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    • I've inserted their poc re:your.. 1 ..they did send 2 paploc's  3. neither the agreement nor default is mentioned in their 2.        
    • Hi Guys, i read a fair few threads and saw a lot of similar templates being used. i liked this one below and although i could elaborate on certain things (they ignored my CCA and sent 2 PAPs etc etc) , am i right in that at this stage keep it short? If thats the case i cant see what i need to add/change about this one   1)   the defendant entered into a consumer credit act 1974 regulated agreements vanquis under account reference xxxxxxx 2)   The defendant failed to maintain the required payment, arrears began to accrue 3)   The agreement was later assigned to the claimant on 29 September 2017 and notice given to the defendant 4)   Despite repeated requests for payment, the sum of 2247.91 remains due outstanding And the claimant claims a)The said sum of £2247.91 b)The interest pursuant to S 69 county courts act 1984 at the rate of 8% per annum from the date of issue, accruing at a daily rate of £xxxx, but limited to one year,  being £xxxx c)Costs   Defence:   The Defendant contends that the particulars of claim vague and are generic in nature. The Defendant accordingly sets out its case below and relies on CPR r 16.5 (3) in relation to any particular allegation to which a specific response has not been made.   1. The Claimant has not complied with paragraph 3 of the PAPDC ( Pre Action Protocol) Failed to serve a letter of claim pre claim pursuant to PAPDC changes of the 1st October 2017.It is respectfully requested that the court take this into consideration pursuant to 7.1 PAPDC.   2. The Claimant claims £2247.91 is owed under a regulated consumer credit account under reference xxxxxxx. I do not recall the precise details or agreement and have sought verification from the claimant and the claimants solicitor by way of a CPR 31.14 and section 78 request who are yet to fully comply.   3. Paragraph 2 is denied. I am unable to recall the precise details of the alleged agreement or any default notice served in breach of any defaulted payments. 4. Paragraph 3 is denied.The Defendant contends that no notice of assignment pursuant to s.136 of the Law of Property Act & s.82 A of the CCA1974 has ever been served by the Claimant as alleged or at all.   5. It is therefore denied with regards to the Defendant owing any monies to the Claimant, the Claimant has failed to provide any evidence of assignment/balance/breach requested by CPR 31. 14, therefore the Claimant is put to strict proof to:   (a) show how the Defendant has entered into an agreement; and (b) show and evidence any cause of action and service of a Default Notice or termination notice; and © show how the Defendant has reached the amount claimed for; and (d) show how the Claimant has the legal right, either under statute or equity to issue a claim;   6. After receiving this claim I requested by way of a CPR 31.14 request and a section 78 request for copies of any documents referred to within the Claimants' particulars to establish what the claim is for. To date they have failed to comply to my CPR 31.14 request and also my section 78 request and remain in default with regards to this request.   7. As per Civil Procedure Rule 16.5(4), it is expected that the Claimant prove the allegation that the money is owed.   8. On the alternative, as the Claimant is an assignee of a debt, it is denied that the Claimant has the right to lay a claim due to contraventions of Section 136 of the Law of Property Act and Section 82A of the consumer credit Act 1974.   9. By reasons of the facts and matters set out above, it is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief.  
    • i understand. Just be aware I am prepared to take some risks 😉
    • Thanks Tnook,   Bear with us while we discuss this behind the scenes - we want you to win just as much as you do but we want to find the right balance between maximising your claim without risking too much in court fees, and in possible court costs awarded to the defendant bank.
    • Tell your son and think on this. He can pay the £160  and have no further worries from them. If he read POFA  Scedule 4 he would find out that if he went to Court and lost which is unlikely on two counts at least [1] they don't do Court and 2] they know they would lose in Court] the most he would be liable to pay them is £100 or whatever the amount on the sign says. He is not liable for the admin charges as that only applies to the driver-perhaps.If he kept his nerve, he would find out that he does not owe them a penny and that applies to the driver as well. But we do need to see the signage at the entrance to the car park and around the car park as well as any T&Cs on the payment meter if there is one. He alone has to work out whether it is worth taking a few photographs to help avoid paying a single penny to these crooks as well as receiving letters threatening him with Court , bailiffs  etc trying to scare him into paying money he does not owe. They know they cannot take him to Court. They know he does not owe them a penny. But they are hoping he does not know so he pays them. If he does decide to pay, tell him to wait as eventually as a last throw of the dice they play Mister Nice Guy and offer a reduction. Great. Whatever he pays them it will be far more than he owes as their original PCN is worthless. Read other threads where our members have been ticketed for not having a permit. [We know so little about the situation that we do not know if he has a permit and forgot to display it. ]
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William Burroughs

Ebay and European law?

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Wonder if anyone knows whether of not Ebay has any obligation to comply with European law relating to online selling?

 

I found this on German Ebay site : http://pages.ebay.de/help/sell/business/international-business-sellers.html which seems to be pretty concise.

 

Here is the UK version of the same page: http://pages.ebay.co.uk/help/sell/business/international-business-sellers.html

 

Both pages are the same other than the fact Ebay UK have deleted the information about "online dispute resolution" (ODR) which seems to be something that ALL online business sellers should be offering if they are selling online and are based in or are dealing with customers in EU member states.

 

Also in relation to online business sellers "The Electronic Commerce Regulations (2002)" requires contact details such as email and phone number to be displayed in a "clear and comprehensible" manner. I wonder is a clickable link displayed in the bottom left hand corner of business listings truly reflective of providing the contact info in a "clear and comprehensible manner"?

 

Wonder if anyone else has concerns about Ebay seeming to ignore EU law in pursuit of even larger profits?

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If they operate in europe, they have to abide by the law


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

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Yes my thoughts entirely. Take a look at Ebay listings and see if you can find any mention of the ODR process?....................I have not been able to find any and they have threatened me with a ban if I mention ODR in any of my listings, even though this is encouraged on the German web page!

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You'd have to look into it for yourself of course, but I don't think that there's anything stopping you using ebay.de to list your items. If there isn't, there'd certainly be nothing to stop you mentioning ODR if you wanted to. And as you'd be listing your items on ebay.de there'd be nothing that ebay uk could say about it.

 

As far as I know, items listed on the .de site would still be searchable from the .uk site.

 

Might be a way around it :thumb:


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They can ban for whatever reason they like. But if they ban for you asserting your legal rights, then you have cause to take it further


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

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...information about "online dispute resolution" (ODR) which seems to be something that ALL online business sellers should be offering if they are selling online and are based in or are dealing with customers in EU member states. ...

EU online dispute res

http://ec.europa.eu/consumers/odr/main/index.cfm?event=main.home2.show&lng=EN


IMO

:-):rant:

 

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You'd have to look into it for yourself of course, but I don't think that there's anything stopping you using ebay.de to list your items. If there isn't, there'd certainly be nothing to stop you mentioning ODR if you wanted to. And as you'd be listing your items on ebay.de there'd be nothing that ebay uk could say about it.

 

As far as I know, items listed on the .de site would still be searchable from the .uk site.

 

Might be a way around it :thumb:

 

As the UK is still subject to EU law as is Ebay not sure there is any credible reason for Ebay to ignore it? A judgement made by the EU in Dec last year relates to enforcement in relation to non-compliance and as Ebay (UK) is not complying with several different EU regulations, there is a vague possibility of action being taken possibly?

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Have contacted the EU about this and will post the response if anyone is interested? Seems to me that large tax dodging corporations can do pretty much as they please though so the chances of any sort of punitive action being taken are rather remote to say the least.

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ebay are not online sellers, they are a market place, like Amazon also claim even when they sell stuff directly.

 

this is a cop out they use to try and make their own terms apply rather than whatever local law.

 

for example, it is illegal to sell Nazi items in france but what happens if a french person buys something from ebay uk and imports it?

Is there a blanket ban that applies to countries that allow such legal sales?

 

Well ebay say that they wont be posted on ebay.fr

but the court ruling in france went futher than that

then you have a problem that no country may apply extraterritorial laws but all of europe and the US do

so you can see where the big corporations get it from

Edited by dx100uk
format

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No response from Ebay as to why their German and UK pages covering EU consumer protection legislation differ fundamentally.

EU seems to feel that a UK based advice centre plays a pivotal role in enforcement matters related to consumer protection legislation, but the advice centre has an entirely different view.

 

It would seem that if the ODR legislation was properly implemented and business slellers were obliged to display direct email contact details on all listings, that it would be very easy to buy/sell without paying Ebay fees.

This I guess is the reason Ebay chooses to ignore EU law in the same way as it chooses to ignore the idea of paying tax.

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Got a response from Ebay who suggest punitive action will be taken against me should I wish to comply with EU law and the Ebay user agreement which suggests all members must comply with legislation related to online selling. They really seem to be tying themselves up in knots over this as they are not able to explain why the UK is not subject to EU law like every other member state.........................

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if you are using ebay.uk then english law counts. The fact that a company MAY sell somehting to a german buyer doesnt create a contract under german law unless the seller it targeting germany for its sale or has a substantial market there.

There is no eu law, all laws passed by the european parliament are then impremented via that country's domestic legislators. the mamber country cant say no but they can and do tweak them to fit in with their existing legislation. That is why we are going through brexit, otherwise a million laws passed since we joined the common market would no longer be legal in domestic law as they were done via a treaty and directives that wouldnt exist if the Axt that got us into the EEC was simply repealed

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Directives

 

"Each directive contains a deadline by which EU countries must incorporate its provisions into their national legislation and inform the Commission to that effect.

The Commission assists member countries in correctly implementing all EU laws. It provides online information, implementation plans, guidance documents and organises expert‑group meetings."

 

 

The directive related to ODR was I think made in 2013 so it seems strange it has 5 years later still not been incorporated into UK law?

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the you quote the Uk version and that is not extra-territorial so rather self defeating. Where existing legislation is better than eu directie it stays such as UK hallmarking law and BS numbers for safety standards.

Alreadt pointed out that the regs are aimed at companies selling cross border so of no interest to a UK seller sellingstuff to a UK customer.

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The Consumer Contracts Regulations 2014 is legislation that Ebay would appear to be obliged to adhere too but is actually ignoring! Being able to side step this sort of legislation makes it an awful lot easier for all manner of [problematic] and dodgy sellers to operate using the Ebay platform. I guess though as Ebay pays no UK tax they very likely feel there is no need to take any notice of consumer protection law?

Edited by William Burroughs

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they arent selling you anything, they are a market place so if your seller is dodgy then you have to take it up with them assuming they are a trader ( whether they like it or not) You cant sue the council if someone sells you duff gear from a stall on the pavement.

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My point is that Ebay ignoring legislation specific to any business using its services to sell online, makes it a great deal easier for the ever increasing numbers of dodgy business sellers to operate unhindered. I wonder do you feel happy that large corporations can essentially do exactly as they please?

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irrelevant. Are you justtrying to make an argument about nothing just for the sale of it or is there a problem that you want help with as you havent raied one that is specific. If you have bought somehting that you wish to invoke your consimer rights with then say so, if you just want to tell us the law in Thailand is different to that in Serbia then if it was even remotely interesting to anyone they would have worked that out for themselves

Your argument is wrong as you well know, ebay arent ignoring it and the (unidentified) seller isnt breaking the law if they dont export as already explained but you knew that already.

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The Consumer Contracts Regulations which became UK law in 2013 suggest 2 things. The first being that Ebay deliberately concealing business seller contact information is a direct breach of the 2013 regulations which suggest contact information much be displayed in a clear and comprehensible manner, and the second that as all UK business sellers are through no fault of their own not complying with the 2013 regulations they are also in breach of the Ebay user agreement which suggests members must comply with region specific legislation.

 

In terms of dodgy sellers openly and freely operating on Ebay and specific legislation designed to make this more difficult being ignored I would say personally that is certainly extremely pertinent to consumer rights issues, as these laws designed to protect these rights have been set aside by Ebay for purely commercial reasons!

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