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Arrow/eversheds trying to enforce 2009 suspended repo GE money

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I have (or had until recently) a secured loan with GE Money for just under £25k.

I had got into difficulty back in March 2015 with repayments and ended up going to court to stop repossession proceedings (which I did).

 

All had been going well and agreed repayments made until June this year when GE sold the debt to a company called Arrow.

No explanation given, just a letter stating they were exercising their right to transfer ownership of the debt.

 

So, GE advised me that Arrow would be in touch with my new account details etc. in due course.

Since I had been making the mothly repayments via electronic transfer (GE were being difficult about setting up a DD),

I tried to make July’s payment as normal but my account had been closed at GE.

 

Then at the end of July I received a letter from Arrow with my new account number but no details on the total debt they had now taken over or what the monthly repayments should be.

 

I wrote to them (I can send you a copy of my letter) on the 8th August asking for clarification on what my monthly repayments should be.

 

 

In the meantime, I completed a direct debt mandate and informed them that I assumed the repayments would be at the previous figure set by GE. No response was received and the direct debit to Arrow commenced on 1st October 2016 at the rate set by GE.

 

I then received a letter from Arrow this month stating I was over £2000 in arrears (!!) and they would be asking a representative from Excel Counselling Services to visit my home to discuss the debt and how I could propose to repay this.

 

The letter was worded in a non-threatening manner and no legal proceedings were motioned HOWEVER I have enormous warning bells going off in my head having read up on Excel and visited their website.

 

I received a letter from Excel today stating they will “visit my property unannounced” if I do not telephone the contact given on the letter to arrange a home visit. This in itself is scary, especially since it is half term and my daughter is at home this week. I do not want to expose her to this.

 

I really do not know how to proceed with this and would greatly appreciate some advice. I fear this is the start of eviction proceedings all over again and that Arrow are playing the softly softly approach before going for the jugular!

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Hello there.

 

I've merged your duplicate threads and flagged this one for the site team to see if someone can help. Please continue to post on this one. :)

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?470997-GE-Money-debt-sold-to-Arrow-now-being-hassled-for-arrears.-Please-help!&p=4961127#post4961127

 

HB

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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the fact that this debt has been sold speaks volumes.

 

REFUSE the debt collector visit

you are under NO LEGAL OBLIGATION to discuss anything with them

and it will cost you +£100 if they do come.

 

now that brings up an interesting point..

 

GE have sold this for a reason..

bet the debt is vastly inflated with all manners of PENALTY charges

like Arrears, letter, phone call. refused DD.

 

ALL of these are RECLAIMABLE

and so is all the various insurances they made you take out?

 

I would not pay arrows

and STAY OFF THAT PHONE.

 

arrows cant enforce any possession order

they are not the original creditor

I would also suspect this is now no longer a secured loan?

 

send GE money an SAR.

get ALL the statements

 

send arrows a CCA request.

 

pop up on the land registry site

and see if the charge against the house still shows

and whose name is against it.

 

when did you take this out?


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Hi and thank you so much for your response.

 

Checking the paperwork from GE it states the following:

"We are writing to inform you about a change in the ownership of your mortgage account.

..your mortgage will be transferred as part of a larger portfolio sale from GE Money Secured Loans Limited to Arrow Global Accounts Management Limited...

.Arrow will be responsible for the management and administration of your account, setting of interest rates and charges applicable to your mortgage"

 

The letter also states that:

"The transfer of your mortgage has been undertaken in accordance with the terms of your mortgage which contain a consent to transfer" I do not have the original terms so I cannot verify if this is the case. I assume it was in the small print.

 

Correspondence from Arrow states in the type of account that this is a "Secured Loan" and also that it is secured on my property.

 

I've not checked on the land registry yet - is this free to access?

 

So it appears that this very much is a secured loan on my property

so they can enforce repossession if they want to.

 

 

They clearly state that they hold:

" legal and beneficial title to my account"

and that the balance is now

"owed to Arrow...these changes do not affect the amount you owe"

 

The loan was originally taken out in August 2008 and the current balance stands at £25,939.98 with arrears of £2,812.75.

 

The thing I am most concerned about is although I have set up a DD with Arrow they are now chasing for these arrears so in fact they can choose to enforce repossession if these arrears are not cleared presumably at their will.

 

Reading the website for Excel it does not mention a fee, nor does Arrow's letter to me to say they have instructed Excel.

 

Having dealt with GE before this and their extremely aggressive approach to the arrears the only option for me was to go to court which I did and we reached an agreement on the day.

 

Before that day I had literally gone round in circles with GE, had visits from their "debt management" chap only to have them refuse any reasonable offer for repayment of the arrears.

 

I see this with Arrow going exactly the same way.

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never seen arrows get a secured loan

and never seen them go for repo.

 

they are debt buyers.

 

sar to GE money today

go get it in the post.

 

something smells badly


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Will do - is there a free land registry search? What do you mean when you say "something smells badly" that really worries me :(

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no theres no free search sadly.

 

as for the sale.

lets put it this way

 

why would a very big multi national company sell a £25k debt..

they could have taken you to court and crushed you easily...

urm...

 

so a 2008? £25k loan

today still has a balance of +"25k ..urm..

 

very smelly.

 

I might be wrong

I might be having a brain fade

but ive never heard of a secured loan of that size being sold to a DCA.


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Hi,

GE did take me to court and tried to enforce an eviction but the judge ruled in my favour.

 

The months prior to the court hearing consisted of me trying to make several offers to clear the arrears including one which fell short by only £250 of the actual arrears but each time they refused. It was always 100% arrears or we'll see you in court.

 

Also, GE sent one of their debt people round to my house several times to, in their words "try and understand my situation" but as soon as I realised it would make no difference to their intention to enforce the eviction I refused to speak to him or allow him into the house.

 

GE do not legally own the debt anymore so would making any request to them prove pointless?

 

I could request a copy of the paperwork pertaining to the small print stating they can legally transfer the debt.

I could ask Arrow for this too.

 

I could write to Arrow requesting a breakdown of the arrears but as it stands I am making payments by DD at the rate previously set by GE so it appears Arrow have decided to ignore this and chase for the full arrears amount.

 

What I want is:

 

To understand why Arrow are now chasing for the full arrears to be cleared when I am paying at the rate previously set by GE.

 

What the point of an Excel visit is and how much I will be charged for this (no charge is mentioned on the paperwork)

 

I just want to avoid the terrible stress of going round in circles with these people and to end up having to go to court AGAIN to prevent eviction proceedings.

The judge might not be so supportive this time.

 

Reading the Excel website it worryingly says in the client area that they can provide an assessment of the market value of the property.

 

This surely means that while the chap from Excel is discussing my financial situation, he is also providing Arrow with an idea of how much they can expect to gain (i.e. the full loan amount) if they do reinstate proceedings.

 

I really am at a loss as to what to do here.

 

Sorry, just one more thing:

If GE have sold the debt to Arrow (most likely for significantly less than the actual debt worth), then wouldn't it be in Arrow's remit to try and get the entire debt paid off (i.e. by eviction) at a massive profile to them?

 

Wouldn't it be in their best interests to be aggressive and the whole Excel thing and softly softly "we need to understand your financial situation" is just a smile screen for what will be an aggressive eviction proceedings?

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It would be in order for GE to sell a secured loan to Arrow and you would quite rightly expect Arrow to honour the arrangement you made with GE.

 

Rather than be defensive at this stage, i think you should make an appointment with Excel to visit and have a witness with you to make a record. Show the person from Excel any paperwork you have and explain to them that you had an arrangement with GE which was disrupted when GE sold the account to Arrow.

 

In the meantime send a formal complain in writing by recorded delivery to Arrow advising them of your unhappiness about the situation and lack of information being provided. Advise them that you will seek the assistance of the FOS, if they continue to act in the unprofessional way they have demonstrated so far.

 

What you don't want to do is dig your heels in and be defensive. Show them that you are being entirely reasonable at all stages and are looking to cooperate as much as you can, provided that they comply with agreements already made and comply fully with all law/rules that apply. If this ever gets to Court again, at least you can show a Judge that you done everything correctly.


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Excel will cost money


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I don't see why the OP should be charged anything and if they want to do so, then the OP should send a written complaint to Arrow now as a matter of urgency. I don't see why the OP should suffer any consequences as a result of GE selling the debt on.


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Hi,

last year I posted a thread about GE Money selling my secured loan to Arrow Global.

 

 

I have tried and failed to set up a suitable repayment plan and sent a letter to them two months ago detailing my concerns with the way they have handled my account and setting out my repayment offer.

I have heard nothing.

 

I then receive a letter from my mortgage provider today stating that Arrow Global have been in touch with them asking what my current mortgage balance is,

if there is an arrangement on my account

and if they have a possession order over my property.

 

 

They have responded to Arrow saying they will have to ask me for the information as they (Arrow) do not have acceptable authority.

My mortgage provider does have a possession order over my property

but I do have an arrangement in place,

it has been in place for the last three years and the arrears are nearly paid off.

 

Does anyone know why Arrow are asking for this information?

I feel really sick and very angry!!

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did you get that SAR done to GE and get all the statements and get reclaiming ALL the unlawful fees and pointless insurances?

 

did you go get a copy of your land registry file to see who has the old GE money charge if its there at all?

 

 

dx


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Hi,

I did not send a SAR to GE as Arrow said they had legally taken over the debt and sent me the original GE agreement stating GE could sell my debt

- I will dig the paperwork out and check this.

 

I will check the land registry file and see if it still says GE

but suspect it has been transferred to Arrow.

 

I'm not sure what the unlawful fees are?

I had no insurance with GE but was charged arrears management fees.

 

I am just concerned as to why Arrow would be wanting to know this information and have been in contact with my mortgage provider.

 

I'm thinking (and I could of course be wrong) that is was to make a case for repossession if I am in arrears with no payment plan in place.

 

I am concerned that they were asking for the total amount outstanding on my mortgage??? :(

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about time you started to trust what cag volunteers ask you to do.

an sar always goes to the ORIGINAL CREDITOR

nothing to do with arrows, nor wanting to see the agreement.

 

but to get all the statements and reclaim all these unlawful

arrears fees

letter fees

debt management fees

phone call fees

failed DD fees

late Fees.

 

there will be £1000's of them

even to the extent that that's probably why GE money sold the debt on.

I will suspect the charge is neither there now

or is showing as still in GE moneys name

as you'd had letters from land registry if arrows had applied to get it changed to their name.

 

who's your old capstone mortgage with now, engage?

 

you are still paying the mortgage

but not these fleecers I take it.

 

I've also merged your existing thread with your new one.

 

pop back to the top and read the whole thread from post 1 too please


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Hi,

thanks so much for this and yes you are right.

 

I will contact GE today with a SAR request.

 

Should I inform Arrow I am doing so?

Would it keep them off my back and give me some time to think?

 

My mortgage is with Acenden now and is two months away from being up to date with all arrears paid.

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I wouldnt worry too much about what arrows are upto

not your problem

and acendon are batting for you too.

 

can you check LR at all?

might be useful if you could?

 

and when was the last time GE/Arrows got anything from you?

payment or letter wise?


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I made a payment last month

- the amount I suggested in my repayment proposal which was the monthly figure I was paying GE plus £50 towards the arrears.

 

I sent a letter to Arrow a couple of months back regarding their handling of my account and setting out a repayment plan with my income and expenditure.

I've heard nothing from them.

 

If Arrow have legally purchased the debt then they have surely legal right to demand repayment in full?

 

I will check the land registry and get back to you

- would it be the case that the land registry would inform me if the charge had changed from GE to Arrow?

I have received nothing.

If it still stands at GE and not Arrow then what are the implications of that?

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the debt would not be secured

 

I suspect then

that as you've [blindly] sent them an I&E

something only a judge can demand

 

they've gone off to prove what you are saying

re your mortgage

and acenden have told them to go away off

none of their business

 

shame you kept paying them.

I bet 99% of the old GE debt is totally bogus fees.


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Oh god! I am an idiot!

I wasn't aware that I didn't have to provide them with an I&E :( :(

I am just waiting for the land registry info to come through

and have come across something interesting here from one of your site team members which I quote below:

 

“if a charge by way of legal mortgage/secured loan is not registered with the land registry it takes effect in equity.

This means it could be enforced by creditor against the debtor but if the debtor then subsequently took out a second charge which was registered, the second charge would take priority in the event that the house was sold or repossessed leaving the first charge vulnerable if the debt exceeds the proceeds of sale.

 

If the second charge was also not registered, that too would take effect in equity.

The rules on priority in equity are that the first in time prevails and so the first charge would take priority.”

 

Sorry to be a pain but I have the following questions:

 

I did not receive any notification from the land registry when I took out the GE Secured loan to reflect the charge on my property but it was there a few years ago when I had to check something else so is this something which automatically appears without notification? Does the lender notify the land registry?

 

If it is still showing as GE Money, as Arrow have purchased the debt but the land registry has not been updated to reflect the change

does this mean Arrow can still enforce the debt?

If it says secured on paper but not showing up on the land registry I mean.

 

If the rules in equity are that the first in time prevails as mentioned above

then could this mean that Arrow know this and have tried to contact Acenden to see what the state of my mortage is.

 

They have asked If it is in arrears and if there is an agreement in place

so could this be Arrow trying to find out how much is outstanding on my mortgage vs the equity to see if my debt to them would be covered by the equity if the house was repossessed by Acenden?

 

I ask this because Arrow sent someone round from Excel to “discuss my loan” last year.

I wasn’t at home but they left a letter asking me to contact them

– the address was very local i.e. 3 miles away and I found out they have an office near me.

 

Checking the Excel website at the time one of their “specialities” was house valuation while conducting interviews with the debtors!

Being local Excel would know the market value of my property.

In fact they have estate agents on either side of them selling properties in my area.

 

I am also amazed that Arrow would think my mortgage provider,

or any other secured loan company for that matter, would divulge any details to them!!

Is this not something I can complain about?

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AFAIK if a charge is not in the loans present owners name then it worthless and you can demand its removal by LR

 

https://repossessions.wordpress.com/2007/11/29/uk-land-registry-used-by-sub-prime-lenders-for-sham-claims/

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?467097-Welcome-secured-loans-charge-sold-to-Alpha-Prime-repo-received-bal-all-penalties-PPI-MIF-LIFE-PPI-or-IR-help&p=5054952#post5054952

 

don't think they can have any pull equity either.

 

excel are simply a waste of money to you

you don't need them

 

neither do you need to PAY for debt advice

its a spoof to simply run up a negative balance.

 

you need to know if the charge is in arrows name

 

http://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?477746-477746&p=5027969#post5027969


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Hi, just received the land registry details for my property (the website has been down) and unfortunately Arrow are listed there next to my mortgage providers Acenden :(

 

Given that Arrow have tried to obtain details of the current situation with my mortgage and that they are appearing on the registry, what are my next steps?

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I am really hoping someone can advise how best to proceed with Arrow Global seeking to enforce a repossession order on my home.

 

In July 2016, GE Money sold my secured loan of £25,494 to Arrow Global. Checking the land registry, this has been amended to reflect Arrows position and GE Money removed.

 

This year, due to changes in my working hours I have been experiencing financial difficulty and have fallen behind on my repayments. In recent months, I have sent letters to Arrow to update them on my situation. I set out a repayment proposal plan which detailed my commitment to repaying the debt over the remaining term with supporting documentation including a letter from my employers to confirm my upcoming increase to 100%FTE, together with an updated income and expenditure statement. I also requested if there were other options available to me such as a consolidation of the arrears to the original loan.

 

I had also requested why Arrow had sought to gain personal information from my mortgage providers on my account such as current mortgage figure, any arrears owed and if so, if an arrangement was in place. Rightly so, my mortgage provider refused Arrows request, stating they have no authority to request such information.

 

I also had a query regarding the debit of £60 to my account for a “Field Agency Visit” which I did not request and did not occur as charges such as these only serve to increase my debt to Arrow.

 

Arrows response was that they too had several queries regarding my account and requested I contact them to provide my income and expenditure (which I had already done!).

 

I admit that I should have contacted them in person sooner but to be honest, I have been going through a particularly stressful time at work and home and wish I had just called them because today I have received a letter from their solicitors Eversheds enclosing a notice of application to the court requesting permission to enforce the court order.

 

Within the letter was a copy of the N244 application notice to the court which said this:

 

“We are requesting permission for the clamant to enforce the suspended possession order dated 23rd November 2009 upon expiry of 6 years in accordance with CPR Rule 83.2(3).”

 

The evidence set out is as follows:

 

“The claimant is seeking possession to enforce the suspended possession order dated 23rd November 2009 as the time for enforcement has expired.

 

We took over conduct of this file in December 2017. The previous solicitors filed a summons of possession of land and a particular of claim. A hearing was listed for 23rd November 2009.

 

At the hearing on 23rd November, a suspended possession order was granted upon payment of the current monthly arrears plus £69.87 per month towards the arrears.

 

The reason for the delay in issuing the warrant of possession is because the claimant considers repossession as the last resort.

 

The Claimant wishes to enforce the order dated 23rd November 2009 in an attempt to keep costs to a minimum as opposed to issuing fresh proceedings, which will incur additional costs.

 

We therefore humbly request that the honorable court grants permission to the clamant to allow us to issue a warrant of possession to seek eviction without delay and at the earliest opportunity”

 

I called Arrow to discuss this and to see if there is anything I can do to prevent this from happening. Their response was I needed to complete another income and expenditure together with three month’s worth of wage slips and bank statements to support this. They would then send the fle to their management team who would consider my case within 7 working days.

 

I am sick to my stomach with worry. My thoughts are that they will just say “no” and I have no idea how to proceed. I am also really confused abut the wording of the statement from Eversheds.

 

I am up to date with my mortgage payments and have over £200,000 worth of equity in my home so to be repossessed for such a small proportion and a sale forced for well below what my house in worth is devastating to even consider.

 

Can someone please advise how I should proceed?

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Hi there, you can defend their application. How many months payments have you missed? I assume you did not miss any payments until after the 6 years had passed since the hearing in 2009 ? Try not to worry too much we can give you the help you need to defend any repossession attempts by Arrow.


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