Euro Car Parks ANPR PCN - Wellington Street Stockport

[thebloodster]

Hi

 

For PNC's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

 

please answer the following questions.

 

1 Date of the infringement 17/01/18

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 25/01/18

 

3 Date received 29/01/18

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] Yes

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Pictures of just the licence plate with Entry and Exit times

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up your appeal] No

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

 

7 Who is the parking company? Euro Car Parks

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Wellington Street, Stockport

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. BPA

I was wondering whether anyone would be able to help with a Parking Charge Notice I have received.

I have read through a few posts on here and I'm hopeful I could not pay this charge but would appreciate anyone's advice?

 

I was in the Magistrates court (as support not accused) all day from 9am to 5.10pm.

 

 

During the day the only car parks I could find that were available were for 3 hour limits and after using two in the morning I went to one on Wellington Street in Stockport for the afternoon.

 

 

I paid for the maximum 3 hours parking but unfortunately after lots of waiting the case I was in finally got seen at 4.40pm but was eventually adjourned (long story),

 

 

This made me late for the car park but I thought nothing of it as I didn't have a ticket - I thought I had struck lucky.

 

However I since received a PCN in the post and was wondering if anyone could help.

The car park is only a small one and I managed to get the last space.

 

 

I did drive round he tight little car park to check spaces and this tight one was the only one left.

The Entry time was 13:51 and Exit was 17:16

[dx100uk]

scan up the PCN to PDF please

read upload

[thebloodster]

Thanks for the reply, I have added the file (I think)

PCN.pdf

[Bazooka Boo]

Is this car park local to you?

 

Have you got, or can you get a photograph of the signage they refer to?

[thebloodster]

Yes it's not too far away I can drive there to get the photo no problem

[Bazooka Boo]

Yes it's not too far away I can drive there to get the photo no problem

 

Excellent, get a photo of the entrance, and any signage at the entrance, and of a sign in the car park.

 

EB will pick this up later and be able to exploit their incompetence.....

[thebloodster]

Well I went there last night and took the photo's attached. Don't know why I thought it was a maximum 3 hours car park but seems it's not. There are so many round there that are maximum 3 hours maybe that's why I'm confused.

 

 

Don't know if that's good or bad for the case but took the attached pictures last night

Car Park Pictures.pdf

[ericsbrother]

well,

the multiple signs do them no favours at all.

 

In essence you are invited to park for £1.50 without strings according to the most prominent sign,

others refer to terms that arent there so dont count ( the pay by phone sign)

others refer to other signs for terms

so in essence are an invitation to treat and not contractual and

 

these signs do not say dont park if you wont agree to the small print located elsewhere so you can consider and then decide not to accept and there is nothing that says you have to pay a penalty for not accepting the small print.

 

The lack of suitable methods to pay but not saying you must pay before parking again means that this is not an offer that is binding.

 

Displaying a ticket is pointless as it is all ANPR linked and you wouldnt get a ticket to display if you paid online or by phone so it is nonsense.

Having one of the main terms of parking self defeating then means that the others carry little weight either.

they also admit that they calculate entry and exit times rather than actual time that the vehicle was parked.

 

Now most of the time this is a trivial point but what if you had trouble paying by phone or you had to queue to exit the car park? that is not time you are under any contractual obligations

so they cnat charge you but state that they will.

 

Likewise enter the car park,

read the signage,

decide you dont want to be bound by it and leave.

Will they charge you?

They have signed up to a code that says they wont.

 

Lastly the NTK says that the permit/ticket didnt cover the date and time of parking.

 

Well, where on their list of terms that attract a breach of contract charge of £100 is that specifically mentioned?

You cant breach a condition that doesnt exist.

Edited February 2, 2018 by dx100uk
paras

[thebloodster]

Thank you very much for that message i was thinking all those signs were against me.

 

So what do I do next?

[ericsbrother]

first choice:

ignore them and wait and see what they do,

you can always tell them they are wrong and to sod off at some point in the future.

 

second choice: tell them they are wrong now but risk showing your hand and thus making them think that a rebuttal of your statements will make you likely to then pay up.

 

The former costs them more money as they will invariable pay a dca to write scary letters,

the latter speeds thing up slightly but really wont get them to drop the matter as they know they dont have a decent case to claim for you but then they dont have a case to claim from anyone and that is how they make a living.

 

We still have a few more tools in our box, they dont

[thebloodster]

So I'm thinking that its better to appeal now just in case I do have to end up paying as i would get the reduced rate.

 

I know i have to write an appeal to them would I show my hand, part of my hand or none?

 

Is there a standard letter that has been used? Do people generally ignore them is that the best?

[dx100uk]

no wait

[Bazooka Boo]

So I'm thinking that its better to appeal now just in case I do have to end up paying as i would get the reduced rate.

 

 

Ha ha ha, reduced rate! How about you pay them nothing, can't get any more reduced than that!

 

Ignoring them is the old advice, wait and see if they're still dumb enough to try and escalate it before you respond, let them waste their money.

[ericsbrother]

no-one here would ever suggest that you pay up a lesser amount when you owe nothing. You havent read what has been written properly and the parking co's rely on that to amke their threats look like substance

 

Now get pictures of the signs etc so we can show you where you win and they lose.

So I'm thinking that its better to appeal now just in case I do have to end up paying as i would get the reduced rate.

 

I know i have to write an appeal to them would I show my hand, part of my hand or none?

 

Is there a standard letter that has been used? Do people generally ignore them is that the best?

[thebloodster]

So I have now received a 2nd letter from them stated that the reduced rate no longer applies (as attached)

 

 

Do I just ignore this one too? Thanks in advance

Letter 2.pdf

[dx100uk]

as post 14

[disgruntled2007]

So I have now received a 2nd letter from them stated that the reduced rate no longer applies (as attached)

 

 

Do I just ignore this one too? Thanks in advance

 

Where are the pictures that were requested?

 

Cancel that. Posted much earlier.

[Homer67]

So I have now received a 2nd letter from them stated that the reduced rate no longer applies (as attached)

 

 

Do I just ignore this one too? Thanks in advance

 

You are falling for their implied authority when they have zero, next door's rabbit has more authority.

[Bazooka Boo]

And charging you for using debit/credit card!

[ericsbrother]

well, you knew that anyway because all they are doing is following the law. Doesnt make it any more valid as a claim

[thebloodster]

You are falling for their implied authority when they have zero, next door's rabbit has more authority.

 

 

How do you know my next door neighbour has a rabbit lol

 

 

Thanks all for the answers I will await the next letter

[thebloodster]

Hi All

 

 

Well just when I was starting to think that they had given up I received a letter from a Debt Recovery Company chasing the payment which has now gone up to £160 (see copy attached)

 

 

Is it now time for me to write to Euro Car Parks stating reasons that this isn't a fair charge? Should I use the reasons stated in this thread and that it didn't allow for parking time, machine time etc

 

 

Thanks in advance

ECP Binder.pdf

Edited March 23, 2018 by DragonFly1967
Combined PDFs

[dx100uk]

as post 12

[DragonFly1967]

Do not contact Daft Recovery Pass. You can quite safely ignore them to your hearts content while enjoying the feeling of them wasting their own money to write to you

[DragonFly1967]

I note with some hilarity, that the terms and conditions on the sign "display a valid ticket or permit clearly inside your windscreen" are a) impossible to comply with and b) do not match the terms and conditions on the payment meter "5. Display ticket clearly in vehicle"

 

So... As a driver accepts the contract only once payment is complete and the ticket issued, thereby accepting the terms and conditions not on the signs, but on the payment machine, the driver could display the ticket anywhere within the vehicle (as long as it is in plain sight) and comply fully with the contract formed by payment. It's an aside, but clearly shows the sloppy practices of these cowboys.

 

 

And as for "please enter full license plate details", since when was Wellington Street, Stockport in the USA? License plate indeed.