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    • I'm not sure what help you need.  Also I don't think anyone is blaming you - they're simply asking for more information and clarity from you in order to try to assist.  (Difficult for you if English is not your first language).   As I understand it, the staff at the gate did offer you a refund but because you were not entirely satisfied with their attitude there was an "exchange of views" and you got escorted off the station without the refund.  Correct?   I'd simply write to the TOC's customer service people and ask for a refund.  Explain everything simply and in chronological order including what type of ticket you did or did not buy (you could perhaps use my post #27 as an outline but leave out my question about why the ticket office could not refund you).  I don't know what you say about being escorted off the station - perhaps that there was confusion because English is not your first language and the gate staff must have believed you were being too confrontational?  I don't know...   I would not complain about the gate staff and I would not raise the issue of how many other people this may happen to.   Just concentrate on getting the refund
    • You have clearly had a lot of difficulties in your life and this has caused many problems. however in order for us to assist you, we're going to need a proper bullet point chonology. I'm very sorry but there is too much narrative here and although I can see that it is very important you personally. It is very unhelpful in trying to understand the story. please could you set it out again but this time avoid the narrative. We simply can't handle it    
    • The revenue protection officer worked for a train operating company.  If you know which Train company it is, go to their website and look for their complaints process.  Then submit the complaint with full details and copies of the tickets.     
    • Why aren't you recording your calls?   Please monitor this thread for a fuller reply over the weekend    
    • Why I went back:   Eventually, after being detained too long against my will. I paid the higher fare due to threats of a fine and in effort to gain my right to freedom: I then went through the turn-styles and on my visit to the booking/box office(aka: the main ticket booth on the way out) The man said I had to go back to the turn-styles to get my refund as he said it was a different system.   I asked him to come with me. He said he could not, i asked him to hold my hand. (English term of phrase). I did not want him to actually hold my hand.   He understood that and refused as he was on shift.    That is why I had to go back. I made an account here to seek help for me and other passengers. The site admin of this forum constantly tried to pass blame onto me. for many days. I cant explain how stressful this has been after the stress of the incident.   Can you please help me?                
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Jim Rogers

Armtrac Security windscreen PNC - Over stay at St.Ives

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If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

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On Saturday afternoon a car was parked in a private car park while my family and i went to the cinema.

 

Someone bought a ticket for 3 hours expecting the film to be finished by the time the ticket would expire.

 

However, the film finished 20 minutes after the ticket had expired.

 

By the time we got back to the car (25 minutes after the ticket had expired)

we had a Parking Charge notice on the car that is asking for £100 reduced to £60 if paid within 14 days.

 

What should we do please?

 

The parking company is a member of the Independant Parking Committee.

 

Thanks for any help.

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Easily sorted. You wont have to pay a single penny. Sit tight and the regulars will be around to help.

 

Oh and welcome to Cag.

 

But for now, you do absolutely nothing until you get a NTK through the post. This will come after 28 days from the ticket on car, but before 56 days expire. If its out of those timeframes, then they cant do anything.

  • Confused 1

Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Thanks,

I tried to post pictures of the tickets and signage but it won't let me (yet)

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can you complete this please

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

 

you can post pix etc by reading UPLOAD

 

please use only ONE multipage pdf.

 

as this was a windscreen ticket

await the NTK which must arrive between 29-56 day from the date of the speculative invoice you have

 

dx


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

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Upload

 

Just ensure you fully redact ANY identifiers off the photos.

 

The fact that they are IPC members, speaks volumes, as much use as indicators on a submarine!

 

http://parking-prankster.blogspot.co.uk/2017/01/mick-cook-from-armtrac-presents.html


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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For windscreen tickets (NTD) please answer the following questions.

 

1 The date of infringement? 23 December 2017

 

2 Did you appeal to the parking company? Not yet

 

If yes, has there been any response?

If no, have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) Did the NTK provide

photographic evidence?

 

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act

2012 (PoFA)

 

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK, did the parking company give

you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever

the circumstances]

 

 

5 Who is the parking company? Armtrac Security

 

 

For

parking draft.pdf

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Ok for the moment you do nothing as the ticket is addressed to the driver, who is unknown to the parking co.

 

They now have to send a NTK to the keeper and that must arrive between 29 and 56 days after the event and have specific wording to be considered a lawful demand and also to create a keeper liability. Many parking co's dont bother to do this right so end up shooting themselves in the foot.

 

Now,

what we need to know from you is

the wording on the screen ticket and also

the wording on the signage and

 

since you bought a ticket to park,

what the wording on the ticket machine says as this is your licence to park,

not the signs

so any difference between the two is crucial..

 

Now having given you a general response

I have had a chance to read the signage you posted up and

 

have noticed a few problems for the parking co.

The signs that has the tariff doesnt mention a penalty for overstaying so there has been no breach of contract as there is no clause you have breached.

 

Their signage does not have an address for the company,

just a PO Box number

and this means that they cant issue a lawful demand for payment

so again you owe nothing.

 

irdly the sign saying conditions apply means

the offer is not a contract but an "invitation to treat"

and that means no unilateral terms

but individually agreed terms and

 

if you then decide to pay them £3.30 for 3 hours parking and the machine accepts the money then they have accepted that conditional off you made.

 

Now regarding the screen ticket issued at 16.47,

when exactly did your ticket expire

and was the cinema a property connected to the car park?

 

This has little to do with this ticket

but the cinema may have had complaints about this before and another will add weight to their representations to their landlord regarding the behaviour of their servants

 

( the parking co's dont own the car park, they just tell rather fanciful stories about how brilliant they are at "managing them and the landlord takes them at their word but the reality is very different

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thanks,

I think I still have the ticket in the car,

 

I will get a picture of the ticket machine on Friday morning when in the area again.

 

The cinema has no connection with the car park at all.

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As you can see, defeating these matters takes time so dont be looking for a quick solution, there isnt one.

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I have not got the parking ticket I bought.

 

Although it goes against the grain should I spend £1 and buy another one?

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no. no need at all.

 

You do absolutely nothing now until you get a NTK through the post.


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Notice to Keeper was received in the post today,

What should we do next please?

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scan it up both side to one pdf

read upload


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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Well, for a start, the NTK isnt complaint so theyre on a road to nowhere.

 

Im laughing hard at the bit at the end where you are "required " to sign though


Any advice i give is my own and is based solely on personal experience. If in any doubt about a situation , please contact a certified legal representative or debt counsellor..

 

 

If my advice helps you, click the star icon at the bottom of my post and feel free to say thanks

:D

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Hi Jim. The people who reply to your posts are all volunteers [ie unpaid]so there is an expectancy that when you have a problem with the private parking rogues that you do your bit too.

 

For instance if you read other threads on this section you will find that others have been harassed by Amtrac or another company for the same reason as yourself.

 

If you read through some of those threads you will see explanations of why your NTK has flaws.

Nevertheless these companies are stupid, greedy and venal so even if you tell them your notice is not compliant, most tend to ignore your plea and carry on pursuing you and even adding unlawful charges to the original cost.

 

So there is the possibility that you could end up in Court-not because they have a strong case but to encourage others to pay up rather then go to court.

 

With Armtrac it is perhaps not so likely that they will take you to court as some of the other companies, but if they do, it is better you find out yourself the whys and wherefores of what is happening to you.

 

That way, not only do you win in court, but you could get a sizeable payment from Amtrac for the aggravation etc awarded by the court.

 

These parking cheats to comply with the Law have to chase the driver, not you the registered keeper-they cannot assume in Law that you are one and the same person.

 

In all communication with them always word it so that you do not divulge that were the driver if you were.

Things like "I did not see any signs" would be a dead giveaway that you were the driver.

 

If instead you said something like the driver told me they did not see any signs, not only are you not admitting that you were the driver, you also have not indicated the sex of the driver either.

 

They should comply with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 [POFA] but some do not bother either through stupidity or laziness.

http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2012/9/schedule/4/enacted will give you an idea of what the rogues should do to help win in court.

 

You are lucky in a way that Armtrac use the IPC as they know less about the Laws relating to private parking than you do.

 

Indeed their own Code of Conduct that their members have to adhere to has sections in it that are just totally wrong and would not stand up in Court. So it is perhaps not surprising that their members get the same things wrong too.

 

You would have thought that IPC would have found out by now themselves but stupid is as stupid does and it is in your favour that they cannot get it right.

 

It is a constant source of amazement to me that our ever alert DVLA [that was sarcasm] who have "robust"checks on the private parking companies appear either have not read their Code or if they have, do not understand that what they are reading is wrong in Law.

 

When you read some of the other threads,

you may come across on of Erics brother's suggested letter to a PPC which may seem rude.

 

It is intended to be and once it has been read the less stupid often give up and chase some one else who has less knowledge of the parking laws than they have.

 

The more venal of them keep going and demanding even more money which immediately renders those claims unlawful. The mind boggles as to how dumb these companies are.

 

However when you do get stuck or need help do ask

  • Haha 1

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we still havent seen the screen tickey they slapped on your car so we cant compare the supposed breaches. Likewise if they say the breach is having an expired ticket theh we need to see the signs to see where this is shown as a clause in their contract they offer you.

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Good old IPC and their "approved" signage.

 

OK. "Sign 1" (the blue one in case they get merged).

 

This contains the parking tariff and some (scant) terms and conditions. This doesn't appear to be an "IPC Approved" sign, but that's by the by.

 

In the terms and conditions as displayed on that sign, it says at 6. "Return before or on your expiry time", leaving the awful grammar aside, you have complied with that condition, even if your vehicle was parked there for a month. You must have returned to your vehicle in order to put the pay & display ticket inside of it. Therefore... :thumb:

 

So, because you have satisfied condition 6. The term at 7 is invalid because you haven't broken the rules above. :thumb:

 

Seems fairly straightforward. If you break the rules we can issue a ticket, but if you don't break the rules we can't.

 

-

 

On to "Sign 2" (the red one in case they get merged).

 

This is the magical "IPC Approved" sign. Let's look at the terms and conditions on this one.

 

All vehicles must fully display a valid pay & display ticket in the front windscreen so that all details can be inspected. I'm presuming you did buy a P&D ticket and display it properly. So... :thumb:

Vehicles must be parked fully with the confines of a marked bay. I'm presuming that you parked correctly. So... :thumb:

Vehicles must not park on double yellow lines, hatched areas, pavements, or causing an obstruction. Seems to be a bit of a repeat of the term above, and as we've already assumed that you parked correctly. :thumb:

Vehicles parked in disabled bays (though quite how one parks in a bay that is disabled isn't explained) must display a valid disabled blue badge in the windscreen in addition to the requirements above. I've got a blue badge. I think it's "The Tufty Club", the pin has fallen off the back. Does that make it a "Disabled blue badge"? But anyway. :thumb:

 

Failure to comply with the terms and conditions contained within this sign, etc etc waffle waffle. You did remember to look INSIDE the sign for any additional terms and conditions, didn't you? :-)

 

But, presuming that there were no hidden terms inside the sign, you've complied with all of the terms and conditions displayed so... :thumb:

 

"Sign 3", the "P" sign isn't really worth mentioning as it's only an advertisement telling you to go and look at another advertisement.

 

-

 

So. Given all of the above. Where in their "IPC Approved" terms and conditions does it say that you have to remove your vehicle from the site when the P&D ticket that you've bought expires, and that if you don't, they'll issue you with a parking charge notice? :|

 

Their reason for issue of the PCN: "Expired ticket" isn't covered in their own terms & conditions. So they're down at the first hurdle.

 

OOPS!


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Thanks for that great reply, I had never noticed the flaws in the signage like that.

 

I did buy a ticket and park within the white lines etc.

 

What do you recommend that I do next please?

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Well, you've already received the first bombardment of junk mail, the NtK.

 

It's pretty much a waste of a stamp for you to appeal to Armtrack. IPC members tend to live on a different planet than everyone else and firmly believe that the laws of the land don't apply to them. They'll probably be talked in to (eventually) issuing a letter before action either by BW Legal (BWL) or Gladstones (Gladrags) as they're the usual culprits.

 

This is then the time to start teaching them that it does.

 

Until you actually receive a LBA, I'd do absolutely nothing. You'll be drowning in letters from their pet debt collections (nothing to fear there) and probably one or two letters that are claiming to be from "Solicitors", usually solicitors acting as debt collectors (so nothing to fear there either).

 

You're in the right because you have not breached any of their advertised terms and conditions, therefore they had no reason to issue the NtD in the first place, and certainly no valid reason to get the keepers details from the DVLA.

 

And safe in that knowledge, you let them waste as much of their money as they like until the house of cards that they've built for themselves comes tumbling down around their ears. :lol:


We could use your help

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

 

 

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.

 

If I've helped you at all, please feel free to click on the little star under my posts and leave feedback :)

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Ok, thanks,

Someone has suggested I write to them stating the following:

 

I am the keeper of vehicle xxxx and am in receipt of your Notice to Keeper xxxxx

 

The NTK fails to comply with the requirements of Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012, namely, but not limited to, section 8 (2) (f) in that a warning to the keeper has not been made. I agree with you that the the driver is liable for this charge but I, as the keeper, can not be held liable for the actions of the driver at the time. There is no legal duty to identify the driver and I will not be doing so. I have, as requested, passed your NTK to the driver and they may contact you about this matter. Consequently I do not expect to hear from you again other than to confirm that no further action will be taken against me on the matter.

 

Worth it or should I just sit back and do nothing?

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You could, it wouldn't do any harm, but honestly, you're wasting your effort and a stamp.

 

There's no point in telling them what they already know. And believe me, they know. They're just banking on the fact that you (and most others) don't. It's a numbers game.


We could use your help

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

 

 

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.

 

If I've helped you at all, please feel free to click on the little star under my posts and leave feedback :)

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