advice given is based on experience and learnt from this site :-)

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Its 12 years old worth about £800 max

 

but without it id be really screwed as wouldnt be able to get to work easily :(

 

i know thats not their problem, hes already written it on the letter he posted :(

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Shelley did you also ask for a stay of execution pending the outcome of your variation order.- If not, the enforcement is still able to go ahead.

 

I would suggest you send a copy of the N245 to the HCEO.

It is a fact they cannot take control of your goods if they don't know what you have!!

make sure you keep your doors locked and if they do call you can speak to them from an upstairs window.

 

Tell them you are waiting for a reply to the N245 and that you will not engage with them unless the court orders otherwise.

 

They cannot take 'everything' there are many goods exempt from seizure for starters,

then they need to take into consideration if the remaining goods would satisfy the amount owed plus removal costs, plus auction fees etc.

 

Keep the doors locked and if you have goods of any value outside in sheds or detached garage get them to a safe place,

also if you have a car keep it well away from your house.

 

Try not to stress over things they will try every trick in the book to get you to part with money you haven't got

but the bottom line is they cannot get blood out of a stone.

 

Stay firm and let the court make the final decisions.

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Hi,

 

Yes sorry it is andrew wilson & co. they will not enter in to any conversation regarding an installment plan just said its out of their hands and the process will now run its course ie bailiff taking everything. They also said as it has got to this stage ive had ample opportunity to pay so its my own fault. I understand that mindset but surely there is something i can do?

 

Shelley

 

What date was the Notice of Enforcement and what date was provided on it for payment to be made?

 

Did you contact the firm within the period outlined (referred to as the 'Compliance Stage"?

 

Also, can you provide a list of the fees charged?

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when you get 5 mins too tell us about the CCJ, did you contest it - send a defence in?

 

 

or ignored it?

 

 

dx


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Hi All, Thank you so much for your replies, it helps to know there are people out there to help and advise!

 

The CCJ paperwork came through and i contacted the company directly to ask if i could put in to place a payment arrangement.

 

I knew if i received a CCJ i would be unable to return to my previous job at the bank.

They said the minimum they could accept was £100 and set a date for it to start.

 

I knew i would struggle as my priority debts (mortgage and council tax bailiffs) had to be paid first.

I emailed them before the first payment was due to tell them i was struggling and offered to send in my income and expenditure.

I did explain that once i'd gone back to work i'd be ok financially but they gave me a set date to pay it by.

 

I couldn't do much about it so missed it as was also coming up to christmas.

 

The CCJ was issued in December.

 

I had spoken to a couple of friends who said that i would then be able to send i&E to the court for them to decide what was an ok amount.

 

Stupidly, having never dealt with anything like this i thought the court would contact me to ask for this info.

 

Obviously they didn't and on the 23rd Jan i got the notice of enforcement through giving me up to the 4th Feb to pay.

 

The amount specified on the enforecement notice is £2849.89 plus interest of £6.88, plus compliance stage fee of £90 totalling £2946.77.

 

The original CCJ was for £2200.

 

I rang Andrew Wilson and Co and explained my circumstances.

They said that the only "installment" plan they could arrange was for me to pay it off in installments BEFORE the notice date of 4th Feb.

Bit unrealistic considering it was at this time about 4 days away!

 

I asked them for advise but all they kept saying was that they are not able to give legal advise.

I asked who i could go to to offer a payment arrangement to but the woman just kept repeating the above

and told me that the process had gone too far for that now and i either paid in full by 4pm on the 4th feb

or bailiffs would come and take everything i had.

Not a nice thought.

 

I know i owe the money but i did feel i had rather mitigating circumstances.

Particularly as i am now unable to get my husbands ashes buried by the coop

because of the debt adding further stress to the situation as everyone is constantly asking me why i havn't done it!

 

On the same day i rang them i looked on the net to try and find out what my options were.

I then sent in the form to the courts with a covering letter.

I also sent the same letter to the co-ops solicitors (the ones who had originally agreed the £100 a month arrangement

which was totally unrealistic for me at the time).

 

I had a response from them just saying their client would not accept my offer of payment

and that i had to now liaise with Andrew Wilson and co.

 

Andrew Wilson and co told me they couldn't help further so leaves me in an impossible situation.

What are my chances of the court agreeing to my offer based on my income and expenditure and the circumstances?

 

I havn't applied for a stay of execution i thought that was just for home possession orders.

Is there another fee for this and more paperwork?

 

The court havn't cashed my cheque from last week yet so god knows how long that will take.

 

The bailiff that came yesterday left the letter through the door which said

 

"Formal notice: Intention to take control of goods".

It says they have the power under the writ of control to the high court judgement to take control of goods

and remove up to the valueof the judgement together with costs and interest.

 

It goes on to say they have attended today with the intetion of removing the goods

and will attend again any time to recover the goods even in my absence.

 

Can they do that?

 

It says i must contact them immediately to stop this from happening.

 

It then says the total sum outstanding is £2974.07 so over £1000 more than the enforcement notice amount.

 

How is this justifiable?

 

I suppose my questions are

 

i am now sitting in my home scared to go by the window or if the door knocks what to do.

 

Will he now come and take my car regardless of whether i answer the door or not?

 

What if he is there when i return home on the night time or in the morning when i take my daughter to school.

 

Surely if we "bump" in to each other it would then be difficult for me to avoid him.

I really dont' know what to do next.

 

I was never my intention to avoid paying the debt it was simply just not possible at the time.

 

Thanks again everyone and so sorry for ridiculously long post !

 

Shelley

Edited by shell7t8

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Apply for a Stay they cannot attend if it is stayed, also apply for that Variation order so the court can set payments


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I have applied for the variation order but dn't know how far along it is.

 

I posted it special delivery to the court last week.

 

How quickly will they deal with the stay of execution?

 

I just don't know what i'm supposed to do if i open the door to go out and he is there,

 

what do i do then i can't just ignore him surely?

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Hi Shelley

 

You have done the right thing by applying for a Variation Order.

The chances are the Creditor and/or their solicitors will turn this down out of hand and it will possibly go to a Court Hearing for a Judge to decide.

As long as your I&E backs everything up then you should not be asked to pay more than you can afford.

 

A word of caution though & that is some people think they can still get away listing a full Sky Package

whereas a more basic offering is what they should have, this can also apply to other memberships you may have.

 

Don't misunderstand me I'm not saying you have done this but you have to be seen to be not living extravagantly.

The fee for this application was £50 but did you also know if you are on certain Benefits or a low wage

- inc self employed drawings

- you may be able to claim Fee Remission and can also claim where you have already paid fees,

please see Forms Ex160a & Ex160c for further details.

 

I have pointed the Fee Remission scheme out as you should also apply for a Stay of Execution but this time the Fee is £155.

 

If you wish to apply for a Stay then this time you need Form N244 and it is not quite straight forward to fill in but we can help with that.

 

Neither the Coops solicitor or Andrew Wilson will tell you of this as at the end of the day they just want the cash.

 

The paperwork you have from Andrew Wilson should give you a breakdown of the fees charged

- if not you must request what they have charged to date & for what

- it does sound as if they have charged both 1st & 2nd Enforcement Fees.

 

Unless he can gains entry to your home there is not really much he can do.

He cannot force entry & may only enter using usual means which is via the door,

if it is closed and unlocked then he may just walk in so make sure your external doors are locked at all times.

 

Meeting him outside is no great deal as he again cannot do much.

I note you say he has noted your car details and you estimate the value at £800

- I very much doubt he will bother as the cost of removing it to sell at auction would outweigh what he would receive for it

- auction value could be as little as £150.

 

An application for a Stay if taken in person to an appropriate Court can be heard & granted immediately in some cases.

If posted then I would hazard a guess at 4/6 weeks.


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I would consider a Stay of Execution is critical and essential.


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The bailiff that came yesterday left the letter through the door which said

 

"Formal notice: Intention to take control of goods". It says they have the power under the writ of control to the high court judgement to take control of goods and remove up to the valueof the judgement together with costs and interest. It goes on to say they have attended today with the intetion of removing the goods and will attend again any time to recover the goods even in my absense. Can they do that?

 

 

Shelley

 

Shelley,

 

It is important to make you aware that in the case of a CCJ transferred to the High Court for enforcement that the enforcement agent is under an obligation to 'take control of goods' (if he is able to) on behalf of the creditor. He cannot be criticised for attempting to enforce the writ and the wording on the letter is sadly correct but you there is more to this.

 

Firstly, on the point of 'removing goods in your absence'...what this means in practice is that if you are not at home when the officer attends but OUTSIDE of your home is an expensive lawnmower....a caravan...teak table and matching chairs, a motor vehicle etc then these could be taken. Most people receiving such letters read the contents in such a way so as to think that they could return from the school run/supermarket shop etc to find an empty house. This is not the case.

 

Second point it that you only have to allow a bailiff into the property if you want. It is not something that we would advise you to do.

 

Thirdly, the new regulations have provided that the vast majority of household items are 'exempt' in any event.

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Hi, thanks again.

 

On the sheet he has also written down my neighbours car - he wont just take that will he ??

Can they just take any car regardess of being able to prove who's it is first?

I really can't afford the £155 for a stay of execution at the moment :(

 

There is a number on the letter and it says to ring him to discuss it so that enforcement action can be avoided.

Is this just a trick or could i ring him to make an arrangement without him having to visit the house?

 

Shelley

Edited by shell7t8

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If you stay the writ he cannot come pending the Variation order, if no stay he can come but you don't have to let him in, as to the neighbours car, tell the clown that it is third party not yours and he takes it at his own risk, and he better ask Mr/Mrs/Ms? if they mind the car going for someone else' debt

 

He could list the friends goods, and would require proof of ownership of them. This one could end with the neighbour needing to provide docs to Andrew Wilson to prevent the neighbours car being taken and interpleader resulting.

 

You have had excellent advice from PT and the others, but you really should try to Stay the writ if at all possible


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I dont really understand about the stay of execution

- do i just complete the form and send it off with a cheque again to the same court?

 

The thought of having to go through 6 weeks of worrying about him coming is killing me.

 

Part of me thinks i should just get it over with and let him take everything

but it wont amount to the amount they are asking for

so in that case do they just keep coming back and taking replacement items??

 

Shell

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As for the cost of the application are you sure you do not qualify for remission,

it is a simple form & process and you should look at it.

 

Rather that send the form off for this it is much better done in person and can mostly be done at a Court close to where you live.

 

Please remember it is not a crime to be in debt to someone and the process I agree does sound frightening but if followed through correctly is pretty straightforward.


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I have just spoken with the court.

They have received the variation application and have forwarded it on to the claimant.

The lady said that they have 16 days to reply and that the bailiff action can continue in the meantime.

 

She said if they refuse the offer (their solicitor has already said they will refuse it as last week

i sent them a copy of what i was sending to the court with the hope we could come to the arrangement between ourselves)

then it will go back to them and a judge will make a decision taking in to account all of the circumstances as well as my income and expenditure as provided.

 

I have not listed anything excessive on there and have told the truth about how i am living.

I pay my priority amounts and live on very little,

i have no big sky or cable bills and do not have anything on HP or loans/catalogues etc.

 

I have got used to living like this but will struggle to replace furniture if the bailiff takes it all in the meantime.

I'm just worried about what to say to him if he is waiting when i come home or when i go out in the morning.

 

What would your advise be on that?

I have told my daughter not to answer the door and have been locking it as soon as i come in.

 

Should i contact the bailiff to tell him what the situation is re the variation? Will he come back every day?

 

I have sent correspondence regarding it to the claimant direct and also to the solicitors dealing with the enforcement.

 

The court told me that they have no record of the enforcement/writ so it is not them that issued it.

They said the stay of execution has to go to the issuing court but how do i find that out it is not on any of the paperwork

i have had so far and neither is a breakdown of the increase of £1000 to the amount payable.

 

Thanks everyone for your continued help and advice...

 

Shelley

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on the bailiff front you simply tell him the variation order has been sent to the court

and he should back off.

 

if you have a copy, do another one to give it too him.

 

you don't have to enter into any extended comms with him.

and you DONT have to let him in.

 

end of.


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Shell7t8 most of the information you are looking for should be on the Notice of Enforcement. I have put the info below which I have taken directly from the Act

 

Form and contents of notice

7. Notice of enforcement must be given in writing, and must contain the following information—

(a) the name and address of the debtor;

(b) the reference number or numbers;

© the date of notice;

(d) details of the court judgment or order or enforcement power by virtue of which the debt is enforceable against the debtor;

(e) the following information about the debt— (i) sufficient details of the debt to enable the debtor to identify the debt correctly; (ii) the amount of the debt including any interest due as at the date of the notice; (iii) the amount of any enforcement costs incurred up to the date of notice; and (iv) the possible additional costs of enforcement if the sum outstanding should remain unpaid as at the date mentioned in paragraph [h]

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