Jump to content

 

BankFodder BankFodder


_Ray_

VCS PCN Liverpool Airport - No Stopping

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 595 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

Hi All,

 

Received an Invoice from Vehicle Control Solutions for allegedly stopping in a no-stopping area on a private access road at Liverpool Airport - I was not the driver of the vehicle.

 

I've read all the posts concerning VCS and no-stopping on private land at the airport and my understanding is I should ignore everything from them until their lawyers get involved. At that stage I should send them something along these lines...

 

"Dear VCS,

 

In reply to your letter sent on xx/xx/2018.

 

There has been no breach of any contractual agreement therefore I owe you nothing.

 

Regards"

 

If it then proceeds to court I should come back here for further advice. Have I got that all right or have I missed anything?

 

Thanks in advance

 

 

1 Date of the infringement 16/01/2018

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] posted: 19/01/2018

 

3 Date received: 23/01/18.

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] No

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?} No

 

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] N/A

 

7 Who is the parking company? Vehicle Control Services

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Liverpool John Lennon airport.

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IPC

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

yep


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No, that's pretty much bang on.

 

These particular bandits are members of the IPC, so it's really not worth bothering with until you get a Letter Before Action (or whatever it's called this week) which usually comes from Gladrags or BWL.


We could use your help

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

 

 

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.

 

If I've helped you at all, please feel free to click on the little star under my posts and leave feedback :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the replies, I'll update the thread as and when things start to get interesting :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Agree with the advice about ignoring up until the point lawyers get involved

 

but would suggest that at that juncture you send a much stronger worded letter saying they know that there has been no breach of contract because there wasnt one offered to start off with,

 

that this has been proven many times before and they are merely trying to obtain money by deception

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thanks for the advice, I will do that and update the thread when it all starts to kicks off :-)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good Morning,

 

As promised an update of how this is progressing...

 

Today I received 2 letters (attached), apologies for the poor quality, there's a problem with my phone's camera. I think there a legible though.

 

The first is from Vehicle Control Services Ltd. telling me that as I have failed to pay them they have now handed it over to their legal representatives, BW Legal.

 

The second letter (in the same envelope - not sure if that is relevant or not) is from BW Legal themselves saying I need to pay, otherwise they may commence legal proceedings.

 

So now I write to them saying something along the lines of:

 

"Dear BW Legal,

 

Reference: xxxxxxxxx

 

In reply to your letter sent on 15/03/2018.

 

As you are aware, there has been no breach of contract between myself and VCS because there wasn't one offered to start with, therefore I owe nothing.

 

I would further point out that this has been proven many times before which suggests you are merely trying to obtain money by deception.

 

Regards"

 

Is the wording strong enough/too strong? Any suggestions of changes to make would be greatly appreciated.

 

I've made a small donation to the site today because I really appreciate all the help and advice I've received.

 

Many thanks

2-BWL-Letter.jpg

1-VCS-Letter.jpg

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Did you send that initial response to VCS, and if so, did you get proof of postage?


We could use your help

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

 

 

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.

 

If I've helped you at all, please feel free to click on the little star under my posts and leave feedback :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Did you send that initial response to VCS, and if so, did you get proof of postage?

 

I haven't entered into any communication with anyone about this issue so far.

I've been following the advice of ericsbrother, dx100uk, and yourself about ignoring everything until VCS's legal team get involved

- which they have done today.

 

So far from them I've received...

 

1. Original NTK from VCS dated 19/01/18

 

2. Final reminder from VCS dated 19/02/18

 

3. Today's 2 letters, one from VCS the other from BW Legal (as outlined in my earlier post).

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would further point out that this has been proven many times before which suggests you are merely trying to obtain money by deception.

 

I would not include that sentence. Not only does it have no direct relevance to your case it could expose you to potential legal action for defamation by BW legal. That would be, at best, a distraction from dealing with your PCN. Obtaining money by deception is a serious criminal offence.

 

Accusing - even as a "suggestion" - anybody of it is risky unless you have strong evidence. To accuse a firm of solicitors of it seems to me plain foolish.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No problem, was just wondering.

 

The letter from BWL isn't a LBC, so continue to give them the cold shoulder for now. VCS won't win a claim in court as they've (effectively) already been shafted by their own clients JLA because the site has byelaws. So the keeper (as keeper) can never be liable, and as they won't be able to prove who was driving...

 

Expect them to cite Elliot v Loake to try and claim that the keeper is the driver, but that won't have any sway in civil court.


We could use your help

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

 

 

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.

 

If I've helped you at all, please feel free to click on the little star under my posts and leave feedback :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thank you for the donation, it will help us to continue helping people who end up in the same situation as you. :)

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I hear what you're saying and it makes sense - I took my lead from ericbrother's suggestion in an earlier post...

 

....send a much stronger worded letter saying they know that there has been no breach of contract because there wasnt one offered to start off with, that this has been proven many times before and they are merely trying to obtain money by deception

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ahh, I don't think that that's meant as a suggestion as to what to write in a letter.

 

Even though many of us know that it has substance in as much as they're fully aware that they don't really have a case due to the byelaws, it could prove costly if ever committed to them in a letter.

 

You'd probably be able to successfully defend a libel case, but it could prove to be quite expensive to do so. Better to just think it, unless you have very deep pockets :lol:


We could use your help

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

 

 

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.

 

If I've helped you at all, please feel free to click on the little star under my posts and leave feedback :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Thank you for the donation, it will help us to continue helping people who end up in the same situation as you. :)

 

HB

 

You're more than welcome, the advice I've received here recently, and in the past, has been invaluable...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Ahh, I don't think that that's meant as a suggestion as to what to write in a letter.

 

Even though many of us know that it has substance in as much as they're fully aware that they don't really have a case due to the byelaws, it could prove costly if ever committed to them in a letter.

 

You'd probably be able to successfully defend a libel case, but it could prove to be quite expensive to do so. Better to just think it, unless you have very deep pockets :lol:

 

Ahh, I see, I took his suggestion literally :oops:

 

So is the advice to still ignore them at this stage or do I send them some other wording?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Ignore them unless the send you a letter before claim.

 

Then you go at them with both barrels, telling them in no uncertain terms that they don't have a case. We'll suggest some wording for that if & when it happens. It won't be polite :wink:


We could use your help

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

 

 

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.

 

If I've helped you at all, please feel free to click on the little star under my posts and leave feedback :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

dont worry, libel has to be written in the public domain,

sending a letter to this lot stating such is not a published thing.

 

Anyway, it would come under the "fair comment" defence even if it was put on a flag and flown from the rooftops.

VCS DO know that they dont have a eg to stand on and their solicitors have a duty to the justice system to ensure that they are advised properly.

If the solicitor acts reckelessly or carelessly then they can be held to account so it all boils down to this question Are VCS and their solicitors ignorant or what?

 

Ahh, I don't think that that's meant as a suggestion as to what to write in a letter.

 

Even though many of us know that it has substance in as much as they're fully aware that they don't really have a case due to the byelaws, it could prove costly if ever committed to them in a letter.

 

You'd probably be able to successfully defend a libel case, but it could prove to be quite expensive to do so. Better to just think it, unless you have very deep pockets :lol:

Edited by dx100uk
spacing

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
... It won't be polite :wink:

 

This is why I love this forum :-D

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
dont worry, libel has to be written in the public domain,

sending a letter to this lot stating such is not a published thing.

 

That is not the definition of libel in English law. The requirement is "publication to a third party ", which can be something sent privately to just one other individual. One of the cases law students learn (can't remember its name now) involved a libellous letter sent to a firm which was seen by the post room (or some such) and that was held sufficient to be "publication to a third party ".

 

There would be other obstacles to a libel claim against OP though but that's not really the point. The point for OP to consider is not whether any law firm could ultimately obtain a judgement for libel, it's that making a statement like that just gives them ammunition to try and tie you in legal knots and make further threats. No point in poking them with a sharp stick to see they bite if it isn't going to help you fight a PCN.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ethel, that was back in the 1920's and libel laws have changed in the dafamation act of 2013, esentially to make the bar higher to make a claim for libel so not sure it that still applies.

 

Court procedure is also very different along with proof of the harm done and Gladstones will fall at that hurdle!

 

What does fail though is writing very meek letter saying I am not liable becasue they will carry on in the belief that that person will pay up when a N1 lands on their doorstep. Being very forthright and making it clear that not only will you be robust in your defence but have knowledge of their behaviour does make them think again.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Defamation Act didn't change the 'publication' requirement - s15 "“publish” and “publication”, in relation to a statement, have the meaning they have for the purposes of the law of defamation generally" - but as I said before whether the law firm could actually secure judgement for libel (unlikely in this case I agree) is rather missing my point.

 

 

Which is that to suggest to a firm of solicitors they are trying to obtain money by deception is just inviting trouble for no good reason and simply gives the law firm another line of attack against you.

 

 

I agree that writing a robust letter of response is a good thing, but there are better ways of demonstrating your robustness and knowledge than accusing them of a criminal offence!

 

It sounds like you managed to track down the case I remembered from long ago, which one was it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It was mentioned on a TV programme a couple of weeks back about the life of someone in Southampton the names of the parties escape me I'm afraid.

 

The misrepresentation wuld apply to the parking co more than the lawyers as we all know, solicitors only do as their clients tell them to. Phil Shiner is a good example of a solicitor only doing as he is instructed m'lud.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Perhaps one way to slip it in would be as opinion or suggestion, rather than fact.

 

"It would seem almost as if you were trying to obtain money by deception" or "If someone didn't know better it may look like you were trying to obtain money by deception"

 

 

Says the same thing, but without the outright accusation.


We could use your help

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

 

 

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.

 

If I've helped you at all, please feel free to click on the little star under my posts and leave feedback :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly DF softly softly by back door.


We could do with some help from you.

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING EVERY POUND DONATED WILL HELP US TO KEEP HELPING OTHERS

 

Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

 

The bailiff: A 12th Century solution re-branded as Enforcement Agents for the 21st Century to seize and sell debtors goods as before Oh so Dickensian!

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...