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    • Hi All, before I start I know there are similar threads of the topic I am raising, and each, of course, has its own unique scenario, which may benefit others. My case is as follows: 1. I saw a gumtree ad on the 16th of Oct 2020 for a Mercedes E220 CDI, priced at 7,500 2. I called the seller and said I will come over on the 17th of Oct 2020 to view. 3. On the 17th of Oct 2020 I went to his place where he is working and viewed the car. He is working for a major car rental company. I checked the car and of course asked the normal things to ask e.g. any insurance write-offs, loans, accidents, etc. The seller said the car is clean etc.no loan, he had a loan but all is paid off etc. and he has the papers. 4. I negotiated the car price to 6,800 because the rims were showing some signs of damage, the rear light had a small burst, cosmetics, etc. I checked all but did not see any sign of damage to the car (it's a black car, the car was a bit dirty, and the sun was already setting in) 5. We agreed on 6,800 and decided to purchase the car. We went into his office, where I paid cash, and also got a Car Sales Invoice with all details of the seller, and a V5C green slip 6. I purchased car insurance and drove off. I asked him about Road Tax and he said Road tax is paid so I have not to worry, just need car insurance. 7. On 18th of Oct 2020 I cleaned the car interior because it was really dirty inside - it took me a few hours so decided to clean the exterior the next day 8. On the 19th of Oct 2020 I went to clean the exterior and after the car was clean I noticed some parts were resprayed. I became a bit suspicious; so on the 19th of Oct 2020 in the eve, I went on the internet and run an HPI check. The outcome from the HPI did not show any accidents, insurance write-off but an outstanding Loan with Moneybarn. At this point, I thought maybe the database is not updated, etc. 9. On the 20th of Oct 2020, morning, things were going through my mind; the seller said the car is clean, no issues, no loan since he settled all etc. but the HPI reports say there is still some outstanding loan. So what I did, I called Moneybarn, and explained the situation, and gave them the contract number as well (since it was displayed on the HPI report). They said they will send me a form by email, but they cannot share any information due to Data Protection (GDPR). fair enough I thought, but what made me boil, they said they OWN the car! So, I took the car and drove to the seller where he is working. I confronted him. He said don't worry, I will handle it, he has no time, he is very busy and bla bla bla. I said what reasons do I have to trust you, you lied, and now you say you still have a debt, etc. So I said I will not leave until he has settled the debt, or repay me my money. I also asked what is outstanding, he said around 7,000. Well, since I confronted him at his workplace he may have felt the heat, he assured he will settle all soon, I said sorry, I need a date, so I said you will settle the debt with Moneybarn by 23 Oct 2020, if not, you will refund me my money. He said Ok he will do it, so I said, since I don't trust you, you will sign a piece of paper, and sign it. On the paper, he wrote "I will clear the debt for the Mercedes by Friday" and signed it. I said I am not happy and added the debt details with contract number, and also a clause that if he fails to settle the debt with Moneybarn by Friday the 23rd of Oct 2020, he will refund me my money, 6,800, and sales of the car Mercedes, license plate, will be void. Also, I said to put an initial on each amendment I made with signature. He did, and I left. 10. On 22 Oct I sent him a message, to remind him to settle the debt by Friday 23 Oct 2020 noontime and also I outlined some legal jargon I had to sent that I received from citizensadvice. 11. On 23 Oct, morning time, I received a message from the seller, he said he will not/cannot refund me the money, not to visit him at his office or place, and that he feels threatened by me. 12. Now, the dilemma/headache; a). I received the form from Moneybarn on the 20th of Oct 2020 and I have to send it back within 7 days b). the seller send me a message he will not refund the money c). is the seller holding the title with Moneybarn or did he also buy and not knowing there is an outstanding loan on it d). did he sent the V5C to DVLA since I have the green slip? e). Shall I fill in the form and sent it to Moneybarn? f). If Moneybarn has all my details they may send someone to repossess the car? 13. I decided, I will not undertake anything yet, because my mind said, go there, confront him, park the car in front of the company since I purchased it there and signed all paperwork in their office, they will call the police, the police will come and surely will not do anything but will force me to remove the car and park somewhere else, record all on camera, take all evidence, sent to Moneybarn and at the same time to the seller's employer (when I asked him to sign a letter he will settle the debt by Friday 23rd of Oct 2020, he used a paper of the car rental company, and on the back, the logo of the rental company is displayed clearly and he may have acted on behalf of the company to sell me the car, after all, I don't know if he holds the title with Moneybarn - well, this is an excuse for me to even sue the car rental company, or blacklist him with the company he is working for since it seems he is some type of manager there and he may have acted in the capacity as a sales person to sell the car to me on behalf the company....). 14. So on the 23rd of Oct 2020, I didn't do anything like described under 13....it's not my style as such I called AWH solicitors, explained all, and they said one person is specialized in dealing with such cases and will call me back after studying my case and inform me if it is something they can fight or not. So they will call me Monday the 26th of Oct 2020. I also said I want to go now and confront the seller, but she said better wait till Monday, and if they can fight the case, they will tell me the next course of action - but my funds are limited and cannot afford a lengthy battle, because if no case against Moneybarn means I will have to sue the seller to the court which will cost me. The car has comprehensive insurance and with all this saga I added on the 20th of Oct 2020 also legal insurance on top. Lengthy story, but I am trying to be as detailed as I can, and yes I should have done an HPI before buying the car, but I am from Holland and car sales work there a bit different, and this is my first time I buy from a private seller. Well, once I have sent the form to Moneybarn, I will park the car in a garage, and at this stage, I am renting a room in a house (there is one more tenant). Since I am from Holland, I am planning a trip within 2 weeks to visit my family and I will drive down with the car and in the meanwhile wait if the solicitor can be of any help. I need some advice though, I am still planning to drive down to the seller on Tuesday after I talked with the solicitor, park the car in front of the company, and confront the seller, and try to record all. I will also try to make him sign a letter that I purchased the car in good faith from him (regardless if he holds the title with Moneybarn or not but at least I purchased in good faith from him). Evidence that I have: 1. Car sales invoice 2. Paper that I made him sign 3. Gumtree ad; I could retract this from google history, but the original add removed from gumtree. At least I can show it was advertised 4. I tried to create a history of past owners, total owners including me are 5. It seems the car was also posted on gumtree before by a company in Essex (I saw on google). The reason for doing this, it is very likely that the seller purchased the car from someone else with an outstanding loan. Since then I read a lot on the internet, so please any advice is welcome to pursue my case, I paid a lot and at least I want my money back. Also what I read so far, Moneybarn is not easy to deal with...thanks in advance for any advice I can use for my case.
    • Hi   I think you need to check not just the serial number but what Meter Point Reference Number (MPRN) as the MPRN is what is registered and energy supplier go off as well as the serial number.   So you need to see what the MPRN is as well as the energy supplier it is registered with.   If you look at this Ofgem link: https://www.ofgem.gov.uk/consumers/household-gas-and-electricity-guide/connections-and-moving-home/who-my-gas-or-electricity-supplier   In the above link to do this check it gives a link to:   Find My Supplier: https://www.findmysupplier.energy/webapp/index.html (note you may have to complete a captcha, then input your postcode only and click find my address, when the list comes up click on your exact address, you will then see you actual MPRN and the energy supplier linked to your address)   With the above make sure and take the details of the MPRN and the Energy Supplier, better still take a screenshot/pdf the webpage.   Please let use know if on doing the above it matches your current supplier?  
    • I had exactly the same issues.   Grossly over estimated bills from January onwards.  Despite what they claim, they are effectively taking an interest free loan from their customer base to keep the company in business.   They can dress it up how they like.  It’s irrelevant if they reconcile the bills the following month because they just over bill again thus keeping a rolling interest free loan.   it took two months of constant badgering to be finally moved to a fixed DD.   Once that was done I didn’t care how much they over-estimated by.   I had raised a query with the ombudsman over the billing fiasco and they readied a complaint should I wish to proceed.   I thought everything was sorted until May/June whereby I was allegedly more in debt then I was expecting to the tune of an extra months DD.   On querying it, it transpired that even though I was on a fixed monthly DD, because the bill was generated less than 5 days before the DD was due to be taken they didn’t take the DD.   They offered £5 compensation by way of apology but wanted to take two months DD in June.  I told them where to get off.   With appalling customer service,  bills that you need a Maths degree to follow, and I do have one and still struggled, inability to follow through on any agreements, constant gross over-estimation, the missed DD was the final straw and I proceeded with complaint to ombudsman.   Prior to getting to that stage I had to quote Symbio’s own complaints procedure to them to get any sort of response.   Their final offer to me was £25 goodwill and to waive an exit fee. The offer was derisory given the time it had taken to get things sorted and the continuing ineptitude.  Also, the whole thing has dragged on so long (5 months) I was already in the final 49 days of my contract and therefore there were no exit fees to pay and therefore nothing to waive.   Anyway, upshot is, ombudsman found in my favour.  Ordered an apology and a goodwill payment. Symbio appealed but were told the decision stood.   This week I received the goodwill payment.   I promptly left an honest and truthful review on trustpilot.   The next morning I received an email from Symbio with an apology.   This was followed an hour later with an email from trustpilot saying Symbio had replied to the review.  On reading the response they have accused me of not following procedure and of cyber bullying.   The company is a complete joke.
    • why not simply tell you supplier they have the wrong meter number you been paying for usage , and ofcourse you can view this online too so its not as if you'll owe anything you might get a nice surprise and find you are owed a refund.
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Logbook loan by previous keeper - repossesion


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On 25th March 2016 I purchased a van to be used for my business.

 

I carried out an online HPI check before agreeing a deal which was clear of finance.

 

Unfortunately this was on my phone at the time and no longer have a trace of it as it was 20 months ago.

 

I paid £5000 cash and received the log book on the day of sale.

 

Today I had a note posted at my home address from a bailiff company.

 

On ringing their office they informed me they had attended to reposses the vehicle.

They told me to ring another company called Varooma to whom explained the situation and have now sent a new keeper questionnaire to them detailing the sale.

 

They have said that I will be liable to pay the debt owed or the van will still be repossessed

 

however at this stage have not told me what the amount is.

They said there will be a meeting with a manager tomorrow and they will then inform me.

 

Problem is this vehicle is my lively hood but will also affect the jobs of 3 other staff if this vehicle is taken away.

 

Any help or ideas would be appreciated.

 

I have also now got the Bill of sale registration number which I will check with the high court that it is valid.

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Log book loans or bill of sale loans have to be registered as finance. If you have done a hpi check and it didn't come to light then they have not registered the finance so I un enforceable and you will be covered by the hpi guarantee.

 

 

From another site.

 

Used car buyers can get protection from the HPI Check guarantee http://www.hpicheck.com Last night's episode of Watchdog highlights the issue of outstanding finance and the risks used car buyers face from unscrupulous sellers, warns HPI.

 

The BBC report featured a man who bought a Vauxhall Omega, which went missing. He called the police only to find it had been legally taken by the finance company and he had to pay £1,500 to get it back.

 

An investigation revealed the car had a Bill of Sale agreement (often called 'a logbook loan') registered against it, which meant it had been used as security for a loan leaving the buyer vulnerable to being left out of pocket.

 

'Logbook loans' are a type of finance often accessed by people that struggle to obtain finance through conventional channels. They are normally secured against a vehicle and have become increasingly popular over the last couple of years as the economy restricts the amount of lending available. The Watchdog feature raised awareness of an old law called the 'Bill of Sale', which was itself the topic of a Government review during 2010, the results of which lead to the trade body, the Consumer Credit Trade Association (CCTA) to introduce a Code of Practice offering consumers a range of additional benefits not previously available, including the requirement to register the loan with a company such as HPI.

 

However, Watchdog pointed out very forceflly that this requirement is not mandatory and some 'logbook lenders' still do not register such loans.

 

"In the wake of the recession there has been an increase in the number of logbook loan style finance agreements bring taken out, as people find it difficult to get traditional finance deals from the bank," says Nicola Johnson, Consumer Services Manager of HPI. "The two stories on Watchdog show the risks associated with buying a used car that is still on finance, particularly a Bill of Sale style agreement.

 

However, an HPI Check still offers buyers one of the best forms of protection from falling foul of this type of agreement. "HPI has access to a comprehensive list of outstanding finance deals, so the chances are that an HPI Check will uncover a logbook loan. We were the first to provide a check that categorises these agreements as 'Bill of Sale'.

 

If a customer conducts an HPI Check, follows HPI's buying guidance, but subsequently finds that the vehicle is subject to a 'Bill of Sale' agreement that was not flagged, the buyer will be protected by the HPI guarantee, which provides financial reimbursement of up to £30,000 (subject to terms and conditions, see http://www.hpicheck.com for details).

 

Johnson concludes, "Outstanding finance including logbook loans continues to be a major issue for used car buyers, but the HPI Check offers the best protection and is the most likely way to uncover a logbook loan prior to purchase."

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I appreciate the reply.

 

However I have no record of the HPI.

 

It was all good at the time and was deleted from my phone some time later.

 

I can't even remember the company I used.

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you sure it was a BAILIFF

I bet not.

 

simply a repo company.

 

They must have and show you the BOS.

They do not need a court order

 

Unless (very rare) the BOS is linked to an hp agreement

 

Your redress would be to claim from the seller or

 

Keep the car locked away and negotiate with the LBL co

 

where is the car kept?

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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Possibly yes just a repo co.

 

I'm expecting them at our workplace tomoro as they won't put the matter on hold. The van is has a different reg plate on it so hope this will sway them and although it needs to be at our premises for loading several times a day we will try and keep it away as much as possible until we can deal with the matter properly.

I still have contact details for the seller and have spoke to him on the phone today. He is apparently going to speak with the logbook loan company tomoro.

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please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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What is the situation if I have had several thousand pounds worth of work on the vehicle.

 

It is a hot and cold sandwich van and I have spent over £3000 on new ovens and fridges and inverters ECT.

 

Legally I own these so how does this affect the situation of a repossesion.

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you remove them.

 

where is the vehicle parked.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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It's taken home each day by a member of staff. It comes to our premises in the morning to be loaded and is then off on it's rounds. Comes back twice to reload for 10 mins then is taken home again at end of day by staff

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then its at risk whilst on the public road.

 

but as its on a differing reg plate

that could make things interesting.

 

theres no harm in calling the police into this if they do try something.

 

it will only delay things as its a civil matter

but it might well make the repo guy think twice.

 

some can be very reasonable esp if you have the evidence to hand

and show you are attempting [to in a way do LBL's job] in finding and chasing the original debtor.

esp again as this is now a business vehicle too.

 

i'm not aware you could take a LBL out against a business vehicle [go check]

see where i'm going here....

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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oh and you don't let the repo guy anywhere near the motor to check VIN or engine numbers or anything

they ARE NOT BAILIFFS

they have NO POWERS TO DO THAT

 

and have

ZERO LEGAL POWERS.

 

that's why I say involve the police if you have too.

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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If they HPI the vehicle with the new plate then it will bring up the original plate on the results and they will then know it's the same vehicle. I will see Whether seller rings loan co tomoro as he has stated he will.....and see what they say regarding moving forward

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But the company that did the search for you will.

 

Get busy on the phone and just ask them.

 

You will also have a record via your bank statement for the fee they charged so you will know who and when by that and that will get them scrambling for their tin hats if they got it wrong.

 

However, there is a trick that some people do,

they know you are interested and about to make a visit to view.

 

they then apply for instant credit from Varooma or whoever and by the time you buy the van they have got the loan so walk off with 2 lots of money and you owe the finance co 1 van..

 

Difference between a saturday morning and the afternoon.

 

Wont pop up on the HPI check untl monday afternoon.

 

I appreciate the reply.

 

However I have no record of the HPI.

 

It was all good at the time and was deleted from my phone some time later.

 

I can't even remember the company I used.

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Two options really, negotiate hard with Varooma to get as low a settlement figure as possible

 

Bring as much pressure as possible on the person who sold Varooma,s van

and issue claim against them for your losses, especially if they own a property or are in regular employment

 

As regards hpi, protection would depend on whether it was a full genuine hpi check

or just a cheaply imitation

PLEASE HELP US TO KEEP THIS SITE RUNNING

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Any help I am able to give is from my own experience only. Should you have any doubt you should contact a qualified professional.

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UPDATE

 

After pressuring the seller of the van on the phone it turns out he values his knee caps higher than his wallet.

 

He has paid the outstanding balance of £3874 to Varooma and the issue is now resolved.

 

One question I now have is

 

I've been told that for the past 18 months I have not been the owner of the vehicle as varooma owned it.

 

Would this has rendered my insurance cover void had I have had to make a claim?

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no

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

 

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

 

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

 

 

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Share on other sites
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