Motorway temp speed limit - unclear photgraphs

[dahliayellow]

I received an NIP for "speeding" on the motorway in a speed restricted area.

The signage was very unclear and when I sped up it was because I thought the speed restricted zone had ended as there was no signage to suggest otherwise and other motorists sped up too making it unsafe for me to continue at the restricted speed.

I was recorded as going 9 miles over the speed limit

 

when I called to ask about this they told me that it was an average taken from when I entered the zone and when I left.

Does anybody know anything about how they work this out?

And how I could challenge this?

 

The Police have sent me photographic evidence of my car but the photos do not show the context and thus you can't see that there were no signs around telling drivers to maintain the restricted speed.

 

Is there a requirement to provide photographic evidence of the context?

Can I do a freedom of information request?

 

Many thanks!

[sgtbush]

How was the signage unclear?

You were in a temp speed limit,

Now ill take this as a maintenance zone or a temp restriction from overhead signage displaying 50mph.

So at what point did you pass a national speed limit sign ?

You sped up because cars around you did and it was unsafe???

Poppycock.

 

Wagons are restricted to 56, some even 52 mph

 

Your looking for an excuse to get off a speeding ticket when you've made a large error in judgment.

Not obeying speed limit signs.

 

Edit

There are huge signs before an average zone saying just that.

 

AVERAGE SPEED CHECK

And they have repeater signs of the actual limit

 

Average speed limit zones are the average speed between two or more points. They know the time it takes between the points at the speed limit so anything faster means your speeding.

 

So if at 50mph speed limit it takes 2 mins to get from check point A to check point B and you do it in 1min 30, your speeding.

Time over distance equals speed I think it is.

 

If you feel you can challenge the laws of physics then appeal and take it to court.

If not id hope for a speed awareness course at best, 3 points and £100 quid lighter at worst

[dahliayellow]

Thanks for your reply sgtbush.

 

Could you clarify for me that the law is that you must travel at the temporary restricted speed (in this case 50mph) until you see a sign with the national speed limit of 70 mph?

 

In this case the speed restriction took place within 6.2 miles,

there was no signage upon the exit to say that the temporary speed limit was lifted.

I travel along this particular route fairly often and was able to check the next time I drove along this stretch of motorway.

 

I mentioned going at the speed of the other drivers only because I was once pulled over for driving too slowly and the PC told me that I should maintain the speed of the other drivers in order to be safe.

I have used this as a rule of thumb ever since, but I take your point.

[DragonFly1967]

I was recorded as going 9 miles over the speed limit and when I called to ask about this they told me that it was an average taken from when I entered the zone and when I left. Does anybody know anything about how they work this out? And how I could challenge this?

 

An average speed is calculated between 2 known fixed points. Speed = time over distance.

 

SPECS (average speed) cameras are placed a known (measured) distance apart and have a fixed focal point, so that it is known (within a few cm) where on the road surface the camera is 'reading' a vehicle number plate. At the point of the 'read' a clock is started.

When a camera further along the road, again focused on a known fixed point 'reads' the number plate, the clock is stopped.

 

As an example, If the camera focal points are 500M apart and the speed limit is 50mph, it must take 22.36 seconds to travel from point 1 to point 2. If it takes longer than that, the vehicle was travelling below the speed limit, it it takes less time than that, the vehicle was travelling above the speed limit.

 

Now, bearing in mind the guidance as regards speeding, in a 50mph area you'd (probably) get away with 55mph, so the time is reduced to 20.33 seconds. Do it in 20.32 seconds or less and you're going to be getting a ticket.

 

As for how you can challenge it. That's easy. All you have to do is prove that physics is wrong! Good luck

[sgtbush]

Average speed check zones are common place.

You dont have to travel at the restricted speed as you state. You can go slower.

Its a limit not a target.

If the limit on the road is 50, you do a maximum of 50.

If you pass a sign saying 30, you do up to 30. Likewise if your in a 50 and you pass a national speed limit sign you can do up to 70 on a duel carriage way or 60 normal road. (asuming your in a car)

 

There does not have to be a sign saying end of average speed check area. You shouldn't be doing over Te posted limit anyways.

 

The constable is wrong.

The only time you can be done for going too slowly is on a motorway.

I believe you must do at least 40mph if memory serves.

Unless your escorted by a separate vehicle with the relevant warning signs and flashing lights.

 

Remember speed limits are just that. A limit, not a target

[dahliayellow]

Thank you both! Lesson well and truly learnt.

[sgtbush]

Are you being offered a speed awareness?

[DragonFly1967]

The constable is wrong.

The only time you can be done for going too slowly is on a motorway.

I believe you must do at least 40mph if memory serves.

Unless your escorted by a separate vehicle with the relevant warning signs and flashing lights.

 

There are no minimum speed "limits" on the UK road network save in a few places. The Dartford tunnel is one which has a minimum speed of 30mph IIRC. Minimum speed areas are signposted with a blue sign showing the speed limit, and the end of the zones with a blue sign showing the speed limit with a red diagonal line through it.

 

Driving too slowly on any road is likely to get you stopped and asked why, and may see you charged with driving without due care, but for 99% of roads there is no actual minimum speed.

[dahliayellow]

No, it's too late. Just going to have to plead guilty, as you said limit is a limit.

[ericsbrother]

arguing you didnt see the signs may well get you clobbered for driving without due care and attention or careless driving.

 

as an aside, you can be done fro driving too slowly, again it is careless driving so doing 30mph on a motorway in normal driving conditions may well get you 3 points. The threshold for careless driving was changed about 3 years ago partly to deal with old people driving within the speed limits but very badly.

[CrappoMan]

An Average Speed Check is just that, you must maintain an average speed not above the posted limit until you are told otherwise, i.e: by a NSL sign or other speed limit sign.

 

You are within your rights to travel at upto 70mph, not withstanding other speed limits or cameras in force, but you must ensure your average over the measured distance is not above the posted average limit.