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VCS ANPR PCN Claimform - overstay St Marys Gate, retail park, Sheffield **WON+COSTS**

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keep going

but with no proof the contract has annual payments..whose to say its still in force

 

if you look at other vcs/excel claimform threads..you'll see their claimants ws there and how people have countered them.

 

use the search CAG box of the top red toolbar

 

vcs excel claimant witness statement

 

or alike


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I have made this action plan could you have a look and tell me your thoughts please.

 

I am also concerned that I ignored all opportunities to appeal any guidance of what to say if they question this would be great please.

To take to court:WS.pdf

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let EB deal with the finer points

nice they've sent their a week before yours is due

EB should have real fun pulling it apart for your WS.

 

dx


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I have read your action plan, you are still misunderstanding the protocols of the POFA and also Beavis, whch has determined that £85 is not unconscionable. Now is £100 unconsionable? I wouldnt want to be the person challenging that unless i could guarantee to know how ther supreme court was thinking on that and I am not telepathic.

 

Doesnt matter about the person signing the claim form not being a ditector of the co as long as they are employed, dont get bogged down on things that are irrelevant or the rest of your evidence wont get listened to.

 

Pick up on their mistakes and use that to try and persuade the judge if they ahve got something importnat wrong then the rest of what they say is unreliable. It often comes down to whose story is preferred regardless of the truth or the correctness of law so make sure you have everything right and use the small points to create doubt about their version.

 

This means that when talking about sigange you dig out previous cases where it went in the defendants favour. Use the fact that the landlord has forced a system upon the parking co to consider cinema users and it doesnt matter that this was brought in after your event it is clear that the customer cant actually attend without breaching the made up rule so the contract was offered with the knowledge that it is impossible for the motorist to abide by it so an unfair contract.

 

As for ignoring all opportunities to appeal- well that cant be held against you and we have yet to see a case where the judge has brought this up. the same goes for who was driving, just say it wasnt you if that is the case and therefore force VCS to shwo they have sued the right person ( they havent as no keeper liability)

 

What will be hated is playing grandmothers footsteps with this matter by saying somehting like I an uncertain who was driving or it may ahve or may not have been me or whatever. State it wasnt you and the re is no obligation to name the driver, that is for VCS to know before they even ask for your keeper details if they arent using the POFA and they havent so a breach of the DPA/GDPR anyway regardless fo their claims on reasonable cause, again it might have been or probablywas isnt good enough and there is persuasive case history to support that ( VCS v Phillip, Liverpool CC dec 2016) and whio is suing you? they cant claim ignorance

Edited by honeybee13
Paras, typos

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Some great stuff in there Ericsbrother thank you. I fell asleep putting kids to bed tonight so I will get on it again tomorrow evening. Thanks x

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the proof of contarct mentioned above is somehting judges will take as read 50% of the time but the other 50% will demand to see the contract and if it is undated or open ended ask for proof of renewal. Cross your fingers on that but do raise the point that a contarct that is ended by notice by either party may well have been ended without some evidence it is still running and you want to see that proof.

 

you can repahrase it in your WS by saying the claimant has not produced any evidence to show a contract between themselves and the landowner etc. and you do not believe that there is a current agreement between them.

 

that puts the onus on then to furnish that proof

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Echoing some of EB's points - I think you may be placing too much focus on weak or irrelevant points, and certainly not focusing enough energy on your main strengths (their weaknesses). This is understandable when faced with a load of legal waffle that tries to sound convincing, and often does to the lesser informed. Their WS is a complete pile of rubbish though.

 

If I were you, in addition to any points about proof of authority and planning permission for signage, etc. I'd be using their points on "the defendant was aware of signage...etc", where they imply that the defendant is actually the driver, to differentiate between 'driver as defendant' and 'keeper as defendant' and which one applies to you - i.e. YOU WERE NOT THE DRIVER. Then point out that POFA is the relevant law in respect of transferring liability to the keeper in the event of a legitimate parking charge. The claimant, in their submissions, accepts that the defendant was not the driver, and confirms that they do not rely on POFA 2012 as the basis of holding the keeper liable. In the defendant's view, not only is this fatal to the claimant's case, but is likely to amount to a breach of GDPR, with potential damages due. In any event, the defendant is confused about the relevance of the 'law of agency' which the claimant relies solely upon for creating keeper liability - particularly as they have not supported it's relevance and suggested application within their submissions.

 

That's kind of the angle I'd be taking it. They completely skirt around the grounds for keeper liability. Get the importance of that clear in your mind and go to town on it - make them squirm. Focusing on points of little or no relevance just gives them scope to take the argument in a direction that suits them better then focusing on the need to demonstrate that you, as the keeper, are actually liable under relevant law.

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Yes assumption Keeper is Driver just by relying on Law of Agency and possibly justifying by reliance on some cases with no real relevance is a bit too vague


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When you get their WS if you could post that up it would be helpful for your defence.

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When you get their WS if you could post that up it would be helpful for your defence.

 

It's already up - on previous page, I think.

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I have read your action plan, you are still misunderstanding the protocols of the POFA and also Beavis, whch has determined that £85 is not unconscionable. Now is £100 unconsionable? I wouldnt want to be the person challenging that unless i could guarantee to know how ther supreme court was thinking on that and I am not telepathic.

 

Doesn't matter about the person signing the claim form not being a director of the co as long as they are employed, dont get bogged down on things that are irrelevant or the rest of your evidence wont get listened to. Ok I was going from another overstay thread in the exact same car park @Blind7383 in case ur wondering coz we lost..I’m 99% sure the contract is fake.

 

The judge said he was satisfied by the contract . When I raised serious concerns and the fact that it’s a photocopy . He got upset. He also said that if I had brought a copy of my research that was the companies house beta page he would have accepted the argument. I said I could show him right now on my laptop. He said I’ve made my ruling. ??

 

Pick up on their mistakes and use that to try and persuade the judge if they ahve got something importnat wrong then the rest of what they say is unreliable. It often comes down to whose story is preferred regardless of the truth or the correctness of law so make sure you have everything right and use the small points to create doubt about their version.

 

This means that when talking about sigange you dig out previous cases where it went in the defendants favour. Use the fact that the landlord has forced a system upon the parking co to consider cinema users and it doesnt matter that this was brought in after your event it is clear that the customer cant actually attend without breaching the made up rule so the contract was offered with the knowledge that it is impossible for the motorist to abide by it so an unfair contract.

I'm going to post the email that I have from the landlord. Can I have your thoughts on it please. I can't really say they have forced a system if I use the letter as evidence as it states "they have the system as a goodwill gesture"

 

As for ignoring all opportunities to appeal- well that cant be held against you and we have yet to see a case where the judge has brought this up. the same goes for who was driving, just say it wasnt you if that is the case and therefore force VCS to shwo they have sued the right person ( they havent as no keeper liability) Thanks

 

What will be hated is playing grandmothers footsteps with this matter by saying somehting like I an uncertain who was driving or it may ahve or may not have been me or whatever. State it wasnt you and the re is no obligation to name the driver, that is for VCS to know before they even ask for your keeper details if they arent using the POFA and they havent so a breach of the DPA/GDPR anyway regardless fo their claims on reasonable cause, again it might have been or probablywas isnt good enough and there is persuasive case history to support that ( VCS v Phillip, Liverpool CC dec 2016) and whio is suing you? they cant claim ignorance

Going to look this up now

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I asked the theatre for the number of Moor management as they said it is Moor management who deal with VCS. The Moor is an area of Sheffield where St Marys gate is. I asked for an email for evidence that theatre goers can now give their registration numbers so they can stay the full length of the show. This is what she sent. See upload.

 

 

Do you think it is worth using this or shall I just take a photo of the machine where people put in their reg details.

 

If I use this email (If you scroll down to the bottom of the email you can see the land owners is JSS (the same as in the contract they have supplied) i can't really then point out that there is also no evidence to suggest that the contract is still running can I?

 

I am aiming to get something together based on the advice I have been given and hope it makes sense. It is like being back at uni again writing essays. Only then I got help putting it together from the dyslexic tutor :|

 

I am very grateful for your time everyone on here.

Email.pdf

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no good you putting xxx ooo thru email ad etc

had to hide that email

you'll have to blank out as JPG then convert please we cant be seen to publish names without permission.

 

sorry DX

 

also, don't take that one case as you are going to lose too, that was judge lottery.


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Opps sorry. It looks like it s still there.

 

Thanks for the reassurance about the judge lottery.

This is what blind inboxed me Blind asked me to post it here.

 

Where do I find details of ( VCS v Phillip, Liverpool CC dec 2016) please?

When I search for it I can only find the case id and not the actual case.

I am also struggling to find examples of witness statement. :?:

 

Stand ur ground. Appeal if ur not happy with the outcome.

The contract is invalid.

I couldn’t find a ruling on presenting a valid contract in court.

That would be good if you do.

I was busy with family so was unprepared

 

The company JLL that signed off the contract on behalf of the “lawful occupant” at this point of time does not manage that property.

It’s not part of their portfolio.

 

Vcs paid the Scottish widows property trust money to manage the parking lot.

The signing authority was never a director of the company JLL.

 

Go to companies house company information.

Print the directors list.

That person is not on it.

 

I tried to find Scottish widows property trust but was unable to.

 

Find out who the leaseholder/landowner of 200 Eyre street from HM land registery is.

If it’s not Scottish widows property trust than this contract is invalid.

This info ought to be public knowledge but one needs to pay for it.

I didn’t have time and I was stupid to be over confident.

 

This is imperative.

If the owner is someone else than the contract is invalid.

If the owner is indeed Scottish widows than you can contact them and ask them aoubt their dealings with VCS.

Take the copy to court.

Don’t submit it with ur witness statement but on the day of hearing.

 

I would love to help you but I’m not sure if we can exchange numbers.

The judge should not accept a photocopy of the contract when originals are meant to be brought to court.

Write in the witness statement that you expect to see the original.

 

If you win this due to the fake contract than many of the people like me who lost can take vcs back to court and get our money back.

I really want to get these

 

i am gonna complain to Sheffield council that their adverts don’t follow rules of town and country act.(the judge said it’s not his problem but the councils) judge Wayne.

Good luck..

 

Does this count as the letter before action as I am pretty sure that they did not send me one?

 

I don't even need to look at the attachment.

 

NO!

 

 

Daft Recovery Pass can't do anything and can be completely ignored.

They're just paid to write you scary letters in the hope that you'll fall for it and pay up.

 

I've got a drawer full of them :wink:

Edited by dx100uk
merge/space

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i am gonna complain to Sheffield council that their adverts don’t follow rules of town and country act.(the judge said it’s not his problem but the councils) judge Wayne.

 

If you meant that they didn't have planning permission then it definitely was the Judge's problem. POFA is quite clear on this. In Schedule 4 5 [1]

Conditions that must be met for purposes of paragraph 4

5(1)The first condition is that the creditor—

(a)has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges;

 

If there is no pp from the Council then there is no right to enforce against the driver.

If there is no pp then VCS are in breach of the IPC Code of Conduct that states they must comply with the Law. As they have not done so in this case, they do not have the right to apply to the DVLA for keeper details.

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Just tagging Blind7383 as this was his/her message

i am gonna complain to Sheffield council that their adverts don’t follow rules of town and country act.(the judge said it’s not his problem but the councils) judge Wayne.

 

If you meant that they didn't have planning permission then it definitely was the Judge's problem. POFA is quite clear on this. In Schedule 4 5 [1]

Conditions that must be met for purposes of paragraph 4

5(1)The first condition is that the creditor—

(a)has the right to enforce against the driver of the vehicle the requirement to pay the unpaid parking charges;

 

If there is no pp from the Council then there is no right to enforce against the driver.

If there is no pp then VCS are in breach of the IPC Code of Conduct that states they must comply with the Law. As they have not done so in this case, they do not have the right to apply to the DVLA for keeper details.

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Tagging @Blind7383 Above

Just tagging Blind7383 as this was his/her message

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justice what are you doing please?

 

dx


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When is the WS due?

 

I'd be interested in seeing a concise list of arguments that you propose to include in it.

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Trying to put it together and struggling with the written element. I have said before i'm not the sharpest knife in the drawer and i'm dyslexic so writing is hard. I am determined to give it a shot though. Abit confused about what to include and leave out. I have been googling the cases they have referenced and trying to understand their relevance and also which cases are relevant to my defence. I will inbox you what I have so far. To embarrassed to post live as it is very rough.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Me too! I need to get it to the court before the 7th as in court 21st

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post it here also see the parking prnkster site

i'd not be using google

 

but use the limited to cag google search already here on CAG.

 

use the search CAG box of the top red toolbar

 

vcs excel witness statement.

 

dx


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Yes yes that’s what I meant. Not literally googling won’t be back till this evening now as got kids to deal with all day

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