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    • Hi, In my last post I mentioned I had received an email from SS who were asking me to hand over the keys to my mother’s flat so they could pass them to the Law firm who have been appointed court of protection to access, secure and insure my mother’s property.  Feeling this, all quickly getting out of my hands I emailed ss requesting proof of this. I HAVEN’T HEARD BACK FROM SS.  Yesterday, I received an email (with attached court of protection order) from the Law Firm confirming this was correct (please see below a copy of this).  After reading the court of protection order I do have some concerns about it:   (a)   I only found out yesterday, the Law firm had been appointed by the court back in January.  Up until now, I have not received any notification regarding this.  (b)   Section 2   - States I am estranged from my mother.  This is NOT CORRECT    The only reason I stepped back from my mother was to protect myself from the guy (groomer) who had befriended her & was very aggressive towards me & because of my mother’s dementia she had become aggressive also.  I constantly tried to warned SS about this guy's manipulative behaviour towards my mother and his increasing aggressiveness towards me (as mentioned in previous posts).  Each time I was ignored.  Instead, SS encouraged his involvement with my mother – including him in her care plans and mental health assessments.   I was literally pushed out because I feared him and my mother’s increasing aggression towards me. Up until I stepped back, I had always looked after my mother and since her admission to the care home, I visit regularly.   .(c)    Sections -  4, 5 and 7  I am struggling to understand these as I don’t have a legal background.  I was wondering if there is anyone who might be able to explain what they mean.  It’s been a horrendous situation where I had to walk away from my mother at her most vulnerable because of; ss (not helping), scammer and groomer. I have no legal background, nor experience in highly manipulative people or an understanding of how the SS system operates, finding myself isolated, scared and powerless to the point I haven’t collected my personal belongings and items for my mother’s room in the care home.  Sadly, the court has only had heard one version of this story SS’s, and based their decision on that. My mother’s situation and the experience I have gone through could happen to anyone who has a vulnerable parent.    If anyone any thoughts on this much appreciated.  Thank you. ______________________________________________________  (Below is the Court of Protection Order)  COURT OF PROTECTION                                                                                                                                                                                   No xxx  MENTAL CAPACITY ACT 2005 In the matter of Name xxx ORDER Made by  Depty District Judge At xxx Made on xxx Issued on 18 January 2024  WHEREAS  1.     xxx Solicitors, Address xxx  ("Applicant”) has applied for an order under the Mental Capacity Act 2005.  2.     The Court notes (my mother) is said to be estranged from all her three children and only one, (me) has been notified.  3.     (Me) was previously appointed as Atorney for Property and Affairs for (my mother).  The Exhibity NAJ at (date) refers to (me) and all replacement Attorneys are now officially standing down.  4.     Pursuant to Rule 9.10 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 and Practice Direction 9B the Applicant 2must seek to identify at least three persons who are likely to have an interest in being notified that an application has been issues.”  The children of (my mother), and any other appointed attorneys are likely to have an interest in the application, because of the nature of relationship to (my mother).  5.     The Court considers that the notification requirements are an important safeguard for the person in respect of whom an order is sought.  6.     The Court notes that it is said that the local authority no longer has access to (my mother’s) Property.  7.     Further information is required for the Court to determine the application.  IT IS ORDERED THAT  Within 28 days of the issue date this order, the Applicant shall file a form COP24 witness statement confirming that the other children of (my mother) and any replacement attorneys have been notified of the application and shall confirm their name, address, and date upon which those persons were notified.  If the Applicant wishes the Court to dispense with any further notification, they should file a COP9 and COP24 explaining, what steps (if any) have been taken to attempt notification and why notification should be dispensed with.   Pending the determination of the application to appoint a deputy for (my mother), the Applicant is authorised to take such steps as are proportionate and necessary to access, secure and insure the house and property of (my mother).   This order was made without a hearing and without notice.  Any person affected by this order may apply within 21 days of the date on which the order was served to have the order set aside or varied pursuant to Rule 13.4 of the Court of Protection Rules 2017 (“the Rules”).  Such application must be made on Form COP9 and in accordance with Part 10 Rules.              
    • Unless I've got an incorrect copy of the relevant regulation: The PCN is only deemed to have arrived two days after dispatch "unless the contrary is proved" in which case date of delivery does matter (not just date of posting) and I would like clarification of the required standard of proof. It seems perhaps this hasn't been tested. Since post is now barcoded for the Post Office's own tracking purposes perhaps there is some way I can get that evidence from the Post Office...
    • I would say You should accept it - I HIGHLY doubt you will  be able to claim for letters at trial ans they’re offering you that, which is higher monetary value than interest.   Also they raise a good point, getting interest at anything above 4% is lucky these days, yes judges give it, but rarily above 4%   Also you might find depending on the judge  you don’t get some costs if you take it all the way over £7.40 when court woukdnt award letters costs and thus meaning their award would be less than evris offer which was made    Up to you though but the wait will be 3-4mo for a trial date at least
    • Hi Folks, Been 162 days! Just by way of update. Today I received a text from Opos Ltd so no doubt Capquest are renting the debt out to anybody who fancies a nibble. Safe to say I will not be responding.
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Unable to pay fine and costs - 3yrs old Butt Littering fine


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Can anyone help on this issue.

 

About 3 years ago I put a cigarette out when unexpectedly being called into a shopping centre.

I shouldn't have, and I got caught by council enforcer.

 

At the time, I was going through a very difficult break up, and was homeless as a result effectively.

I am self employed on a low income, and could not claim tax credits as the previous relationship I was in meant my name is still on the deeds

 

effectively its my home to the tax credits people

they said I was still living there,

even though I wasn't.

Hadn't for 7 years.

 

I had spent my time travelling around ,

and staying with clients, friends, the new girlfriend I had, and my brother.

 

My reasonable income and security was effectively taken when the Banks called my business loan and overdraft in when they got in trouble, as they did to a lot of self employed.

 

Stupidly I remortgaged and that's a drag too.

still have to pay it so my ex doesn't get evicted.

 

And just surviving off the little I earned.

Very difficult to do my books as its all a mess

and I have nowhere I can do them properly atm despite being under the tax threshold

I still have responsibility to do them but that is difficult in the circumstances.

 

I had a big row with my brother 3 years ago as I was staying there.

We don't speak.

 

He just put return to sender on any of my mail that came there, which was mostly junk. But apparently he has discovered they have been chasing me for a fine as a bailiff company told him. He pointed out that it wasnt him and I haven't lived there and we don't speak. He is demanding to know where I am living so he can pass it on to me. I had completely forgotten about it and now its about £1500 as it went to court and everything.

 

There is no way I can pay it, prove my very low income, or effective homelessness (I am staying with two lots of very kind friends free, and don't want the bailiffs knocking on their door).

 

So what can I do? I am told I could even be arrested for it? This is terrifying me as I only have a subsistence living and cannot pay it and cant prove my income atm . I never received any notification of the court date three years ago and had forgotten all about it. They are looking for me but dont know where I am obviously and neither does my brother. I dont want to get him in trouble either, so can I approach the Court or what? If I had known re the court date obviously I would have paid when it was low.

Edited by LibertyNow1`
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If a fixed penalty notice is not paid, then within 6 months the council can ask Magistrates to consider further action.

 

I should imagine you ended up with a Magistrates court fine, which if they ( court bailiffs) caught up with you and you then failed to attend court, yes you could be arrested. It would basically be contempt of court by not following the courts instructions to attend to explain why you were not paying.

 

Probably best that you look to deal with this. You can attend the Magistrates court, swear a statutory declaration, that you never received any Magistrates summons, explain your personal situation and then hopefully receive a hearing to decide on the way forward. If Magistrates accept your declaration based on your circumstances, then the amount of fine may be reviewed and you would not have the bailiff costs.

 

If you don't deal with it, then it won't go away and they will catch up with you eventually. Deal with it now and get it resolved. You may find a Citizens Advice near the court or a rep at the court who might be able to help you if required. If you have any documents that confirm your situation and about your finances, take them to the court with you.

We could do with some help from you.

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Yes it was the other side of the country.

I never go there and its a fortune to get there.

 

can I email them or something?

And no.

I have no paperwork that is the problem.

 

Not for the court or fine or anything...

and not for my income which is meagre.

 

I didn't even get the fixed penalty fine unless my brother sent it back return to sender because it was a few days after we had a big fight.

Edited by LibertyNow1`
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Just go to your nearest Magistrates court and they should be able to help you.

You will need some form of ID to confirm who you are.

 

Magistrates will have a process for dealing with something on behalf of another court elsewhere in the country.

You are not expected to travel back to the court that dealt with it originally.

We could do with some help from you.

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my only option appears to be to travel hundreds of miles,

on money I haven't got,

 

to plead for something on a basis I can't prove,

to be arrested when they say no because I cant afford to pay it.

 

I guess I will be better off just waiting for them to catch up with me atm.

 

I didn't see your second response Uncle B.

 

Could they just arrest me there though?

 

I feel so nervous

 

I have never done anything wrong in my life.

:( £1500 for dropping a cigarette butt. Seems excessive.

 

Meanwhile criminals get off with a caution?

What kind of justice is that?)

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Unlikely if you are being seen to be dealing with it.

On the other hand, not dealing with it

(& just posting negatives about why it is still unfair and why you won’t deal with it)

 

will pretty much guarantee you’ll have bailiffs working on behalf of HMCTS catch up with you eventually, and if you blank / frustrate / avoid them, eventually it will reach a warrant / arrest stage.

 

Take a step back. As well as considering your viewpoint, look at the court’s viewpoint.

As far as they see it, you might not have been aware of events, or you might be deliberately not engaging.

 

Once you become aware of events you have a way forward (the statutory declaration).

If you’ve become aware and don’t use that statutory declaration route : it looks like evasion.

 

Not making the statutory declaration ‘promptly’ can also mean the court can decide not to re-open / re-hear the case.

So, be sensible. Take the advice offered.

 

I feel so nervous and I have never done anything wrong in my life. :( £1500 for dropping a cigarette butt. Seems excessive. Meanwhile criminals get off with a caution? What kind of justice is that?

 

It won’t be £1500 if you get the clock reset by a statutory declaration.

 

Don’t try going down the “criminals get off with a caution” route though. The court is only allowed to be interested in your case when dealing with it, so such claims aren’t relevant, but if you are “displaying attitude” it can’t help your case.

 

(In a similar vein, do people stopped for traffic offences really think telling the police officer “shouldn’t you be out catching real criminals?” will help?)

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I feel so nervous and I have never done anything wrong in my life. :( £1500 for dropping a cigarette butt. Seems excessive. Meanwhile criminals get off with a caution? What kind of justice is that?

 

Offences of dropping litter

 

The Environmental Protection Act 1990 (EPA 1990), s 87, makes it an offence to throw down, drop or otherwise deposit and then leave, litter in any place in the open air.

 

The Clean Neighbourhoods and Environment Act 2005 (CNEA 2005), s 27, amends the offence to include in the definition of litter discarded ends of cigarettes, cigars and the remains of other products designed for chewing. It also extended the powers of local authorities to tackle littering.

 

Those caught dropping litter under s 87 of EPA 1990 will be guilty of a criminal offence and liable to a maximum fine of £2,500.

 

 

Whether you like it or not, YOU are a criminal.

 

Don’t keep avoiding this, deal with it as suggested above before it gets out of hand.

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He just put return to sender on any of my mail that came there, which was mostly junk.

 

But apparently he has discovered they have been chasing me for a fine as a bailiff company told him. He pointed out that it wasnt him and I haven't lived there and we don't speak. He is demanding to know where I am living so he can pass it on to me. I had completely forgotten about it and now its about £1500 as it went to court and everything.

 

This enquiry should be in the bailiff section of the forum. I have sent a message to one of the moderators.

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Thread moved to the appropriate forum...please continue to post here to your thread.

 

 

Regards

 

Andy

We could do with some help from you.

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About 3 years ago I put a cigarette out when unexpectedly being called into a shopping centre. I shouldn't have, and I got caught by a paramilitary council enforcer thug.

 

At the time, I was going through a very difficult break up, and was homeless as a result effectively. I am self employed on a low income, and could not claim

 

So, I had a big row with my brother 3 years ago as I was staying there. We don't speak.

 

He just put return to sender on any of my mail that came there, which was mostly junk. But apparently he has discovered they have been chasing me for a fine as a bailiff company told him. He pointed out that it wasnt him and I haven't lived there and we don't speak. He is demanding to know where I am living so he can pass it on to me. I had completely forgotten about it and now its about £1500 as it went to court and everything.

 

I am told I could even be arrested for it? This is terrifying me as I only have a subsistence living and cannot pay it and cant prove my income atm . I never received any notification of the court date three years ago and had forgotten all about it.

 

They are looking for me but dont know where I am obviously and neither does my brother. I dont want to get him in trouble either, so can I approach the Court or what?

 

I have edited your question so that it only deals with the court fine.

 

Almost certainly the bailiff company will be Marston Holdings.

 

Secondly, if the enforcement company cannot locate you at your brother address, then the account will be passed to their 'tracing department'. It may be the case that they identify an address or phone number for you. If they don't, then the warrant will be returned back to the court.

 

It does appear to me that the correct course of action that you should be taking is to apply to the Magistrates Court for an appointment for what is called a Section 14 Statutory Declaration. You need to contact a court local to you. The problem that you have is that you would need to know some details about which court had convicted you (in your absence). Has you brother given you any details?

 

PS: Your query is a very simple one to resolve so please try not to worry.

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Hi. Well I do worry, and I do think it profoundly unfair.

I have no confidence in a system that allows such.

 

On top of all my other worries, being called a criminal for being poor, is not helpful.

Edited by Andyorch
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Hi. Well I do worry, and I do think it profoundly unfair.

I have no confidence in a system that allows such.

 

On top of all my other worries, being called a criminal for being poor, is not helpful.

 

I thought you were being called a criminal for the criminal offence of littering.

What has being poor got to do with it? A rich person prosecuted (& found guilty) for the same would be as guilty of the offence as a poor person.

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