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HMRC arrears requesting us to payback £7k + 1500 penalty

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Hello I hope some one can help.

 

My husband today got letter from the HMRC stating that since he earns over 50k per year we have to pay back all the child benefit payments we have received since

2014.

He received form SA252 on 17 August 2013 (following incorrect 2012/2013 Self-Assessment – where didn’t tick the Child Benefit box!) whether receiving Child Benefit – clearly missed this.

 

Since that time there has been no communication and no letters etc have been sent to me his wife either, even though I get the payment.

 

The HMRC states that they sent letters on 15/9/17 and 23/10/17, which we did not receive, they now sent a letter stating they are going to charge us £1500 in penalties as we never replied to the letters we did not receive.

 

Apparently we need to pay back (on top of penalty of £1,517.82 by 6 December);

 

2014: £2351

2015: £2475

2016: £2549

 

Any ideas of what to do? Spent an hour on the phone to the HMRC, once they decide you are in the wrong you are in the wrong.

 

Help!

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first of all did you receive the amounts they claim were overpaid?

Are their calculations correct regarding income and amounts of benefit claimed and received.

 

What was hubbies income in 2011/2012 and 2012/13?

 

I cant see that if there has been no significant change in income

other than just enough to tip over the threshold of £50k

that the amounts are correct to start off with

did you get notice each year telling you what was going to be paid based upon these figures.

 

Ask for proof that the letters they say were sent out actually were

if they are cagey on this or say that we say we did therefore we did

ask your MP to get involved as HMRC are good at screwing up and then denying it.

 

They say they gave me £8k on year in CTB but didn't ask for nor receive a penny.

 

the next year they then sent a load of giros for the same amount and the asked for repayment when I hadn't cashed them.

 

In short they don't know if they actually sent the letters but as they wished they had that is the same to them.

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First question: did your husband send tax returns for the 14, 15 and 16 years?

 

(Thread moved to the HMRC forum as really this is more about tax than about benefits.)


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My husband is PAYE apart from one year when he did Self-Assessmemt (2012/13), which apparently he got wrong

- although he can't get his self assessment to confirm this.

 

The two triggers for yesterday's letters was the incorrect self assessment in 2012/13 and failure to complete a SA252 form in August 2013.

 

We are being asked to repay all child benefit for 2014, 2015 and 2016.

 

Having said the above.......

The HMRC now think he should do Self-Assessmemt

(becuase of the Child Benefit thing - which is why he might have a penalty)

however last year when he went through the the same process they told me he shouldn't self assess.

 

Because he/we are supposed to have seen letters in September and October that we didn't get (certainly didn't see) I can't be sure of this.

 

The missing letters should appear tomorrow or Saturday.

 

Can anyone help?

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goto the HMRC website and request their free SAR

that will get you everything they hold documentary wise

then go thru it with a fine toothed comb

 

make them prove they did things correctly re post 2.


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Hello Everyone,

 

I have requested SAR's for both me and my husband. I did that today.

 

I need to write to the HMRC as we have until the 6th of Dec to pay the fine.

We are not going to pay the fine as we did not receive the original letters we were unaware that there was as "issue".

Can someone tell me if I should Complain or appeal?

What has other people done?

 

Whom should I address my letter to and is it better to send letters rather than phoning?

 

I feel more secure when writing for some reason.

Can anyone give any advice as to how I should word things.

I have never written to the HMRC before.

To remind everyone it is regarding Child Benefit.

 

Cheers!

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not sure you need to do anything other than sar.


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the SAR should show whether they asked you to fill out a self assesment form for the relevant years and if not they cant fine you for not doing so. This is not a unique situation but they will never admit they are anything other than perfect.

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Not so good conversation with HMRC…..

by lottery I got one of the not so helpful ‘Computer says no’ call centre operatives.

 

Apparently according to new HMRC guidance (apparently on Gov.uk website)

the HMRC has to recover all debts in circa 12 months and therefore unless we agree to pay £710 per month under a payment plan then we don’t get a payment plan option at all.

 

If we can’t agree to a £710/month payment plan then interest will still accrue

(by the way our Child Benefit overpayment debt is now £7764.70 - not £7,375 because of daily interest)

and HMRC can’t guarantee that our debt will not go legal (or via a debt collection agency).

 

However we are encouraged to make regular payments as best we can!!

 

I did eventually make some progress and she agreed to go through our income/expenditure sheet,

which demonstrated (to her) that we have circa £500 disposable income

– which I said we could possible consider as repayment……

..but she then said no £710 or no debt repayment plan or nothing.

 

What should I do now?

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wont go legal, theres not much they can do

as for powerless dca's

bring 'em on

they are NOT BAILIFFS

and have ZERO LEGAL POWERS


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HMRC wont go legal????

I'm sorry I beg to differ

HMRC dont have to go to court to get orders as they are a government body. They have plenty of powers to recoup moneys owed if necessary

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that's what I mean

they don't do court..

so 'going legal' seems like a bit of a red herring designed more to frighten that anything else.

 

something smells here re post 4 and 8

as they've tried this before and it sort of went nowhere

 

don't think hmrc rally know what they are doing here

that sar will prove eitherway.


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HMRC go legal all the time.

They, being a government body dont have to do court for some enforcement methods.

 

Wether you think if they know or don't know what they are doing.

 

They do court for arrest warrants for tax evasion, VAT evasion.

They put charging orders on property

They can and do a multitude of enforcement methods.

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well I was trying to hint at p'haps not making people unnecessarily panic....:madgrin:

 

there appears to be mistakes here made by HMRC

and that they've been paye for most of the years too so other mistakes made.

 

the sar will be the key

 

yes the OP might well have not been entitled to Child Benefit over numerous periods and should have realised this

but equally the HMRC should as well.

 

mitigating the damage by pointing out and prove HMRC mistakes often realises a softer approach toward repayment and how hard they push


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Seems straightforward to me. SAR to HMRC to get hold of all records. On the basis that child tax benefit is not available to higher rate tax payers, the amount paid in error is repayable. Work out what can be afforded to repay per month, send HMRC office dealing with this, a letter explaining monthly payment amount affordable. Ask them how they want to receive payment.

 

Government now have a Real Time Information system in place and computer systems are getting increasingly joined up. They are working through all of the data looking for money to recover and I can see these cases increasing. Just search around online for info and see how many people are getting a dreaded brown envelopes through the door demanding money be repaid.


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Thank you unclebugaria67. That is a very good answer and makes sense to me. I did SAR the HMRC when I got the first letter but so far I have had no reply. We have done our expenditures and I will post that with a letter.

 

sgtbush, not very helpful and scaremongering, thank you.

 

DX100uk, that made sense to me as well thank you for your answers.

 

Merry Christmas.

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I'm not scaremongering.

If you want a sugar coated reply then take one.

For me id want the proper advice do forearmed is forewarned

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so do you have the result of the SAR and have you done the calculations regarding income for the relevant periods? If yu believe that HMRC are wildly wrong in every respect then you get your MP to take it up with the minister and then the govt ombudsman.

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Hi ericsbrother, I do not yet have the results from the SAR. When I receive them I will go through everything. I do not think the figures are far off to be honest. I will keep your advice is mind. Thank you.

 

sgtbush, again not very helpful.

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If you believe that your income was not enough to cause the claim for the tax credit to be that wrong

you really should have informed them after the 1st year so they could reassess.

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The HMRC have not responded to my SAR. Who do I report that too?

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when did you fill the online form out?

 

dx


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ring them up and ask


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Does anyone know, I have appealed to a letter dated from the HMRC the 14th December on the 23rd January. I received the letter from the HMRC after Christmas and in my mind I have replied within the 30 days when I appealed on the 23rd of January as I am unable to reply until I received the letter.

 

What is the legal standpoint on this? When should the 30 days start?

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