Excel/BW Claimform - PCN 14/12/2016 Cavendish Retail Park Keighley - *** Claim Dismissed with Costs ***

[TDRW333]

Hi all, new to CAG but hoping you can help!

 

My husband has received a claim for for a PCN over a year ago which I feel is unfair and would strongly like to contest on the basis that none of the parking machines were working on the night he parked there.

 

I have just completed the Acknowledgement of Service online amd intend to request info under CPR 31:14

but I would really appreciate any help you can offer,

 

particularly with respect to what I should specifically request.

 

Thanks in advance!

[Sidewinder]

Welcome to the forum

 

First things first the experts will need a bit more background in order to advise

 

Location of car park, date of incident, was it a windscreen ticket or ANPR, did you appeal to POPLA/IAS

 

Please visit this link, copy the detail, paste it here and add your own responses to the questions

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465231-Received-a-Court-Claim-From-A-Private-parking-Speculative-invoice-How-To-Deal-With-It-HERE***Updated-Aug-2016***

[Sidewinder]

There are other threads relating to Excel at this site. I particularly like this one https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?476097-Excel-BW-claimform-PCN-cavendish-retail-park-in-keighley-on-10-04-2014-**Discontinued-Costs**/page4

 

A quick Google seems to suggest that Excel were sacked in the summer of 2017 and replaced by G24. Their signage has been replaced as well, so part of your defence could include the fact that you have no way of knowing now what signage was in place where and importantly what advice was provided on the ticket machine regarding what to do if broken etc?

[dx100uk]

should be easy to buff away and win

as with all these back dated 2016 excel/VCS claimforms.

 

I will guess you've ignored everything to date.,....

 

dx

[dx100uk]

https://cse.google.co.uk/cse?cx=partner-pub-0964707606882478:652l7hswbgv&ie=UTF-8&q=excel+vcs+bw+2016+claimform&sa=Search+CAG#gsc.tab=0&gsc.q=excel%20vcs%20bw%202016%20claimform&gsc.page=1

[ericsbrother]

glad you have ignoired everything so far,

makes it easier to defend in many respects.

 

Tell us exactly what the particulars of claim say as they are usually so risible you can get the claim chucked out for their own shoddy work

[TDRW333]

Name of the Claimant: EXCEL PARKING SERVICES LTD

Claimants Solicitors: BW LEGAL

 

Date of issue: 26/01/2018

 

Date to acknowledge - 13/02

 

date to submit defence = 27/02

 

Particulars of Claim:

1.The Claimant's Claim is the sum of £100.00 being monies due from the Defendant to the Claim in respect of a Parking Charge Notice (PCN) issued on 14/12/2016 at 17:45:04 at Cavendish Retail Park Keighley .The PCN relates to **SOME CAR**.

2.The terms of the PCN allowed the Defendant 28 days from the issue date to pay the PCN , but the Defendant failed to do so. Despite demand having been made, the Defendant has failed to settle their outstanding liability.

 

3.The Claim also includes statutory interest pursuant to section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at a rate of 8% per annum a daily rate of 0.02 from 14/12/2016 to 25/01/2018 being an amount of £8.16.

 

The Claimant also claims £60.00 contractual costs pursuant to PCN Terms and Conditions.

 

Therefore: £168.16+ £25.00 court fee + £50.00 Legal representative's cost= £243.16 total amount.

 

As to the background,

my husband remembers parking for five minutes outside Sports Direct within this carpark.

 

He believes the first he knew was a letter through the post, displaying a picture of the rear of the vehicle parked in a space outside Sports Direct.

 

As there was no ticket on the windscreen and judging from other reports ive seen, we are assuming the PCN was issued using ANPR.

 

Unfortunately he has not kept the original letter or any of the following debt threat letters as they usually get bored and give up - unfortunately not in this case!

 

He thinks that the first 20 minutes were free, so did not buy a ticket or enter registration number.

 

He couldn't have been in there more than 10 mins max but, without the initial letter I cant be sure.

 

As someone has stated in a previous thread, the carpark was subject to a LOT of controversy and has since changed hands and signage so I'm unable to check whether the first 20 mins was free as my husband thinks.

 

I will have a look to see if I can find pictures of previous signage from other cases and news stories.

 

Because my husbands memory can be a bit vague

I'm not sure whether we have a case or whether he actually parked without getting a ticket when he should have done.

 

I guess I can apply for Excel to disclose to me their evidence and then see?

 

Any help greatly appreciated!

 

Thanks T

 

PS I have submitted the acknowledgment of service on 27th Jan

 

I have found some pictures of the machines and signage from a previous thread and my husband now thinks he probably just made a mistake putting his reg number in as the first 20 mins are not free

- hes thinking of another car park in Saltaire!

 

Thanks to everyone for replying to my thread!

 

I have read the previous case posted by a Cagger with great interest

- Excel/BW Claimform - PCN 14/12/2016 Cavendish Retail Park Keighley. I

 

am hopeful I can do the same.

 

Our only reservation is that we are hoping to move at the end of the year and so having a CCJ on file would not be great for a new mortgage application,

 

however, I am so loathe to pay these people the near £250 that they now think they are owed!

 

I will just fill in the form with the background info so that you re better in the picture and post it in a few mins

[DragonFly1967]

Don't worry about a CCJ, it's far too early to even think about that yet as several things would need to happen before you could ever get one of those.

 

1. Firstly, they have to actually get you in to a court room.

2. Then they'd have to win the case against you.

3. Then you'd have to refuse to pay.

 

1. Isn't as likely as they like to have you believe, even after they issue a claim they can throw the towel in right up til the last minute.

2. Is even less likely. None of these parking companies win as many claims as they'd like people to think. Certainly not if they're defended.

3. In the unlikely event that you lose. As long as you pay up (usually within 28 days) then you won't get a CCJ entered on to your file.

[TDRW333]

Hi,

 

Thanks Dragonfly 1967!

 

I did a quick read and you've confirmed what I thought,

if worst case scenario we lose then we will just pay up straight away.

 

I'm hoping that due to the previous case I've read on here from the same car park that they will discontinue once they realise I am serious about defending the claim!

 

T

[fkofilee]

Removed info from post

Dont post personal info

[dx100uk]

did you do AOS on line at MCOL?

 

here the CPR 31:14 you need to get running:

 

to the solicitors

 

[Your address]

.

 

[Their address [solicitors]

.

[Date]

.

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

.

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

.

CPR 31.14 Request

.

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

.

1. the contract between [parking company name] and the landowner that assigns the right to enter into contracts with the public and make claims in their own name,.

.

2.proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007

.

3.copies of the notice to driver, notice to keeper and any other correspondence from [insert Claimant Name] & [insert Solicitors Name} to the defendant that they intend to rely upon in court.

.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are disclosed at your earliest convenience..

.

Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy.

.

Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

.

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

.

If you are unable to comply with this request within 14 days and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request please confirm in your response.

.

You are reminded that as this case is yet to be allocated to a track, CPR31:14 does apply, a refusal to comply because you 'think' at this stage you dont have too will be used against you in any filed defence.

.

 

Yours faithfully

.

TYPE YOUR NAME DO NOT SIGN IT

[TDRW333]

Thanks, its no longer current but yes you're right!

 

yes I registered with MCOL and submitted the AOS. thank you for this, I will get it sent off tomorrow.

 

T.

[ericsbrother]

if you have enough time after sending the CPR 31.14 request you can add their non reply to that request for documents to your defence.

 

The claim is vague,

they mention a contractual obligation to pay £60 on top of the parking charge so that means they are suing the defendant as the driver because the POFA doesnt allow them to add a unicorn food tax to the contractual sum and neither driver or keeper can have that added if the claim is for a breach of contract.

 

However, they dont say in what capacity they are taking the defendant to court so that can be challenged as to their cause for action against the defendant.

 

Seems complicated but consier this.

You hire a builder but dont pay him and do a runner.

 

The people who buy your house then get letters from the builder saying as they are occuplying the property he did work on they are liable to foot the bill.

 

Would you think the builder has any right to sue someone who has nothing to do with the original agreement just because he knows the address?

 

Same applies here with a bit of an added complication,

they can create a keeper liability if they jump through certain hoops.

We dont know whether they did or didnt because the paperwork has been binned.

 

However the onus id on the parking co to prove they did comply with the act so you work on the assumption they didnt and let them do the running.

 

before the 27th feb you submit a skeleton defence that starts off by saying claimant hasnt shown cause for action hasnt shown locus standi and hasnt got planning permission for ANPR or signs so no reason to sue defendant.

 

Then use the wording on the sigage etc to say that in any case no contract formed because....

[TDRW333]

Hi All,

 

Thanks for your advice

so far,

ive sent off the 31:14 today recorded delvery to the BW Legal.

 

Funnily enough we received a letter today notifying us of a county court claim

- well yes

- we received that and if they had logged into their account theyd see we have replied via AOS.

 

Interestingly the letter sets out different amounts to the court claim, seems they cant decide whether to slap the cost onto the initial claim or hike it up as solicitors fees.

 

The most blood boiling part of the letter is where they threaten to enter a CCJ against on or after 15th feb if we fail to contact them or reply to the court claim. Really???

 

I thought only the court could slap someone with a CCJ so surely this is threatening and harassment with the intention of scaring people into paying.

I guess we now need to get a defence together.

 

My other thought and possibly a slightly paranoid one is that on a different forum I have seen an example of where the same legal company had found the comments on the forum and printed them out in order to use them in court.

 

I'm wondering if they've seen my post about CCJs and tried to play on those concerns.

Any thoughts?

 

In terms of the defence I need to see what the contravention is supposed to be, I don't know if they are saying we didn't pay and display as the particulars of claim are so vague.

 

I asked for any CCTV or photgraphic evidence in the 31:14 as we will argue that they cannot verify who was driving.

 

In addition, as the parking company has now changed, do I use that to argue I cannot adequately defend the case as the signage and machines etc relevant to the case will have changed or do I get hold of some old pictures?

Edited February 1, 2018 by dx100uk
paras

[fkofilee]

Errrrrrrrrrr... Fancy posting up the letter minus personal details?

[TDRW333]

Hi Sorry having problems trying to upload it.

 

it's from BW Legal received today.

 

Header : NOTICE OF COUNTY COURT CLAIM ISSUED

 

Text: As you are aware, we represent Excel Parking Services Ltd. We have now issued legal proceedings in the form of a County Court Claim on 26th January 2018 under claim no ........ which you will shortly receive directly from Northampton County Court (County Court Bulk Centre) as you have failed to make repayments on your above account.

 

The amount of the County Court Claim is summarised below:

Principle Debt: £100.00

Interest: £8.16

Court Fees: £25.00

Solicitor's Costs £110.00

Outstanding Balance to pay now: £243.16

 

We may enter a County Court Judgement (CCJ) against you on or after 15 February 2018 if you do not contact us or reply to the County Court Claim.

 

If a CCJ is entered against you, it will remain on your credit file for 6 years and you may have difficulty obtaining further credit.

 

Goes on with : What you need to do now, manage your account online payment options etc etc

[dx100uk]

the 15th would be if you hadn't done AOS by day 19 from the date on the claimform.

 

we hope they don't comply [which they rarely do]

make defence easy and very short

 

doesn't matter what they read here.

[DragonFly1967]

Well, the maximum that they can claim for ' "solicitors" costs ' is £50 on the small claims track. So they've shot themselves in the both feet there.

 

On the plus side, they've managed to claim the correct amount for the principle debt which makes a refreshing change.

 

As for "We may enter a County Court Judgement (CCJ) against you on or after 15 February 2018 if you do not contact us or reply to the County Court Claim." BW Legal now owe me a new keyboard. I've just spat coffee all over this one as I was laughing so hard

 

Professional Professional what exactly?

 

I can feel a complaint to the SRA in the offing

[dx100uk]

15th feb will be correct if the defendant does not ack the claim by day 19

they could immediately apply for a default judgement

[DragonFly1967]

Apply, certainly. And they'd most likely get it as we all know.

 

But apply and enter are two different things. BW Loophole can't 'enter' a judgement, they can only apply for one.

[ericsbrother]

yes,

use the letter against them when the time comes.

this is no accident

 

civil procedure when it comes to small claims procedure is quite relaxed

so the sods will not get into trouble for tryng it on.

 

No-one from Excel will ever turn up as that way they cant get into trouble for contempt and they dont want to spend money on a hopeless case anyway.

 

As for compnies printing off reams of stuff from advice forums

- yes, they have tried this and got slapped down because

(1) no absolute proof the defenndant was the same person in the advice postings and

(2) completely irrelevant,

 

anyone can take advice from whoever they wish,

the parking co's take advice from companies of solicitors that boast about their successes

but then they lose out to a bunch of amateurs almost all of the time when a proper defence is submitted.

 

They are just trying it on because they are jealous of the results the advice groups actually achieve.

We are happy to know that they read what we write,

they can then see that they are on to a loser and drop the claim when it gets to the point where they have to put up or shut up.

 

Until then they are hoping that you waver and pay up and just become silent on here rather than telling us the outcome good or bad.

Edited February 2, 2018 by honeybee13
Paras

[TDRW333]

Oh good, you've confirmed what I thought.

 

I love that they think they can just bully people into thinking they can hand down CCJs without any input from a judge .

 

Is it worth putting in a complaint with SRA at this point and or telling BW I plan to do so? Or would they just laugh.

I notice that this seems to be an automated money making scheme for them and no solicitor actually puts their name to any of these dodgy letters. Presumably so if you do complain they can just blame 'admin'.

 

The claimed amounts differ on the claim form and on the letter from BW, does that bolster my defence that their claim is bogus?

 

T

[fkofilee]

With BW Legal... All of their letters are signed BW LEGAL... Thats it...

[ericsbrother]

does it bolster your defence? NO

 

what it does do is show that they have behaved unreasoably and you can then ask for a full costs recovery order under CPR 27.14.2(g)

 

That will include paying for your research time of 5 hours at £19.50hr and other costs not normally give like photocopying, loss of income for attending court etc.

 

you will be letting them know this nearer the date

- might be worth dropping just Excel a letter in this regard as they are the ones paying to be shafted by BW's actions

[TDRW333]

Hi all,

 

Just as an update,

after sending out request for evidence CPR 31:14, BW Legal received this on 5th Feb, therefore unless I receive anything through the post tomorrow, they have not replied within the 14 days as requested.

 

I am sending a letter to Excel tomorrow to inform them that I will be applying to recover all costs associated with this so far.

 

My defence is due by 27th of February.

 

Any further suggestions gratefully received.

 

With regards to the defence, if I hear nothing from BW legal, do I go down the route of having the case dismissed for unreasonable behaviour I.e., not supplying evidence making it impossible for me to defend the case etc?

 

Thanks

 

T