Old council tax bills and excessive bailiff fees

[Kiknik]

Hi

 

I'm pulling my hair out with an ongoing council tax issue or issue's' rather !

 

I recently received 8 letters from my local council about old council tax bills dating as far back as 2008! The bills are for a number of different properties (I've moved around a lot)

A couple of them are final small bills that I've missed after moving out, another is for a shared property where I paid my share and unfortunately someone else didn't and another is for two months after I moved out of a property.

 

In 2012, my car was seized unfairly (I used it for self employment at the time and the bailiff used very dodgy means to remove it) to cover a £217 bill, the car was worth £3k and sold for £700, only £200 of that went to the council. On the day he took it, I rang the council while he was there to offer payment of the £217 and they refused to accept it.

 

After receiving the letters recently, i have raised an issue (not an official complaint yet) to say that I do not owe them said council tax, number 1 because they took a £3k car and got nothing for it even though I offered payment and the bailiffs took so much for illegal fees at the time and also because the other property was shared and they can chase the other person on the bill. I can also provide evidence of moving out of the other property.

 

I have been going back and forth with the council for a couple of weeks now who are refusing to listen to me and keep repeating that I am liable for all properties and accounts. The total outstanding is nearly £2000. They refuse to acknowledge that they did anything wrong in taking my car and actually said if I had offered to pay the bailiff or the council they would've much rather have accepted it, which is rubbish!

 

When I received the letters, I contacted them immediately and asked that any further bailiff action was placed on hold while they investigated my points but the council ignored me and I have received numerous letters from THREE different bailiff agencies adding on further fees so the outstanding now totals £3,200!!! Its insane.

 

My time to make an arrangement was up with one agency so I have had to agree to make payments of £400 a month to clear the £1,400 that they hold otherwise they would've visited my property. Another agency have given me 7 days.

 

How is this OK? They have already taken a car which they should not have done ( I complained at the time and obviously my complaint was not upheld!)

 

There are other people named on two of the bills yet they aren't being pursued.

 

I have provided evidence of not living in one property in the time they claim but they have ignored it.

 

I read something about a liability order only lasting 12 months?

 

Is there anything I can do? I would even be willing to just take the council tax arrears on the chin and pay the council, but I cannot afford to pay £1,200 on top of that in bailiff fees!

 

help!

[Bailiff Advice]

Hi

 

I'm pulling my hair out with an ongoing council tax issue or issue's' rather !

 

I recently received 8 letters from my local council about old council tax bills dating as far back as 2008! The bills are for a number of different properties (I've moved around a lot).

 

A couple of them are final small bills that I've missed after moving out, another is for a shared property where I paid my share and unfortunately someone else didn't and another is for two months after I moved out of a property.

 

In 2012, my car was seized unfairly (I used it for self employment at the time and the bailiff used very dodgy means to remove it) to cover a £217 bill, the car was worth £3k and sold for £700, only £200 of that went to the council. On the day he took it, I rang the council while he was there to offer payment of the £217 and they refused to accept it.

 

How is this OK? They have already taken a car which they should not have done ( I complained at the time and obviously my complaint was not upheld!

 

When your complaint was rejected by the local authority in 2012, did you ask for the complaint to be considered as a Stage Two complaint or alternatively, did you raise your complaint with the Local Government Ombudsman?

[Peterbard]

When you offered to pay the council in 2012, did the offer include what you owed to the bailiff in fees up until that point.

[Kiknik]

Hi,

 

I took it to a stage 2 yes and it was rejected again. They completely ignored all of my points and at that point I didn't feel like I would get anywhere with the ombudsman either.

 

The bailiff used a police officer to get in to my home, told the police that there had been a disturbance which was untrue, I didn't even answer the door or speak to him. The officer came to my door and told me I HAD to open the door, which I now know is of course not true. I was obviously scared at the time so listened to the police officer. The bailiff then removed a number of items, including toys that belonged to my son, and placed them all on my front drive, obviously as a way of embarrassing me in to paying, then eventually took my car. At every point, I said I would pay what was owed but he ignored me. The bailiff was also aggressive and threatened to forcefully take my phone off me in front of the officer, yet she did nothing. I complained to the police and the council at the time and got an apology off the police but nothing off the council who are still maintaining that they followed procedure and if I have an issue with the fees that were taken from the sale of my car, then I have to complain to Marstons. I did this at the time and it was ignored. The whole thing became so stressful that I left it there. lost my car and my means of work transportation.

 

To now face the same 'arrears' when I went through all of that, is just disgusting. At the time, I think, If I remember correctly that I offered to pay the full amount to the council and they just wouldnt accept it and said I HAD to deal with the bailiff who at that point had probably added on attendance fees, removal fees etc etc which I couldn't afford. I remember at the time that I checked what they could legally charge me for letters, attending etc etc and the fees were way above that.

 

Also, on two of the outstanding bills, two other people are named, yet the council are not pursuing them.

 

It's just bullying to be honest!

 

What I also have an issue with, is that for each outstanding account, even though 4 are with marstons, 4 with another agency and 1 with another, they have added on separate fees for each account rather than one fee!

[ss002d6252]

Also, on two of the outstanding bills, two other people are named, yet the council are not pursuing them.

 

There is no requirement for them to do so. In any case they cannot do so anyway whilst they are using enforcement action against you for the same debt.

 

 

What I also have an issue with, is that for each outstanding account, even though 4 are with marstons, 4 with another agency and 1 with another, they have added on separate fees for each account rather than one fee!

You will see the initial fee with each liability order for the £75 whereas charging of the £235 for each case depends on the situation regarding each enforcement agent and what cases they had and when.

 

Have you obtained a statement from the enforcement agents for each account to show when and where fees and payments have been applied to the outstanding balances ?

 

Simply stating that the fees are illegal will not get you anywhere, you need to be able to specifically challenge why they are wrong in your view.

[Peterbard]

Under the old rules the fees would have been taken off any payment in full before anything came off the outstanding tax bill, so unless you offered full payment of all sums due the council would not accept.

 

Any issues about the amount due on the LO should have been addressed before it was issued, if it was issued against you only, then I am afraid the bailiff is quite correct in enforcing it against you. Those issues should have been addressed before.

 

Unfortunately goods sold at auction rarely fetch a third of what they would be worth.

Any breach in the distress procedure should also have been addressed at the time.

I cant think you will get any joy out of a complaint made now in regards to those. The rules then were different than they are now unfortunately.

 

If I were you I would concentrate on what they are asking for now, on the various accounts. Do you have a list of all LOs issued and outstanding sums remaining under them. If not I would construct one.

[Peterbard]

Crossed posts ss, fully agree.