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    • Winemark the wine merchant ltd northern ireland
    • Hi Sweet and welcome to CAG   Are you willing to disclose the employer in this case ?
    • I was the manager of an off license. We reopened on mon 30th, I received a very large delivery which we weren’t expecting (and I wasn’t told about until 2hrs before by my line manager) all managers received a text from regional manager which stated when deliveries are coming in shops are to be closed. He didn’t ring this info in, I just read the text.   When I saw how big del was (completely covered the floor, could barely move around it) I kept my shutters closed and proceeded to pack delivery away. The store remained closed and we lost 5hrs trading time. I didn’t seek permission from manager to do this, with the current safety precautions enacted (only allowed 1 customer in at a time as manadated by HQ) I didn’t feel this could be safely achieved with 3 members of staff in and all the stock everywhere.  regional manger calls into shop at 4:50, hits roof that it’s closed and storms out of shop after exclaiming I didn’t have the authority to keep shop closed.   Fast forward 1 1/2 weeks later today regional manager comes in at 4pm with prepared questions, I answer truthfully stated I didn’t think it was safe I had the best interests of business at heart that I had turned up for work every day since this incident and nothing had been said. He said that they will examine this information and can come back for more evidence if needed.    He goes away again and at 5:59 (my shift finished at 6) he came back in saying they’d examined all the evidence and that their decision was dismissal, I was to gather my things and there’d be a letter in the post with information should I wish to appeal.  quite a shock.   I will see what this letter states as their reasons I committed gross misconduct, I am a bit at a loss as to what I specifically did to be deemed gross misconduct.   I’ve worked for them for 10years, taken 2 days off sick in that entire time and had a faultless record   I’m just flabbergasted they’d immediately sack me for something which happened in unprecedented times when all I was trying to do was keep myself and my staff safe and safely make their store presentable and adequately accessible for all.   Any thoughts on the above? Obviously this is all too fresh as it happened only hours ago 
    • Hi KL1 and welcome to CAG.   You say the buyer contacted you saying, "...... he had seen it cheaper somewhere else and wanted to cancel the sale."   Do you have this in writing and, if so, in what format ?   It would be useful if you could tell us more about the item you sold.    
    • I wanted to report a success against UKPS that started in Dec 2018 and was concluded today.  I did do a bit of reading through this site for guidance though so thanks for that!    in Dec 2018 a family member reversed onto a private road in Coventry and waited about 1 minute or so to collect their partner.  Meanwhile the owner was loitering and waiting to catch anyone on his land with photos.  2 photos were taken about 40 seconds apart.   With my help I disputed the charge stating that the driver had not "parked" but had only stopped momentarily to pick up a passenger.  I did not state at any point who the driver was.   UKPS from Leamington Spa were trying to enforce this and insisted on the charge of £60 + £100 being paid.  I sent a 2nd letter confirming the position of the 1st letter and that no further letters would be sent.   4 threatening letters were sent from Debt Recovery Plus and Zenith Collections and duly ignored.  The last kindly offered to settle for £136!    Then a letter from Gladstones Sols threatening the same was also sent, and mentioned Beavis vs Parking Eye.  This was also duly ignored.   Finally a Letter Before Action was sent by email.  Aha!  Game on.  They cited Vehicle Control Services Ltd v Nick Idle and Vehicle Control Services Limited v Damen Ward and that stopping for any time is a breach, and it was only the length of time stopped that may affect the value of the breach.   I said that signage said no PARKING, not no STOPPING and that appropriate case law was JOPSON v HOMEGUARD where the judge specifically said "Merely to stop a vehicle cannot be to park it"   They then came back at me with an evidence bundle they were allegedly going to use at court against me, stated the signage was clear,  a nd repeated their "no stopping" case   I came back at them with the same as before and added that, in their world, someone coming onto the land and wanting to read the signage would have precisely NO TIME AT ALL to so as, according to them, even stopping for mere seconds was a breach.  I also threatened that I would claim costs for my wasted time in dealing the case.   Today they emailed me as follows: ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Good Morning,   Thank you for your correspondence. We apologise for the delay in our response, however as no further action has taken place we trust you agree no prejudice has been suffered.   Please note that our Client has cancelled our instruction on this matter and the matter is considered closed.   No further action is warranted. Kind Regards ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------   16 months on and UKPS gave in  
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Bailiff Advice

Ombudsman decision on bailiff enforcement and vulnerability....LGO confirms that debtor must provide evidence in support

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Devon County County (16 017 119)

Decision date: 17th August 2017.

Published on the LGO website: 17th November 2017

 

Vulnerability and bailiff enforcement is a subject that is of great importance and sadly, it is a subject that is very much misunderstood.

 

The LGO have made a number of decisions regarding the 'definition' of vulnerability and the following case is another one where the LGO confirm that a 'vulnerable' debtor must provide evidence to demonstrate how their vulnerability affects their ability to deal with the debt.

 

PS: The following is a shortened copy of the decision. A full copy can be accessed from the link at the foot of the post.

 

Background:

 

 

(9) Mr B has received 5 penalty charge notices (PCN) for parking offences since 2014. A parking enforcement officer placed two on the car and Mr B received three through the post. On the telephone, Mr B told me that he did not take account of parking laws as he believes there is a law from the year 1600 that means he can’t be fined and so can park anywhere.

 

(16) The Council has said that Mr B first used the words’ vulnerable’ about his wife and him both having Blue Badges on 3 December 2015.

 

(17) The Council said it advised Mr B on 5 July to contact the bailiffs for them to consider his ‘vulnerability’ and for him to provide them with whatever evidence they need to confirm his status as vulnerable. The Council advised Mr B that if the bailiff did deem his to be a vulnerable household the Council would withdraw the warrant and cease activity.

 

(18) The Council said Mr B did not supply the bailiffs with supporting evidence. It has said the blue badge issued to Mr B, shows they have met the criteria of limited mobility to have a blue badge issued but may not necessarily be vulnerable.

 

(19) The Council says that Mr B thinks that his vulnerability means that he is exempt from paying these fines. The Council says it disagrees with Mr B’s interpretation. It considers he is still liable to pay these fines, but any vulnerability means the Council has to consider extra discretion over how these fines are paid, e.g. deferring payment periods, accepting lower instalments until debts paid.

 

(20) The Council has asked Mr B to provide supporting written evidence of his ‘vulnerability’ for it to find out if there are other conditions from which he suffers that may fit his interpretation of vulnerability, e.g. Mental health, depression, post- traumatic stress, at risk of self-harm, inability to understand and engage with the process. The Council says that if Mr B does meet any of these criteria, then it may withdraw the warrants and close the cases. Mr B has not provided supporting evidence.

 

Analysis from the Local Government Ombudsman:

 

(23) Mr B complained a business centre issued the warrants rather than a court and so were invalid. The TEC is the court appointed by the Secretary of State and the Department of Transport to deal with registration of debts arising from penalty charge notices. I can find no fault on this point.

 

(24) Mr B complains the bailiffs did not have the correct warrants. The Council has said the court sends the warrants electronically and so there are no paper copies. For completeness, I will ask the Council to send me its electronic records showing the warrants but I can see no evidence of fault on this point.

 

(25) Mr B believes that under the Taking Control of Goods National Standards 2010, (updated 2015) as soon as he told the bailiff company finds out he is vulnerable (with no explanation) they have to withdraw. He believes that he does not need to provide details of his details of his vulnerability; it is then the Council’s job to prove he isn’t.

 

(26) The Taking Control of Goods Regulations 2013, part 2, regulation 10 set out the circumstances in which an enforcement agent may not take control of goods. It says an enforcement agent may not take control of goods of a debtor where a child or vulnerable person is the only person present. The legislation does not give any further guidance about how a vulnerable person is defined.

 

(27) Mr B told the Council he was a vulnerable person. However, he has not explained why he considers he is vulnerable. He considers that it is the Council’s job to prove he is not.

 

(28) It cannot be right that a person can say they are vulnerable and all outstanding debts are written off without them giving further information. If this was the case, then there would be no way for the Council to enforce any debt collection as anybody could claim vulnerability without evidence. I do consider it reasonable for Mr B to explain why he considers himself to be vulnerable.

 

(29) In any case, a vulnerable person still has to pay the fines, but any vulnerability means the Council has to consider extra discretion over how the debtor pays the fines, e.g. deferring payment periods or accepting lower instalments. It should also allow the vulnerable person time to get help and advice.

 

(30) I have found no fault in the Council’s actions. The Council gave Mr B the opportunity to appeal the PCN’s and to appeal to the court. No further recovery action has been taken once he told the bailiffs and Council he is vulnerable. However, I do consider it reasonable for him to give details of his vulnerability if he wants the Council to consider removing the warrants.

 

http://www.lgo.org.uk/decisions/transport-and-highways/parking-and-other-penalties/16-017-119

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In addition to the above recent decision, the Local Government Ombudsman has released the following decisions regarding 'vulnerability' in the past 12 months.

 

 

Local Government Ombudsman (LGO) decision....Vulnerability ...Paying the council direct...Pro Rata distribution and more.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?477356-Local-Government-Ombudsman-(LGO)-decision....Vulnerability-...Paying-the-council-direct...Pro-Rata-distribution-and-more.

 

 

 

Local Government Ombudsman (LGO) decision....Being a single parent does not mean you are vulnerable.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?476570-Local-Government-Ombudsman-(LGO)-decision....Being-a-single-parent-does-not-mean-you-are-vulnerable.

 

 

 

Local Government Ombudsman (LGO) decision....Vulnerability and the need to provide evidence.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?472583-Local-Government-Ombudsman-(LGO)-decision....Vulnerability-and-the-need-to-provide-evidence.

 

 

 

Local Government Ombudsman (LGO) decision....Mental health and bailiff enforcement.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?472582-Local-Government-Ombudsman-(LGO)-decision....Mental-health-and-bailiff-enforcement.

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(9) Mr B has received 5 penalty charge notices (PCN) for parking offences since 2014. A parking enforcement officer placed two on the car and Mr B received three through the post. On the telephone, Mr B told me that he did not take account of parking laws as he believes there is a law from the year 1600 that means he can’t be fined and so can park anywhere.

 

:rofl:


 

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Not forgetting as well that Mr B also claims that the Traffic Enforcement Centre (who provide the authority to issue a warrant for parking related debts) is supposedly not a court and furthermore, that the warrants are 'invalid' because they are not in 'paper form'.

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Will you adjust your columns so they are more Than 1-2 words wide. It makes for hard reading. It starts in post #1 on background

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??

 

must be you bushy


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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