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    • Future Comms issues. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/416504-future-comms-issues/
      • 3 replies
    • This is a bit of a lengthy one but I’ll summerise best as possible.
       
      THIS IS HOW THE PHONECALL WENT 
       
      I was contacted by future comms by phone, they stated that they could beat any phone contract I have , (I am a limited company but just myself that needs a business phone and I am the only worker) 
      I told future comms my deal, £110 per month with a phone and a virtual landline, they confirmed that they could beat that, £90 per month with a phone , virtual landline  they also confirmed they would pay Vodafone (previous provider) the termination fee. As I am in business, naturally I was open to making a deal. So we proceeded. 
      Future comms then revealed that the contract would be with PLAN.COM and the airtime would be provided by 02, I instantly told them that this would break the deal as I have poor 02 signal in the house where I live as my partner is on 02 and constantly complaining about bad signal
      the salesman assured me he would send a signal booster box out with the phone so I would have perfect signal.
      so far so good.....
      i then explained this is the only mobile phone I use for business and pleasure, so therefore I didn’t want any disconnection time in the slightest between the switchover from Vodafone to 02
      the salesman then confirmed that the existing phone would only be disconnected once the new phone was switched on.
      so far so good....
      • 14 replies
    • A shocking story of domestic and economic abuse compounded by @BarclaysUKHelp ‏ bank complicity – coming soon @A_Gentle_Woman. Read more at https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/415737-a-shocking-story-of-domestic-and-economic-abuse-compounded-by-barclaysukhelp-%E2%80%8F-bank-complicity-%E2%80%93-coming-soon-a_gentle_woman/
      • 0 replies
    • The FSA has announced large fines against DB UK Bank Limited (trading as DB Mortgages) - DeutscheBank and also against Redstone for their unfair treatment of their customers.
      Please see the links below for summaries and full details from the FSA website.
      It is now completely clear that any arrears charges which exceed actual administrative costs are unfair and therefore unlawful.
      Furthemore, irresponsible lending practices are also unfair and unlawful.
      Additionally there are other unfair practices including unarranged counsellor visits - even if they have been attempted.
      You are entitled to refuse counsellor visits and not incur any charges.
      Any charges for counsellor visits must not seek to make profits. The cost of the visits must be passed on to you at cost price.
      We are hearing stories of people being charged for counsellor visits for which there is no evidence that they were even attempted.
      It is clear that some mortgage lenders are trying to cheat you out of your money.
      You should ascertain how much has been taken from you and claim it back. The chances of winning are better than 90%. It is highly likely that the lender will attempt to avoid court action and offer you back your money.
      However, you should ensure that you receive a proper rate of interest and this means that you should be seeking at least restitutionary damages - which would be much higher than the statutory 8%.
      Furthermore, you should assess whether the paying of demands for unlawful excessive charges has also out you further into arrears and if this has caused you further penalties in terms of extra interest or any other prejudice. This should be claimed as well.
      If excessive unlawful charges have resulted in your credit file being affected, then you should take this into account also when working out exactly what you want by way of remedy from the lender.
      You should consult others on these forums when considering any offer.
      You must not make any complaint through the Ombudsman. your time will be wasted, you will wait up to 2 yrs and there will be a minimal 8% award of interest and no account will be taken of any other damage you have suffered.
      You must make your complaint through the County Court for a rapid and effective remedy.

      http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/Library/Communication/PR/2010/120.shtml
      http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/redstone.pdf
      http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pubs/final/db_uk.pdf
       
      http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/consumerinformation/firmnews/2011/db_mortgages.shtml
      Do you have a mortage arears claim to make? Then post your story on the forum here
      • 0 replies
Unemployed

Nationwide unaccepted insurance contract

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I had very bad experience with FOS at the adjudicator level AND ombudsman level:

the adjudicator appeared to have limited legal knowledge related to my complaint and sometimes even came across short of common sense.

 

The ombudsman made her decision on her obviously incorrect assumption which was absolutely false.

 

When I pointed it out a senior level for review,

FOS wrote to me saying her mistake was unimportant and thus upheld her decision.

 

I am now thinking to escalate my complaint to the highest level.

However, FOS services seemed unacceptable given that they should work for facts and justice.

.

Now I start to understand why banks these days are so keen to ask you to approach FOS once disputes arisen.

The services I have received from FOS was simply an insult to its name.

 

I will tell you how one of the biggest home insurance providers have dealt with me.

 

My lease-hold flat has been insured with it for many years.

 

In the policy renewal documents I received in 2012, 2011, and 2010, the covering letter states

'Please note, any changes to the policy wording are detailed overleaf'.

You turn the page around and It is a nearly blank page overleaf without any DETAILED changes, except the wording quoted as below:

 

CHANGES TO YOUR POLICY WORDING

These changes are effective from the renewal date of your policy.

In order to provide full information we enclose the leaflet entitled

"Your Home policy document changes"

 

The above quoted identical wording was certainly from the same template, appearing in all the renewal documents in 2010,2011,and 2012.

 

It is a common sense and an industrial practice that banks would have to highlight the important product information in their correspondence.

 

Plus, the covering letter itself clearly states that any changes will be detailed overleaf, where no detailed information was given.

 

As no document entitled 'Your Home policy document changes' was enclosed with other renewal documents or received separately in 2010,2011, and 2012, I was made genuinely to believe that my policy terms remain unchanged in 2010, 2011, and 2012.

 

In 2015, I had a claim for lease related dispute, which the insurer refused.

The insurer said that the cover to lease disputes had been removed since may 2010 according to the renewal documents it sent to me in May 2010.

Its allegation was totally untrue.

 

Given that my renewal documents was made under the same template in three years, I believe the template was very likely used to produce some of your renewal documents too.

 

Now,

can you please check if the quoted wording appears in your insurance renewal document for year 2010, 2011, and 2012?

If so, can you please let me know whether you have received the document ' Your Home policy document changes' attached to your renewal documents?

 

Please help me fight for consumer rights!

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Hello and welcome to CAG. I've moved your thread to the insurance forum for further comments.

 

Who is the insurer please?

 

My best, HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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FOS will not get into legal areas, they just say the situation is for the courts to decide not FOS - believe you me been there wrote the review & read it!

 

 

They are not fit for purpose!


:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:

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Write to head of claims with copies of the renewal documents showing that this important change to policy terms was never brought to your attention. Ask them to refer this to their head of compliance, as you believe under FCA ICOBS rules, they have failed to clearly communicate this change. It is important to you, because as a leaseholder, you wanted the protection of the legal cover and it was never brought to your attention that the cover terms were changed.

 

Ask them to register this as an official complaint for FOS purposes, so that if necessary it can be escalated to the FOS without delay.


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Unemployed, I see you posted on another thread that you had a problem with the ombudsman service.

 

Is this the same case please?

 

HB


Illegitimi non carborundum

 

 

 

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The FOS do not use the law much but they base their decisions on what is right and based on evidence supplied by both parties to the dispute.

 

Some people seem to think that once a decision has been made by the Ombudsman (not the adjudicator) then that is all avenues closed. This is not true. Anyone can reject the Ombudsmans decision and take court action which would be based on the law.

 

If an Ombudsman makes an error and you have the proof of this, any court claim shouldn't be an issue as the respondent in the claim will use the Ombudsmans decision as part of their defence


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FOS will not get into legal areas, they just say the situation is for the courts to decide not FOS - believe you me been there wrote the review & read it!

 

 

They are not fit for purpose!

 

I just wonder who pays these FOS adjudicators or ombudsmen. Or are they volunteers?

 

Apparently, FOS has the power. If FOS misuse its power or even abuse it, is there any independent organisation who can investigate a complaint about FOS?

 

Their services seem free of charges. However, when FOS fail to fulfill its obligation made to the public, the cost for consumers can be tremendous: loss of time, suffering from undue stress, damaging cost of opportunity (losing opportunity to win your dispute which is time sensitive )

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FOS = the levy

 

All businesses covered by the ombudsman service pay a levy to contribute to our costs. The amount of levy that each individual business has to pay can range from around £100 a year for a small firm of financial advisers to over £300,000 for a high-street bank or major insurance company.

 

Where a business has had no formal complaints referred to the ombudsman service, the levy is still payable. This is because all businesses benefit from the increased consumer confidence that the ombudsman brings.

 

And the ombudsman service's funding covers much more than our work settling cases. We carry out a wide range of complaints-prevention work, aimed at helping to stop problems turning into full-blown disputes.

 

The Government gives no money to them. another so called self regulated scheme run by businesses for businesses (umbrella)


:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:

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Hello SiverFox1961

 

I agree with you. However, we also need to look at the obligation or commitment FOS has made to the public, which FOS has to stand for. Plus, when you cannot afford to go to court, FOS becomes the only choice for the disadvantaged people to seek justice.

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The FOS are funded by the businesses complained about. If memory serves me right, Member of the finance industry make an annual payment to the FOS and that then gives them x amount of free adjudications. Once x has been reached, the company pay around £500 for each investigation.

 

If anyone is unhappy with the FOS

 

http://www.financial-ombudsman.org.uk/about/our-service-standards.htm


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FOS = the levy

 

All businesses covered by the ombudsman service pay a levy to contribute to our costs. The amount of levy that each individual business has to pay can range from around £100 a year for a small firm of financial advisers to over £300,000 for a high-street bank or major insurance company.

 

Where a business has had no formal complaints referred to the ombudsman service, the levy is still payable. This is because all businesses benefit from the increased consumer confidence that the ombudsman brings.

 

And the ombudsman service's funding covers much more than our work settling cases. We carry out a wide range of complaints-prevention work, aimed at helping to stop problems turning into full-blown disputes.

 

The Government gives no money to them. another so called self regulated scheme run by businesses for businesses (umbrella)

 

Hello Mr. Thank you for your clarification.

 

As per your explanation, FOS is paid by the levy, tax, or the public. May I understand FOS is kind of government funded organisation? no wonder FOS was so bureaucratic when it dealing with my complaint - They seemed to just cover up each other. A FOS senior officer confirmed his staff made mistake about the foundation on which FOS decision was based but still upheld the decision.

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Paid by businesses only/

 

as already stated:- The Government gives no money to them.


:mad2::-x:jaw::sad:

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Thank you, Mr. Uncle

 

As I have never received the alleged amendments, for numerous times, I asked the insurer to advise me how and when the amendments were sent to me and what the actual contents of the amendments were since September 2015. The insurer has never told me. They had never showed me copies of those alleged amendments.

 

Now, FOS

- my initial complaint was brought to FOS in April 2016 and I emailed all the renewal documents to them, in which the alleged amendment wasn't mentioned.

 

FOS advised me they had A FEW MONTHS AGO requested a copy of a document called 'Your Home insurance changes' , the insurer alleged to detail the amendment.

 

Till two weeks ago, FOS confirmed they were still waiting to receive the copy document and would made a decision in my favour if not receiving it by the end of 25/11/2016.

 

We all know that as per the laws, the insurer, one of the biggest, would have well archived the customers' document and would not have taken a few months to provide such an important document, if they really had.

 

Unbelievably, FOS yesterday wrote to me that they didn't support my complaint as they finally received its required document after a few months.

 

FOS didn't provide me with the copy of the document it received.

It is a mystery what the received document is like.

 

It only came across to me FOS worked for the insurer.

 

I am here asking some of you to help me to check your renewal documents to see whether you experience the same problems created by the insurer and help me to prove FOS failed to protect consumer rights

 

Unemployed, I see you posted on another thread that you had a problem with the ombudsman service.

 

Is this the same case please?

 

HB

 

Sorry for being late to get back to you.

 

I have had two FOS complaints, which are related to each other for a same issue.

 

Paid by businesses only/

 

as already stated:- The Government gives no money to them.

 

Wow, I should have known this earlier!

 

Thank you

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I have merged your posts from the large FOS thread here

so your story makes sense

 

 

please continue to use this thread


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Think you need to take your complaint further with the FOS and ask them for copies of what the Insurers have sent to them. There is no reason for them not to supply you with full information.

 

It is a bit odd that it has taken months for Insurers to supply the FOS with copy documents. Normally most Insurers compliance departments will keep copies of all ' important policy changes' type documents that are issued with renewals. There is usually a code in the bottom corner to reference the document. E.g Month/year/product code.

 

What you have to remember is that the FOS will favour the Insurers in most cases, if they can show that they had a process of sending out the relevant important information. They don't have to prove that they actually sent you the information within your renewal envelope. But if you have blank pages and no reference to any separate leaflet or document confirming the changes, then you might have a case.


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Thanks.

 

The renewal documents in 2010,2011, and 2012 were produced under the same template, bearing identical wording as below:

 

• The first page of the covering letter states “Please note, any changes to the policy wording are detailed overleaf”.

• Overleaf, the back of the first page was nearly blank with such wording printed:

CHANGES TO YOUR POLICY WORDING

These changes are effective from the renewal date of your policy. In order to provide full information we enclose the leaflet entitled "Your Home policy document changes"

 

As a consumer,

I didn’t see the detailed changes which should, if any, be indicated out overleaf as per the first page of the covering letter.

 

And I didn’t find an enclosed document entitled ‘Your Home policy document Changes’ or any another leaflet attached to the renewal documents.

 

Furthermore, I didn’t receive such a document afterwards.

 

I would by no means be aware of the alleged amendments claimed by the insurer retrospectively. For me it was the insurer's trick to unduly refuse my claims.

 

Once again, could anyone please check their renewal documents to make sure no similar traps would be applied to themselves?

 

Please check your renewal documents to make sure no similar traps.

 

I am sure that some of you out there must be victims of this trap.

 

It is only because this same issue was not a single occasion but repeated to me at the same mode many times in three consecutive years.

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Having thought about this, i think you might find it difficult proving Insurers did not communicate the policy change.

 

When the Insurers issue a renewal letter, it asks you to check all of the policy details and will refer you to any important information.

 

The blank pages you refer to about changes to your policy would have been specific to your individual policy e.g excess increased, security requirement. Because they were blank, there were no specific changes to your individual policy, but this does not mean no changes to the policy wording that applied to all policyholders.

 

The renewal letter might also have referred to an enclosed document about changes to the policy wording. This would have been a separate sheet acting as an amendment to the policy wording terms/conditions. This is the document you say you never received, but you cannot really prove that. The Insurers have sent this to the FOS and told them these were enclosed with every set of renewal documents sent out to policyholders. In any absence of proof to the contrary the FOS will see from the renewal letter that the Insurers referred to this document and if you never received it, would question why you never phoned the Insurers. The renewal letter did ask you to read all documents carefully and to phone the Insurers if you had any questions.

 

Ask the FOS for this missing document the Insurers say was sent to you.


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Thanks for your reply. I can clarify about two of your points:

 

1. The first page of the covering letter clearly says that any changes to the policy will be indicated overleaf.

Overleaf means the second page of the letter, i.e, the back of the first page, where no policy changes were detailed almost blank.

 

What you said, such as excess increase, price increase, or security requirements, or endorsements were indicated on the third page, and the fourth page of the renewal documents.

 

As you might know, the letter sent to me as renewal documents clearly specify how many pages the letter includes.

There were no missing pages in the renewal documents I have received from the insurer and sent to FOS.

.

2. In sense of law, I don't need to prove I didn't receive the amendment as it is a fact that there is no such an amendment as per the renewal documents I received and provided, which are self-explanatory.

 

It is the insurer's liabilities to prove that it had enclosed a leaflet entitled 'Your Home Insurance Changes' in those letter to me in 2010, 2011, and 2012 as the insurer alleged.

 

Apparently, those letters in three consecutive years were produced under the same templates with identical wording will only pinpoint the fact to anyone with common sense that the leaflet didn't exist.

 

I am an atheist but I hereby swear for my life and in my mother's name that I have never received such a document or leaflet called ' Your Home Insurance Changes' in six sets of renewal documents in those years.

.

To be honest, I feel extremely vulnerable when dealing with this insurance issue and going through rough handling and obvious unfairness, which has taken a lot from me at a daily basis.

 

I have struggled for more than one year with the insurer and FOS.

Before I come to this forum, I was naive to think FOS was a governmental organisation or something totally independent from those businesses and believe FOS would put things right if i try really hard.

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If you kept everything received for the renewal in 2010 in the envelope and there is nothing about the legal expenses leasehold issue exclusion, then go back to the FOS to ask for it to be looked at by the Ombudsman. Or have you been told by the FOS that you have reached the end of their process and they can't help you ?

 

I don't think this is something you can take to court, even if you had the money to do this. If the Insurers changed the contract in 2010, you have had more than 4 years to read the contract and had you done so, you could have looked at alternative Insurance for leasehold issues. I don't think there is much chance arguing about communication of this contract change.

 

Have you posted to CAG legal forums on the leasehold issues you have to see whether you can get help ?


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I believe we talk about defending our due consumer rights in this forum, right?

 

When the insurer, in may 2010, decided to change my policy and to remove the most important cover from my home insurance in 2010 given my home lease-held status, by law it should ensure I was so informed and allow me to arrange an alternative at the same time. The insurer certainly failed to fulfil its obligation and cause its customer profound loss.

 

The documents I received from the insurer in 2010, 2011, and 2012 never mentioned such an amendment to my policy. It was not the case that I failed to act accordingly after the insurer informed me duly of the amendment in May 2010. It was not the case that I failed to review the contracts I received in 2010, 2011,2012, and 2013 and failed to act accordingly.

 

The documents I received made me genuinely believe my policy remained unchanged in those years. Otherwise I would have found another insurer or pay more, to ensure my home covered against lease-related incidents in those years.

 

It was only September 2015 when I found out the amendment - during my claim made in 2015 against an lease-related incident happening in 2011, the insurer rejected my claim by citing the amendment it made in May 2010.

 

My case has not reached to the end of FOS process.

But I doubt FOS works for justice.

 

Currently the adjudicator allowed me to escalate my complaint to ombudsman level.

However, I had another case with FOS for the same insurance issue, which was decided by an ombudsman a few month ago.

 

The experience was even worse - that ombudsman never bothered to contact me to verify about facts and made her decision on her obviously incorrect assumption.

 

I complained to her senior management about her handling.

The senior management upheld her decision although accepted her assumption was wrong, branding it unimportant.

The incorrect assumption was literally used by the ombudsman as the foundation of her decision.

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No point just having a debate, as you need to be forensic when faced with these situations.

 

As you have not yet got to the end of the FOS process, there is still hope, but can you answer these questions.

 

Since the 2010 renewal, have you kept all renewal documents received ?

 

If so, did the Insurers send you a new policy wording with any of the renewals in 2011, 2012, 2013, 2014 ?

 

Have you ever sent the Insurers a Data Protection Subject Access Request for all data they hold ?

 

If you made such a request, you can ask them whether they had any specific data record showing that the insured property was leasehold ? If such a data record exists, then you can argue that it was reasonable to expect the Insurers to communicate the legal expenses leasehold exclusion clearly and not just in a separate document which you say was not enclosed. Had the renewal letter mentioned about important changes to legal cover for leasehold properties, you could have taken action.

 

When you make your case to the Ombudsman, you must be really clear and comprehensive, so they to consider it more carefully. At the moment you are not in a position to make the best case possible.


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Sorry, I didn't mean to debate. I greatly appreciate the information and knowledge you shared.

 

Yes, I have kept all the renewal documents received since the 2010 renewal.

 

No, The insurer didn't send me a new policy wording with any of the renewals in those years.

 

I have not send the Insurers a Data Protection Subject access request for all data they hold.

However, when I signed the policy with the insurer in 2009 in one of its branch, the business manager had asked whether my home was lease-held or free-held.

 

According to his explanation, disclosing this information was essential.

After he was aware my home was lease-held, he persuaded me to take up the legal assistance cover to protect my home against any lease-related disputes if arisen and necessary.

 

That was only why I entered into the insurance contract with them at the first place, including building, content, and legal fee assistance insurance.

I am sure and saw the relevant information was recorded by him during my appointment with him.

 

I did read through those renewal letters from the insurer each year when I received them,

nowhere indicating the legal expenses leasehold exclusion from 2009 to now.

 

Just before I posting the reply,

I had now a double check as all those letters are lying on my table

- No, no such exclusion terms had been specified in any of the letters.

 

Had it been so indicated, then I would have arranged a cover immediately and my lease-held home would not now have been out of the most important cover.

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Might be worth sending off subject access requests. What data is on Insurers systems ? What records are available from the Branch business manager who sold the policy ? You have to build a case, like you are an investigator.

 

In the renewals after 2010, have a look through to see how they notified you of any changes to the policy wording. If you see a separate document about policy changes, this would be similar to what you should have received in 2010. What happens with Insurance renewals is that they send documents confirming changes to policy wordings and if there are many changes they might decide to send a new policy wording.


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After more than one year, finally I have had a chance to look at the amendment which I received from a third authoritative party rather than the insurer.

 

The amendment document itself appears something the insurer was so desperate to fake.

Its wording doesn't serve its purpose, which has no mention to exclude the lease-related incidents! Its timing marks also conflicted with the letter dispatch day.

 

Now, any suggestion for an effective solution?

I am thinking flagging out this serious matter to FAC or Prudential Regulations Authority, would it work?

 

Hello Mr Uncle

 

Kindly refer to my last post, Any comments, please?

 

much obliged

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Can you scan up the document and post it on this thread.

 

The FCA don't look into individual complaints and therefore might not reply to you. It is the FOS that deal with complaints.

 

If the document sent is not what they would have sent originally, they should have said it was a reproduction of what they were sending at the time. If it did not actually amend the cover shown in your policy wording, then you should still enjoy the cover shown in the policy.


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