Euro cr parks ANPR PCN - Surbiton Health Centre

[cynicaltoo]

1 Date of the infringement 08/11/2017

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] issue date is 05/12/2017

 

3 Date received Not sure as I was on a long trip and found it when I came back

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] Yes

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? No a search to their website only shows a table with the basic info and payment due, no photos

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up you appeal] no

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

 

7 Who is the parking company? Euro car parks

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Surbiton Health Centre, KT6 6EZ

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under.

 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure,

please check HERE BPA

 

I went to talk with the reception at Surbiton Health Centre, and they were not helpful.

 

I remember the console to register the Immatriculation number was not working on one of the days I had to go there,

but I am not sure it was on the 08/11/2017.

 

The people at the reception did not want to confirm anything and went as far as to say that they have nothing to do with the parking company.

[dx100uk]

WAS this an ANPR capture?

if it was they are out of time

dx

[cynicaltoo]

Yes it was an ANPR capture (as in captured by camera and I got the letter through the post). So is it safe to ignore? Or should I just point that out to them? New to this forum, thanks for your help!

[DragonFly1967]

Don't do anything yet. Let them waste their money.

 

If they're stupid enough to take this all the way to court (or at least issue a claim), you've got a cast iron defence. There is no keeper liability, so they can't (legally) chase you as keeper. And they'll have wasted a load of cash

[cynicaltoo]

Thanks for that answer! Will leave it for now and will update the thread if they do anything

[dx100uk]

yep ignore

until/unless you get a letter of claim or before action

or a court claimform [very doubtful]

[cynicaltoo]

Thanks! Will do that

[ericsbrother]

as they didn't slap a ticket on the car

they have to issue the NTK within 12 days after the date of the event.

Allowing for post that gives the 14 days to get it in your sticky fingers.

 

Clearly they are way outside this period so they can only claim any debt from the driver at the time, who is unknown to them and you arent obliged to tell them.

 

Also,

as they have no " reasonable cause" to obtain your keeper details they are in breach of their contract with the DVLA and in breach of the DPA for unlawfully processing your data and you can sue them for this.

 

I would advise writing to the DVLA and ask them who obtained your details and why

then write a letter of compaint about ECP telling lies to access the KADOE and ask them what are they going to do about this.

 

You will get a general response that avoids the issue so dont give up,

write again telling them that their response is pants and demand they actualy take the time to read what your complaint is about.

Copy your snotty letter to your MP

[cynicaltoo]

Just wanted to follow up on this one.

Our car is leased, therefore we get a "handling fee" for this type of requests.

 

We got back to the leasing company saying that the charge is invalid and they answered that they need proof that it has been cancelled.

 

That seems to be an unfair attempt to justify a fee that should not exist.

 

What would be the best way to deal with them?

 

Thanks again for all your help so far!

[Homer67]

Is your leased car registered on the V5 (log book) at your home address?

[DragonFly1967]

Read your lease agreement VERY carefully!

 

It will probably mention statutory fines/charges.

 

If it does, and they've charged you, ask for your money back as this most certainly isn't a statutory fine or charge.

[cynicaltoo]

Thanks! Will check the lease

 

@Homer67, it's not registered at the home address

[Homer67]

So you need to find out when they sent the NTK to the registered keeper.

[cynicaltoo]

We have received a collection letter (attached)

 

Seems like standard procedure, and DRP are acting only as an agent as they say they are acting on behalf of their client.

So as as I can understand they can not do anything really, correct?

Also the credit rating can only be impacted in case a court case is lost and then not paid in time, correct?

 

@DragonFly1967, I went through the document several time, but that is the only relevant part to this discussion

 

Motoring offences including speeding fines

It’s your responsibility to pay all fines for motoring offences,

including parking fines, bus lane contraventions, and failure to pay a congestion charge and toll charges.

This applies regardless of whether you are driving on business or private use.

 

The supplier will give the issuer of the fine your name and address if requested.

The supplier will charge you an administration fee for acting on your behalf.

You pay this fee directly to them, which will be non refundable.

 

In the event you successfully appeal a fine, the charge for the administration fee will be reviewed.

 

@Homer67, is there any way to find that out without asking directly?

[dx100uk]

good lease says nowt about speculative invoices then

and yes you ignore the powerless dca.

 

but never a letter of claim

or a claimform from northants bulk court

[lookinforinfo]

DRP have less power than your electric razor when it is switched off so you can safely ignore anything from them.

Yes you are correct that if you lose in Court you have a month to pay any fine imposed which will prevent a CCJ against your name.

 

If your hire company haven't asked you to pay their usually over inflated admin charge then they may have added the sum to your monthly direct debit. There is always a possibility especially if you are coming to the end of your hire term that they may try and lose it among your final closing figure.

[dx100uk]

Yes you are correct that if you lose in Court you have a month to pay any fine imposed

 

sorry FINE...

[DragonFly1967]

Yes you are correct that if you lose in Court you have a month to pay any fine imposed

 

sorry FINE...

 

There, there, he didn't mean it. Calm down

[cynicaltoo]

Thanks for all the replies! Let's see what happens next

[lookinforinfo]

Yes you are correct that if you lose in Court you have a month to pay any fine imposed

 

sorry FINE...

 

Glad to see you have retained your sense of humour.

[DragonFly1967]

Glad to see you have retained your sense of humour.

 

Behave, that was surgically removed when dx joined the site team

[surb-health]

yep ignore

until/unless you get a letter of claim or before action

or a court claimform [very doubtful]

 

 

 

Hi all,

 

 

Hoping one of you can clear something up for me on this thread.

I didn't want to open a new thread, but am in exactly the same position as the OP here, having received a fine from the same parking company at the same place.

 

 

@dx100uk - you say to ignore the letter as they can't prove who the driver is - is that correct?

But the pop up when I hover over "ignore" says ignoring is not the best response.

 

 

So little confused as to whether to actually ignore. (hope that makes sense)

 

 

Or should I reply with the boilerplate:

Any advice appreciated.

thanks!

 

1. It is admitted that Defendant is the recorded keeper of [motor vehicle].

 

2. It is denied that the Defendant was driving when parked in [carpark] at the times mentioned in the Particulars. The Claimant is put to strict proof of the same.

 

3. It is denied that the Claimant entered into a contract with the Defendant. As held by the Upper Tax Tribunal in Vehicle Control Services Limited v HMRC [2012] UKUT 129 (TCC), any contract requires offer and acceptance. The Claimant was simply contracted by the landowner to provide car-park management services and is not capable of entering into a contract with the Defendant on its own account, as the carpark is owned by and the terms of entry set by the landowner. Accordingly, it is denied that the Claimant has authority to bring this claim. The proper Claimant is the landowner.

 

4. The Particulars of Claim is denied in its entirety. It is denied that the Claimant is entitled to the relief claimed or any relief at all.

[dx100uk]

where does anything you have from them say FINE?

 

start a new thread

and fill out our sticky with the required details.

[lookinforinfo]

Welcome to the Forum.

Had you read all this thread you would have understood the subtleties in the use of the word "fine". You have not been fined you have received a

dubious highly speculative invoice. Only Courts can fine you.

 

The reason we advise you to ignore these invoices is that often when writing to a parking company the keeper discloses in error that they were also the driver which makes it much easier to be sued as they now have confirmation of who was driving. They should not take the keeper to Court assuming that they were the driver as they will have their case thrown out straight away.

 

Also the boiler plate response you want to use is when the keeper has received a Letter before Action. I am assuming you are at a much earlier stage than that which is why we ask that you start a new thread. [interesting phraseology on point 2 though].

 

Once we know as many facts and mistakes made by the parking company we could suggest that you write to them then

rubbishing their invoice and hoping that they will see that they have no chance of getting any money from you. Had you sent your letter to them they would think that you were an easy touch.

[surb-health]

Understand the "FINE" point now. thanks!

Will open a new thread as suggested.

cheers