Arrow/eversheds trying to enforce 2009 suspended repo GE money

[Rachaelb]

Thank you for getting back to me so quickly.

 

I am confused as to the wording

"The Claimant wishes to enforce the order dated 23rd November 2009 in an attempt to keep costs to a minimum as opposed to issuing fresh proceedings, which will incur additional costs." and also

 

"The reason for the delay in issuing the warrant of possession is because the claimant considers repossession as the last resort."

What does this mean?

 

I can defend their application via a form N244

 

in the first instance wanted to see if I could make an arrangement with Arrow before the court issues the eviction date

(how lovely to receive this just before Christmas!!)

 

Would it not prove to the court if it goes to a hearing if I submit a N244 that I am trying to resolve the issue with Arrow?

 

Do I really have to provide them with wage slips and bank statements?

I just have a gut feeling that they are paying lip service and will say "no" to any attempt I make.

[dx100uk]

several old threads merged

shame you didn't [again] get that sar to GE done

you could have reclaimed £1000's by now and not be in this position now,

 

dx

[Ell-enn]

Ring them and tell them you have taken advice and will be opposing their N244 application with a defence against it (see what they say to that). We can then get to work on a suitable statement etc.

[Rachaelb]

I have already told them I will be opposing their N244 application and they basically said "that's your choice". In the meantime, should I not do as they ask and try to set up an instalment plan to repay the debt plus arrears over the remaining term?

[AndyOrch]

You may find the following of interest.....

 

http://www.lpc-law.co.uk/news/latest-news/2015/august/permission-to-enforce-august-2015/

 

Andy

[Rachaelb]

Thanks Andy, that is a very interesting read.

 

Do you have any advice given the contents of the article on how I should proceed now?

 

I really want to try and sort this out with Arrow before I receive the eviction date.

 

Should I go back to them with a proposal?

[AndyOrch]

Is it possible to scan (redact) and upload a copy of this N244 and is it supported by a witness statement ?

[Rachaelb]

I have attached the N244 application from Eversheds which details the order they are requesting and the evidence.

There is no witness statement.

 

Interestingly there is also a global substitution order dated 4th May 2017 ordering Arrow be substituted for GE Money in all civil proceedings which are set you in the attached schedule (there is no schedule attached).

 

There is a statement at the bottom where if there any objections to the order an application must be made to set it aside within 7 days of receiving it.

 

What does this mean?

 

I never received the global substitution order until now along with the N244

or does it mean I have 7 days to request the warrant for eviction/suspended repossession be set aside?

[dx100uk]

can you pop all those into ONE multipage PDF

else we'll be here all night downloading.

read upload

dx

[Rachaelb]

Many apologies. I have attached the document as a PDF.

 

I am worried sick about this and have been unable to sleep these last few days.

For this to happen just before Christmas is just devastating.

 

I want to go back to Arrow with a proposal for repaying the loan plus arrears over the remaining term and need advice on the best possible course of action to prevent my home from being repossessed.

 

I would be very grateful for your opinion and advice on the following:

 

Arrow have said that they have been unable to formalise any arrangement on my account so are taking these steps because they needed to discuss my circumstances and affordability, have not been able to do this so have had to resort to enforcing the suspended repossession order.

 

I have submitted the same repayment proposals on three separate occasions in recent months, supported by documentary evidence from my employers and an income and expenditure breakdown.

 

I have also completed a direct debit mandate form and returned this to Arrow so I am confused as to why they are saying they need further information.

 

Arrow contacted my mortgage providers to ask if I was in arrears,

if payments were up-to-date,

what the total amount outstanding was

and how many years I had left.

My mortgage providers refused to give them this information.

 

I complained about this to Arrow

they have not explained why they took this course of action.

Surely this is not right?

 

What is this Global Substitution Order dated 4th May 2017 (attached)?

 

It says at the bottom that

“if you object to the Order you must make an application to the court to have it set aside, varied or stayed within 7 days of receiving it”

 

I did not receive this back in May and the first time I’ve seen this is when I received the N244 from Arrow’s solicitors.

 

hat does this mean and should I have been sent a copy in May?

 

What is this “expiry of 6 years in accordance with CPR Rule 83.2(3)” (see attached) and why in the evidence box are they stating

 

“The reason for the delay in issuing the Warrant for Possessions is because the Claimant considers repossession as the last resort”?

 

Surely this is just lip service as they have not shown any interest in acknowledging my repayment proposals and supporting documentation.

 

Do I really have to provide them with my bank statements?

 

I currently have just under 10 years left on my mortgage,

payments are up-to-date

and I have in the region of £200,000 equity in my property

(based upon valuations provided early 2017).

 

If the repossession were to take place,

my home would be sold for far less than the current market value just to repay the Arrow loan which is currently £25,494.

 

My ability to secure a mortgage would be seriously affected, if I could get one at all.

I am a single parent and rely on the help and support of my neighbours and my daughter is at the local school.

 

We would never be able to afford to buy another property in this area so the effects of losing our home would be devastating in so many ways.

 

I wrote to them about this and they declined to answer

when I spoke to the chap from Arrow on Thursday last week he said it was

“within their rights”.

It was not a smooth transition.

 

I posted on here about how Arrow from the start were hassling me for the full arrears and how they sent a chap from Excel around to discuss my account then charged me for the visit and consultation even though I wasn’t in.

 

There was no clarity on what my monthly repayments should be and I even received a blank direct debit mandate.

 

Previously, with GE Money my monthly repayments were in total £237.60 which was £167.73 contractual plus £69.87 arrears payment.

 

I have already provided Arrow with an income and expenditure sheet clearly showing I was proposing my payments to them could be increased to £260.

 

Is there not some evidence of disproportionate action against me here?

I disagree with the evidence set out in the N244 by Arrow’s solicitors in that they consider repossessing my home other than as a last resort and they most certainly have not explored all other possible options. Not responding to my proposals is surely evidence of this?

docs1.pdf

[Ell-enn]

Have you written a letter yet ?

 

 

I know you are panicking but your main mortgage is up to date which is a great plus point for your court statement - and there is no way a judge will order possession when you are able to make payments towards the arrears.

[Rachaelb]

Many thanks for getting back to me.

 

Do you mean have I submitted a N244 application to the court?

No not yet as I thought I couldn't do this until I had a date for the eviction?

 

I have already told Arrow that I have sought advice and if they insist on refusing any reasonable proposals I make I will be applying to the court and will be attaching copies of my previous correspondence to Arrow which clearly detail my complaint(s) and also my repayment proposals.

 

There's no point in writing to Arrow again because they are refusing to do anything until I speak to them in person and go through an income and expenditure plus supply full bank statement and wage slips. I've never been asked to provide wage slips and bank statements?

 

Essentially, what I want to do now is to try and set up an arrangement with Arrow before it's gets to an eviction date stage.

I wanted to ask your advice on what to say and what not to say first though.

[AndyOrch]

Reading between the lines it appears that Arrow have themselves created the arrears by failing to honour the previous payment arrangements in place with GE and ignoring your attempts to arrange a new agreement.

 

The Global Substitution is normal when a debt is assigned..nothing you can do or need to be concerned with so forget that.

The Suspended Warrant from 2009 has a shelf life of 6 years so the new owner (Arrow) is simply using a legal stance to try to renew without need of further costs and having to instigate it from fresh...so again nothing for you to worry on that point.

 

The only thing that requires your attention now is getting this payment plan in action and accepted....Arrow should and most would normally honour the previous payment arrangements and accept the arrears position...but then again this is Arrow...a DCA...not a creditor so their viewpoint on dealing with this is completely different to the OCs.

 

Now it is vital to get a plan in place..if this requires disclosing statements and wage slips then so be it...but you do have a law known as Estoppel in this matter were a Court as already determined payment and therefore that legally stands...as Arrow have purchased a debt subject to a Suspended Order...albeit which has since expired ...hence their recent application to renew.

 

It is very important that you preserve all your communications and requests to Arrow with any responses.

 

The Court has only allowed the name change at this stage and has yet to consider their application to renew the Suspended Order...which I have already covered in my initial link.

 

So moving forward Arrow should accept the previous court agreed monthly amount and its for you to negotiate an extra payment on the arrears...in the meantime its for the court to consider their application to renew the Suspended Order

 

Regards

 

Andy

[Ell-enn]

How many payments have you missed under the original suspended order?

[Rachaelb]

Hi Andy,

 

Many thanks for this.

 

Can I just ask that in the case of Estoppel

(in this matter were a Court as already determined payment and therefore that legally stands)

does this still apply if I have missed payments this year?

 

Under the original suspended order I have missed none.

Then when the debt was transferred to Arrow, no DD arrangement was in place

 

it took a few months for me to get a response from them as to how much I should be paying each month.

 

I thought it should be the same as I had agreed to pay GE

 

Arrow were saying they needed to assess my account,

start from scratch with income and expenditure details etc...

 

I wish I had known then that I should have referred them to the original suspended order instead of playing ball with them.

 

The debt was purchased by Arrow in July 2016.

It took three months of wrangling with them to agree what my monthly figure should be.

 

I even sent back the blank DD mandate they issued with the figure I had previously agreed with GE.

 

I was just wondering if,

before I speak to them

(which will have to be tomorrow as our phone lines are down at the moment and the mobile reception here is terrible),

 

I should send them something in writing first,

setting out my repayment proposals together with supporting documentation to prove affordability.

 

I could mention that I have tried, and am trying to resolve this and if we cannot reach a reasonable agreement I will be applying to the court with a N244.

[dx100uk]

wht have you done with the money that would normally have been paid against this loan since last payment??

 

if you've still got it

then use bacs and send it to the fleecing DCA

then just do the same each month when its due.

you don't have to use DD

you can use a standing order

or do it yourself manually via your banks intererweb portal.

 

simply label it with arrows ref number

[Rachaelb]

I cannot make a full payment to cover all of the arrears but I can and will make payments to them via my bank.

 

However, in the meantime I do have the issue of their solicitors applying to the court to enforce the suspended possession order and they are requesting "an eviction date at the earliest opportunity".

 

Reading the link Andy sent (if I've understood it correctly?), it is not guaranteed that the court will decline their request so I need to do what I can to try and prevent a possible eviction.

 

Arrow are insisting I speak to them, they will not accept the proposals I have made in writing without speaking to me. So, I was thinking I should first write to them then following it up with a phone call to go over what I have said in the letter (the letter will include repayment proposals and supporting documentation)

[AndyOrch]

" Can I just ask that in the case of estoppel (in this matter were a Court as already determined payment and therefore that legally stands)does this still apply if I have missed payments this year? "

 

That is a valid point and shows you have a good understanding...you are not in breach of the original order...with the Original Claimant....Arrow have let it lapse by failing to agree and collect...but ultimately the responsibility lies with yourself as the debtor.....even though the substitute claimant are laying hurdles and frustrating you to prevent you from complying.

 

Simply ring them as soon as possible and explain the full picture...the original order etc etc....get it back on track and agree an affordable extra amount to settle any arrears...if they are still unwilling to agree you can only advise them that their behaviour in this matter will be brought to the courts attention...if and when any hearing date is set to consider their application.

[Ell-enn]

OK, this has all come about because you have missed monthly payments under the suspended order so whoever is managing the account is perfectly within their rights to enforce the order (provided they can get it re-instated). In order to make this go away you wither need to bring the arrears completely up to date, or write a letter - include a budget sheet - send by special next day delivery and then call them to go over what you have written. Normally when dealing with ordinary debts it's advisable not to talk to lenders on the phone, however this is the roof over your head we're dealing with here - much too serious an issue to dismiss all forms of negotiation.

[Rachaelb]

If I draft a letter and a budget sheet would you mind checking it over for me? Just in case there's something I need to add or remove?

[Ell-enn]

If I draft a letter and a budget sheet would you mind checking it over for me? Just in case there's something I need to add or remove?

 

 

No problem, happy to look it over.

[Rachaelb]

Many thanks! I have attached a letter drafted to Arrow - took me absolutely ages but I hope it's ok? It will be sent with an income and expenditure sheet plus a letter from my employers. Could you take a look and let me know what you think x

Arrow Global December 2017v1.pdf

[AndyOrch]

Rachael a couple of important points before you finalise your intended letter.....

 

An application for permission should be made by completing form N244.Evidence of the breach must be provided either in the body of the N244 or in a separate witness statement. The application can be made “without notice” to the Defendant and will incur a Court fee of £100.

 

Also have you received any statement from Arrow showing the Capital and Arrears outstanding ?

 

Andy

[Rachaelb]

Hi Andy,

 

Arrow, by instructing their solicitors Eversheds have made an application to the court for permission to enforce the suspended possession order. I uploaded the documents yesterday - is this what you mean?

 

On Evershed's N244 they only state the following wording in the evidence section:

 

“The claimant is seeking possession to enforce the suspended possession order dated 23rd November 2009 as the time for enforcement has expired.

 

"We took over conduct of this file in December 2017. The previous solicitors filed a summons of possession of land and a particular of claim. A hearing was listed for 23rd November 2009.

 

At the hearing on 23rd November, a suspended possession order was granted upon payment of the current monthly arrears plus £69.87 per month towards the arrears.

 

The reason for the delay in issuing the warrant of possession is because the claimant considers repossession as the last resort.

 

The Claimant wishes to enforce the order dated 23rd November 2009 in an attempt to keep costs to a minimum as opposed to issuing fresh proceedings, which will incur additional costs.

 

We therefore humbly request that the honorable court grants permission to the clamant to allow us to issue a warrant of possession to seek eviction without delay and at the earliest opportunity”

 

So, no specific details of my breach of the order in there but they have attached a statement of my account to the N244 showing payments and interest plus fees applied.

 

I have received a letter from Arrow showing the outstanding balance and the arrears balance on their latter dated 4th December advising me that have instructed their solicitors to ask the court to set a date to take possession of my property.

[Ell-enn]

Hi Rachel, I'm afraid your letter is much too long and detailed. They will simply not be interested in the information about your daughter's schooling or your university. That is the sort of detail you would put in a N244 statement for the judge to read.