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Hxcpm pcn Claimform - St Georges, Fitzwilliam St, Huddersfield


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no you dont mention anything like that,

you are telling them to

they still broke the law to get the keeper details and that is that.

 

Did you acknowledge being the driver?

NO so they have no reason to chase you and that is a breach as well

 

Now read more about all of this so you dont shoot yourself in the foot at a later stage.

 

they rely on ignorance to get anywhere or they would lose every claim they ever made

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Hi. I've been doing lots of reading around this and I just wanted to get your opinion on a matter.

 

The ticket issued stated the name of the landowner but the potential claimant is Hx Cpm.

 

Does the wording on the ticket mean that the 'contract' was between myself and the landowner?

 

I'm just wondering on what legal basis Hx Cpm have a right to bring a claim?

Sorry if this sounds daft.

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HX are claiming that they have a contract with both the landowner and the driver. If they did, that would be fantastic news for them as it would mean that they'd be able to charge for PCN's under it. Wonderful news for HX, they'll make a small fortune!

 

However, somewhat unfortunately for HX the driver of the vehicle individually negotiated a contract with the parking attendant. Whether or not the parking attendant had the authority/right to do that is between HX and the attendant, it's not the drivers business or concern.

 

The individually negotiated contract has supremacy over any of the signs that were on site which attempted to form a contract but were not individually negotiated. HX will lose on the basis of contra proferentem, which broadly states that where there is doubt about the meaning of a contract, the words will be construed against the party who put them forward.

 

So, HX don't have a contract to enforce against either the driver and especially against the keeper.

 

Whichever way HX choose to play this, they will lose. They have absolutely nothing to base a claim on.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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Thanks for this.

 

Another thing I'm not sure of is that they've mentioned a version of the Information sheet and Reply form that can be completed on their website but said I can request a paper version.

 

It's a bit late for a paper version.

 

Do I have to reply using a certain form or can I just send a letter?

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Thanks for this. Another thing I'm not sure of is that they've mentioned a version of the Information sheet and Reply form that can be completed on their website but said I can request a paper version. It's a bit late for a paper version. Do I have to reply using a certain form or can I just send a letter?

 

There's no requirement for you to use their form, a letter will be just fine :thumb:

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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Thanks. I don't feel comfortable using their website.

 

I note that in the LBC they haven't mentioned on what basis they are bringing a claim on behalf of their clients, e.g. breach of contract. They only mention the amount.

 

Should they have done this to comply with 6a of the Practice Direction which sets out that the claimant should write to the defendant with concise details of the claim..etc

 

They have also failed to mention what evidence they are relying on.

 

Should I mention this or am I barking up the wrong tree?

 

Many thanks

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Ah yes, I see it now. As per usual then, Gladrags, those wonderful unbeatable parking solicitors have completely failed to understand the law. Quite what use a firm of solicitors that don't understand law is, is frankly about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

 

I'd go with exactly what ericsbrother suggested in post #24. No need to change it, there's no requirement to be polite to these people.

 

By going back in strong, they'll realise that you're not about to roll over and pay. This makes it a lot less likely that their going to win and not lose their clients money (again).

 

This is only a reply to their LBA/C so a short sharp 'jog on' is all that's needed here. Gladrags *should* pass your reply to their clients for further instructions. If they do HX might realise that you might be about to empty their petty cash tin and throw in the towel :thumb:

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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you shouldnt even be contemplating using their website, you just send a simple letter and be forthright, dont try and plead some soprt of mitigation or answer their points, you state what is what and let them decide whether they want to do their worst. The tougher you are in response the less likely they are to go after you

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you shouldnt even be contemplating using their website, you just send a simple letter and be forthright, dont try and plead some soprt of mitigation or answer their points, you state what is what and let them decide whether they want to do their worst. The tougher you are in response the less likely they are to go after you

 

Thanks for your comment. So you're saying that it's best to keep it short and not mention things like the attendant not mentioning any signage? Do you find that this respnse normally makes the

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Send the post at #24 in this thread.

 

It may not make them 'go away', but it will give them pause for thought. If Gladrags do what they should *however unlikely* and show your reply to their clients for further instruction, then HX *might* tell Gladrags to drop it, because they'll realise that you're not going to be an easy mark.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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Sorry. I hope you don't think I'm questioning your expertise - it's just that I've read that they're not shy of taking matters further even if they are on dodgy ground and, to be honest, if I can put this to bed at this stage and mention all the reasons why taking this further wouldn't be a good idea then I'd rather do that BUT I also don't want to shoot myself in the foot by doing so. It's all very overwhelming.

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Let's put it this way. You could send them a reply akin to 'war & peace' if you wanted to. Gladrags are a law unto themselves. Normal laws do not apply, they don't need no stinking rulez. :lol:

 

If you want to make sure that HX see it, send a copy of your reply directly to them as well as Gladrags.

 

The only thing that you can hope for is that they realise that you're not going to be a push over and that they stand a good chance of losing in court and losing yet more money.

 

It's a numbers game to them, and the only number that matters is on their bottom line.

Please note that my posts are my opinion only and should not be taken as any kind of legal advice.
In fact, they're probably just waffling and can be quite safely and completely ignored as you wish.

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between them the parking cos issue thousands of claims each year and the majority they win. Why? 85% go undefended and of the remaining hundreds many peopel write stuff like " I was only there an extra 5 mins so it shouldnt cost me £100 and as the claim is all ablout contracts they get sympathy but nothing else.

 

Of the hundreds that are vigourously defended with the sort of arguments we promote it is very rare indeed for the parking cos to win in court. The main reason for this is they dont send time submitting a proper clim and their evidence falls short of proving they have a case to answer. The real reason they fail to show this is because they dont haqve a cause for action and if judges recognised some of these points such as the illegality of not having planning permission then the parking co;s would lose even more and make a defendants life easier.

 

So, the parking co's, egged on by Gladstones promises of an easy win but with their own self interest at heart do sue even if you respnd to their lbalink3.gif but they are LESS likely to carry on if they have been bitten once before and had to pay out costs on the back of an earwigging for their poor presentation at court. Now the bunch you are dealing with havent had to pay out fortunes in costs yet as they are only just passing their claims through the system but in about a months time they wil have had a couple of defended cases heard and if they get spanked as we expect them to then I would bet on them dropping yours like a hot potato.

 

It would be nice to see a few more peopel suing the parking cos's for breach of the DPA once they have batted off a claim as well. If the parking co's lost £1000 EVERY time they sued then they would run away as soon as you sent them a strongly worded letter and then hope you didnt sue them to boot.

Edited by honeybee13
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  • 1 month later...

Hi.

Last week I received a County Court Claim Form and I know that I need to act quickly at this point.

 

In the Particulars of Claim section, it states "for breaching the terms of the parking on the land at...".

 

Do they need to be more specific than that, i.e. do they need to specify the actual breach at this point so that I know what I am defending?

 

Also, they mention the name of the car park and the street but not the town. Will this help me in any way?

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OK. Here goes...

"The driver of the vehicle registration XXXXXXX (the 'Vehicle') incurred the parking charge(s) on xx/xx/2017 for breaching the terms of parking at the land at St Georges Car Park Fitzwilliam Street The Defendant was driving the Vehicle and/or is the Keeper of the Vehicle. AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS £160 for Parking Charges/Damages and indemnity costs if applicable, together with interest of £4.28 pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at 8% pa, continuing to Judgment at £0.04 per day."

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If you've ack the claim on MCOL website..defend all

Then get the CPR 31:14 running to the solicitors

It's a sticky on the forums homepage

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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usual crap POC that doesnt even state who they are suing or why.

Big difference between driver and keeper and no mention of the tye of claim,

 

whether it is a contractual charge or for breach of contract.

To their mind it is all the same but it isnt.

 

If I give you some sweets and you promise to pay me £1 tomorrow and then dont pay me that is a breach of contract.

 

If you agree to buy some sweets for £1 but then change your mind then you owe me £1 as a contractual obligation whether you had the sweets or not.

 

In the first case you owe me for the sweets you had ( you owe becuase you broke the agreement) and in the second you agreed to an obligation so I am entitled to the money so you owe me even if the sweets didnt exist.

 

Often the signage the parking cowboys refers to one or the other but they get confused when they start leagl action so now they dont even bother saying why the money is owed.

This will be part of your defence.

 

you are right about the lack of datail and that is a breach of the Civil Procedure Rules so you can put that to the court. This will get you a 25% reduction in the value of the claim but we want you to thrash them so in your case we are looking for getting the whole thing thrown out for being shoddy

 

more on that point later, a letter with your skeleton defence asking for the claim to be struck out under CP rules but let us see if they respond to the CPR31.14 first ( they wont) as you can use that against them in the same letter.

 

It usually gets them a case amanagement order to do it properly rather than a strike out.

God knows why, they are serial offenders

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pop up on the MCOL website detailed on the claimform.

.

register as an individual

note the long gateway number given

then log in

.

select respond to a claim and select the start AOS box.

.

then using the details required from the claimform

.

defend all

leave jurisdiction unticked.

click thru to the end

confirm and exit MCOL.

 

get a CPR 31:14 request running to the solicitors [below link]

.

type your name ONLY

 

no need to sign anything

.

you DO NOT await the return of paperwork.

you MUST file a defence regardless by day 33 from the date on the claimform.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?486334-CPR-31.14-Request-to-use-on-receipt-of-a-PPC-(-Private-Land-Parking-Court-Claim)

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Follow EB, DX and DF and you should be able to thrash these chancers the POC is the same old same old Gladdys use everytime, they have used it so often along with the extra £60 unicorn food tax that they should be barred from the Northampton Bulk kangaroo court.

We could do with some help from you.

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If you want advice on your thread please PM me a link to your thread

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  • 3 weeks later...

Hi. Personal circumstances have meant that I have not yet managed to send a CPR 31:14 letter. Date of claim 9/4.

I did manage to acknowledge the claim.

I'm really up against it now time wise to lodge my defence.

 

Please could you help me with the following questions?

 

1. Is it too late now to send the 31:14 letter and, if so, shall I just concentrate on defending the claim raising as many points as possible?

 

2. In the defence, should I refer to the vague POC making the point that I am not sure what I am defending?

 

3. My main argument is that a unilateral contract was made with the car park attendant as he did not refer to T&Cs, neither did the ticket and I was not aware of any signage. Apart from making that point, shall I cover all bases by mentioning that, in any event if they were to rely on that argument (which is denied), the amount of the fine is an unfair contract term and differentiates from Beavis and why I think it does?

 

4. Do I have to mention case law in my defence for every legal point or just state fact?

 

5. Can I upload photos with my defence online or do I just refer to evidence that can be produced in court, e.g. the original car parking ticket proving that I bought a valid ticket, photos of unclear signage or shall I just leave it to them to prove the opposite?

 

I'm not sure how much evidence I have to come up with at this stage,

e.g. I have spoken to several people on the train platform who have had similar problems with this company and, say, if I could get an independent witness to verify my version of events, would it have to be at the time I lodged my defence or can I produce witness statements at a later date in the proceedings?

 

6. When I've looked at other people's defences, the points are numbered. Is that just so the other side can refer to points 1, 2 and 3 and address them or do I have to put things in a particular order?

 

I'm working on my defence right now and may have more questions but sure would appreciate your advice and support to get me through this.

I'm on my own and can't afford legal support.

Had to keep it from my family so they don't worry about this.

 

Many thanks guys

Edited by dx100uk
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defence due by Friday 4pm.

get the crp running tomorrow.

 

just use the 2 line basic defence in most threads here

 

anything else will be for your witness statement. IF the claim goes that far!!

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Thanks.

I'm off work tomorrow so can get it done hopefully.

 

I'm really sorry but which threads should I be looking at?

Is there a link anywhere about the process and what/how much needs to be lodged and when?

 

I've found a certain amount out online but a lot of help seems to be more aimed at people bringing a small claim than defending one (unless I'm just not finding it!)

 

When does the witness statement need to be lodged?

Is it before a hearing if the matter goes that far?

 

Somehow, I think they'll not let this matter drop and it will go to a court hearing.

From what I've read, they don't seem shy of taking matters all the way.

I guess they're relying on people like me messing up.

Edited by dx100uk
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