Lowell claimform - old vanquis debt

[SimpleMinds]

The date of the hearing is Friday 26th October 18. Thanks for the explanation re the twaddle.

Edited September 2, 2018 by dx100uk
quote

[dx100uk]

that's so far in advance I cant see postponement being an issue here

[SimpleMinds]

Ok. I'd appreciate an idea on what to send.

I'm leaving my friends shortly and will be back possibly in the week so if you have any suggestions on what to say by then that would be great. Thanks

[AndyOrch]

The date of the hearing is Friday 26th October 18. Thanks for the explanation re the twaddle.

 

Is this the trial date as per the courts directions ?

 

Have you yet to comply with the court directions in preparation for the hearing ?

 

 

Andy

[SimpleMinds]

The trial date is the 26th October 2018.

The document that came from the court says that the claimant must, by the 28th September 2018 (4pm) pay the trial fee of £170 or file a completed application (i think that is for help with fees).

 

If the claimant does not do this by the given timescale the case will be struck out "with effect from 28th September 2018 without further order and, unless the court orders otherwise, you will be liable for the costs which the defendant has incurred".

 

The document further goes on to the directions which state;

 

(1) - Each party shall deliver to every other party and to the court office copies of all documents (including experts report) on which he intends to rely at the hearing no later than 12 October 18.

 

(2) - The original documents shall be brought to the hearing.

 

(3) - Included in the copy documents shall be written statements of the witnesses (including the statements of the parties themselves)

 

I noticed that the agreement was assigned to Lowell on 04/08/2013 yet their "reconstituted" notice of assignment is dated "08 April 2013 - however, the actual notice of assignment Lowell sent is dated "11 April 2014".

 

I am in possession of a document that they firstly claimed was the notice of assignment but actually was just a letter "introducing lowell as a specialist debt purchaser" which is what was sent when the CPR and CCA was requested shows the figure they claim i owe to be £2463.43 yet on the claim form they try and claim £2660.50 before interest and solicitor fees. However, the actual default notice shows the balance to be £2239.13.

 

I am not at all clever when it comes to matters such as these but surely they can't get away with claiming what appears to be random numbers and with dates that are incorrect, three different balances?

 

What would be the general thoughts here about all these inconsistencies?

 

My friend just suggested that maybe sending a Subject Access Request to Lowell and also the original creditor Vanquis?

 

Sorry for another post, just want to run something by you kind people.

 

It occurred to me that the discrepancy in the figures might be due to the default balance and an arrears. The default balance is £2239.13 and then there is an arrears on the account of £324.20 (this is what shows on the default notice Lowell sent) which if added up comes to £2563.33.

 

Lowell claim is for £2660.50 (without additional costs and interest) which is still higher than the £2563.33 - I'm thinking someone just plucked a figure out of their tiny mind and decided to make a claim for it.

 

On the Notice of Assignment that Lowell eventually sent as a reconstituted NoA it claims the balance outstanding from Vanquis to be £2463.43 which looks awfully similar to £2563.33 only either someone can't add up or mis-typed it.

 

Am I right in my thought process that when I defaulted on the account it would be the £2239.13 + the arrears? In which case, this may suggest further that the NoA sent by Lowell is a forgery given that it is dated 11th april 2014 and the default date is 20th November 2012 and was sold to Lowell apparently on the 8th April 2013.

 

I have sent a signed for letter to Vanquis for copies of the original default notice and notice of assignment they suggest they sent to me. I'm interested to see if there is any difference in dates and values.

 

Again, I'm sorry for 3 posts, I'm thinking and should really put it on paper before posting. I hope someone can help answer my questions? I'm at my friends until this weekend so I'd be grateful if someone can do before then.

Edited September 19, 2018 by dx100uk
Merge

[AndyOrch]

All points can be raised in your witness statement but actual value discrepancies should take a back seat at this stage...concentrate on the actual paperwork provided.

[SimpleMinds]

Thanks for coming back to me. Not sure what you mean by concentrating on the paperwork sent? Is there something I should specifically look for?

 

Though, they did send a statement with the bundle which they claim is from Vanquis. The end balance on the statement is £2463.43 but wouldn't the end balance have to match the default amount of £2239.13?

[dx100uk]

Forget slight discrepancies in figures..not important..

 

Have you got the hearing date moved yet?

You said you wont be able to attend earlier??

 

Have you had their WS yet?

[SimpleMinds]

OK. I have sent the court a letter advising them of my absence on the date the hearing is scheduled to take place but I haven't heard anything back yet.

 

I've not had a witness statement from Lowell if that is what you mean. Short of the discrepancies with the figures and one I have found stating that the account was originally taken out on the 15/01/11 but the documents (screen documents) show it as being accepted on the 13/01/11. I've not found anything else to help me.

 

What am I missing? I don't know what else to look for to discredit their claim.

[dx100uk]

Their ws will inc all paperwork they intend to rely upon

Youre like theirs has to be in by 14 days before the hearing..but they might not pay the fee..and it might get moved

 

Might be best to put anything the fleecers have sent in ONE multipage pdf..then we can review it all to date

[SimpleMinds]

That is a very kind thing to do for me.

 

Whilst you have had me go through the paperwork in more detail I have noticed something that may be important but may not be given I thought I was doing well with the figures being inaccurate!

 

The Digital Signature page that has a Vanquis Logo on it which details my application says that the "Final Decision" is Approved on 15/01/2011 12:19.

 

Then having gone through all the paperwork and the terms and conditions which they just bundled together and I've now sorted into order (they sent 4 copies and one is incomplete). On the last page of the terms and conditions it shows my name, the date it was signed on, being 13/01/2011.

 

It also has another date slightly below which shows "12/03/2012".

 

The box that shows the terms and conditions on the applications shows "NP-TA-16" and the terms also show that so I think they have provided the right terms but the dates are wrong on the paperwork. Is this what I am missing?

 

The dates don't add up on any of their paperwork and now even on the actual application. How can I be approved on the terms two days before the application is even processed?

 

One more thing I've just found. The account number on all their documentation is completely different to the one on the application document.

 

The number on their claim relates to the original account number which ends 136817 (Credit Card Number - I'm not going to post it all up) but the one on the application document they have sent showing me being approved ends 086542.

 

The first 4 digits of the account number is the same "4023" but the remaining numbers that make up the 16 digit card number is completely different. I'm certainly not an expert but surely that is not acceptable as evidence?

[dx100uk]

Thats fatal

[SimpleMinds]

Thats fatal

 

For them or me? Would you like a scan of two examples.

[dx100uk]

To them

 

I think you might be better placed by reading some like threads

[SimpleMinds]

To them

 

I think you might be better placed by reading some like threads

 

Struggling to find them. Any way you could point me in the right area. I'm searching Lowell but getting millions of results.

[dx100uk]

Search cag box of the top red toolbar

 

Lowell claimform vanquis

Or lowell clainform

Or

Card claimform

 

Or your own question

[SimpleMinds]

I'm looking now. Not found anything that is specific to incorrect account numbers but found one re dodgy evidence and what seems to be false accounting of some sort.

[dx100uk]

no need to keep hitting reply with quote

make the thread 200% bigger

just type.

 

if all the documentation numbers don't match then one wonders if someone is falsifying them by copy and paste.

quite common

they don't expect people to defend speculative claimforms.

[SimpleMinds]

Sorry Dx100 - I'm still learning all this techy stuff. I'll remember in future.

 

I'm reading now and it does seem that Lowell have a habit of discontinuing claims but given that there may be a falsification of an account number here then it looks quite serious. Can I bring this to the attention of them and the court now or just wait until I need to submit the witness statement?

[dx100uk]

you will point the errors out in your WS.

 

I would hope you get theirs before you have to file yours

they way their exhibits can be pulled apart if they don't address these issues

but you don't tip them off by filing early or telling them.

[dx100uk]

Best you read up on ws too

Better than research elsewhere

[SimpleMinds]

OK. I'll wait until the last minute.

 

I have just discovered something that I think may be relevant.

 

The statement which they sent, it looks like a spreadsheet my friend says but the card number is right but it shows an account number which is as I have detailed above that ends differently.

 

So just to be clear;

 

It shows;

 

Card_Number Account_Number

xxxxxxxxxxxx6817 xxxxxxxxxxx6542

 

I may be wrong but it looks like they have put together this spreadsheet, used the card number and the number on the actual application that shows the account number as being different.

 

Looking down the so called statement, they have duplicated it for about 1 page and then the account number changes to something completely different for the rest of the statement (around 6 pages).

 

On all my previous credit cards the account number has always been the same as the card number, it's never been different. Would you concur that is the case, I don't understand why a card would be issued with 16 digits on and then it attached to another account with a different 16 digit set of numbers?

 

I've also noticed that there is a difference in the closeness of the top of the numbers on the account number showing on the application document. One batch they sent shows the numbers almost perfectly lined up and in the center of the box, the other shows the numbers slightly higher and closer to the top of the box. Suspiciously like it has been pasted in.

 

I'll check out witness statements too. Sorry, I would have added this to my last post but it crossed with your post.

 

Skip my last question. I've just phoned Vanquis and asked if the account number matches the card number and it absolutely does. Another I honestly hope Vanquis read this as it is now looking as though someone has falsified a document to mislead a court and potentially a judge. I would imagine that would be quite serious.

[dx100uk]

what you have to be wary of is the statements coming from Lowells syetm not from the OC

if its obv the statements are from the OC

then they wont be doctored

but if the are from the fleecers system and on fleecers headed paper then neve trust what they

and they can be ignored somewhat.

 

Lowell often produce statements from their system.

[SimpleMinds]

They're not on headed paper or even have a logo. It's just plain white a4 paper like is in my friends printer to my right. I should have asked for a copy of statements in my letter to vanquis this morning asking for a copy of the default and noa. I'm hoping they show different things too from the one Lowell have produced / supplied.

[dx100uk]

what vanquish hold or have or latterly fwd to you is immaterial

its what the fleecers produce that's important and what they can only rely upon.

 

resitting the thread

 

the agreement looks ok

the NOA looks ok

but to date we are devoid of a default notice?

 

that's been fatal to the claim before, many fleecers have lost cases here or discontinued due to no DN ..just search for the claims.

and read.

 

all the other bumf you are referring too, esp if the fleecers have no DN is simply trying to divert away attention away from that simple fact.

 

as you've now realised, the statements have no means to identify them as coming from the OC themselves so could have come from anywhere and are irrelevant bumf...

 

are you indicting that vanquish themselves are confirming that the two 16 digit numbers you talk of are related as far as they are concerned?