VCS No Stopping PCN - JLA Airport Liverpool - now BW letter letter of claim

[DeeBrad69]

Hi

 

I also received a PCN from VCS Ltd for stopping for 8 seconds on 28 May 17 to pick up my distraught Sister-In-Law at Liverpool Airport.

 

She didn't go to the pick up point as arranged but thought it better to start walking towards the main road.

 

I received the initial notice from VCS Ltd but ripped it up and binned it (so I don't know if it was within the 14 days timeframe).

 

I then ripped up and threw away their second letter.

 

The first letter from BW Legal came int he same envelope as a letter from VCS saying my account had been passed to their legal team.

 

The second on says its a 'FINAL NOTICE' saying their client has instructed them to commence County Court Proceedings against me for the recovery of the Balance.

 

I'm not quite sure what to do at this stage,

I have read through lots of the forum threads and am thinking of sending BW a letter telling them I am not paying and to leave me alone.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated

[DeeBrad69]

I have received a PCN from VCS Ltd for stopping for 8 seconds on 28 May 17 to pick up my distraught Sister-In-Law at Liverpool Airport.

 

She didn't go to the pick up point as arranged but thought it better to start walking towards the main road.

 

I received the initial notice from VCS Ltd but ripped it up and binned it (so I don't know if it was within the 14 days timeframe).

 

I then ripped up and threw away their second letter.

 

The first letter from BW Legal came in the same envelope as a letter from VCS saying my account had been passed to their legal team.

 

The second one says its a 'FINAL NOTICE' saying their client has instructed them to commence County Court Proceedings against me for the recovery of the Balance.

 

I'm not quite sure what to do at this stage,

I have read through lots of the forum threads and am thinking of sending BW a letter telling them I am not paying and to leave me alone.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

The following is a letter I'm thinking of sending to them, any thoughts anyone ????

 

 

Dear BW Legal

Re: Your Ref: VCS/TXXXXXXX

 

I write in response to your final notice which I take to be a letter before action dated 7th November 2017, the contents of which are noted.

 

As the pre action protocols expect us to exchange sufficient information to understand each other’s position please forward to myself the original parking charge notice and a picture of the signs at the location as well as the operators contract which allows them to operate at the site (or indeed confirmation they own the land in question).

 

As well as the information already requested please answer the following questions:-

 

1 Is this land part of the Airport as defined in the byelaws?

 

2 What type of car park is it?

 

3 What contravention gives a cause of action?

 

4 Who contravened your rules?

 

5 Who you are pursuing?

 

6 How is the £160 made up?

 

 

Not only will this information help comply with the pre action protocols it will also help achieve the overriding objective.

 

Having done some research on your claims I request that if you ignore my requests for information that your claim complies with

 

CPR 16

 

Contents of the claim form

16.2

(1) The claim form must –

(a) contain a concise statement of the nature of the claim

 

Contents of the particulars of claim

16.4

(1) Particulars of claim must include –

(a) a concise statement of the facts on which the claimant relies;

 

Practice direction 16

 

 

Other matters to be included in particulars of claim

 

 

7.5 Where a claim is based upon an agreement by conduct, the particulars of claim must specify the conduct relied on and state by whom, when and where the acts constituting the conduct were done.

 

 

Practice direction 22

 

 

Who may sign the statement of truth

3.1 In a statement of case, a response or an application notice, the statement of truth must be signed by

 

(2) the legal representative of the party or litigation friend.

 

 

3.7 Where a party is legally represented, the legal representative may sign the statement of truth on his behalf. The statement signed by the legal representative will refer to the client’s belief, not his own. In signing he must state the capacity in which he signs and the name of his firm where appropriate.

 

3.9 The individual who signs a statement of truth must print his full name clearly beneath his signature.

 

3.10 A legal representative who signs a statement of truth must sign in his own name and not that of his firm or employer.

 

Practice direction 7E

 

Signature

 

10 Any provision of the CPR which requires a document to be signed by any person is satisfied by that person entering their name on an online form.

 

I await your response.

 

Yours sincerely

D Bxxxx

[dx100uk]

no please don't send that twaddle

 

there are lots of VCS Liverpool airport threads here

have a read.

[ericsbrother]

BWL are like Gladdys, they send out generic letters and claims so they wont be able to fulfil the requirements of the new CPR's without spending some time and money on it.

 

As stopping is a made up breach of contract ( I was stopping to read the VCS sign will kill that one) and as you know the land is not "releavnt land" as defined by the POFA they have to jump through a lot of hoops to get anywhere. If yu read up on railway byelaws under the 2000 transpoty act you will get a better idea of the whys and wherefores.

 

With this in mind your letter may well be the last you ever hear about this but dont bank on it, VCS and BWL are greedy and stupid and may hope that despite your warning you might just cave in at the last moment. This means they send out N1 caims and then hope you dont defend, it then becomes normal for them to discontinue at the last knockings.

Edited November 14, 2017 by honeybee13
Paras

[DeeBrad69]

I have sent the two liner today as recommended. I have also completed the questions below:

 

1 Date of the infringement 28th May 2016

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] not sure I threw it in the bin

 

3 Date received I assume it was within the 14 days

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] n

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? y

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up you appeal]n

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

 

7 Who is the parking company? VCS Ltd

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Liverpool outside John Lennon Airport

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IPC

 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure,

please check HERE

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

1. Your account has been passed to our legal team 9/10/17

2. BW Legal 1st letter 9/10/17

3. BW Legal Final Notice 7/11/17

[silverfox1961]

Hi

There have been many cases where VCS and this particular airport have tried it on and as far as I am aware none of the cases were upheld (the ones that were fully defended) I can't tell you how many were successful where the respondent didn't attend.

 

How are you meant to know what the rules are unless you pause to read them.

 

Now VCS and BWL wear blinkers and will ignore all the cases where they have taken court action and lost. It's all a numbers game to them. The amount of people who will pay up just before court offsets the ones where they lose.

[DeeBrad69]

Hi I've now received a Letter of Claim enclosing a reply form and income & expenditure form. They do not acknowledge my two liner to them. Any help would be much appreciated.

[dx100uk]

Don't need the reply form nor the in/out

But scan the rest up to one multupage PDF

Read upload

[ericsbrother]

who sent the lbc, VCS or a solicitors?

It will be on the letterhead.

 

Reason I ask is

Letter of claim is a strange terminology and not used in CPR's where they are obliged to send a Letter Before Action

[dx100uk]

its now pre action protocol

 

letter of claim

[DeeBrad69]

Hi Letter of Claim attached.

Thanks

Letter Of Claim.pdf

[silverfox1961]

Well, I would look forward to the county claim forms where you would defend all of it.

 

The £60 debt recovery costs are not allowed so when the court papers arrive, the principle amount claimed should actually be £100, not the £160 claimed.

 

There are no estimated court costs. They are fixed. The £25 is the court fee and the solicitor costs are capped at £50 unless they get awarded unreasonable costs against you which of course you are not.

 

There is nothing you can tell BW Legal to stop this action. They simply will not listen.

 

All I can suggest is that you read up on different cases where a mistype had occurred.

[DeeBrad69]

So is there anything I do in the meantime, ie. complete the forms or reply? Thanks

[silverfox1961]

Ignore most of what I said previously. I wrote on the wrong thread.

 

As this land belongs to the airport, bylaws apply, not these made up charges by VCS. Be aware that some court claims have been in the name of Excel Parking (they are both the same company but separate entities when it comes to court) This would be struck out if brought up to the judge.

 

I know entrapment is not applicable in UK law but I use it to emphasise the fact that if you wish to find out the terms and conditions, you have to stop. All that is mentioned at the start of the private land is NO STOPPING. OK but then what do you need to know if you do stop?

 

BW Legal staff wear blinkers when it comes to these type of cases as once a legal letter appears, most people pay up meaning that it makes commercial sense to continue. It is only when matters actually go to court do they suffer from the jitters. They know that a good defence will sink them. You could write and put them on notice that you will defend any claim they choose to make but in all honesty, I feel it is a waste of paper and stamp.

 

Also, the fact that VCS are members of the IPC so don't follow POFA, they can only go against the driver. You are not obligated to name the driver. They go to court on the assumption that the driver is also the keeper but as anyone knows, anybody with their own insurance can drive your car with your permission so technically the driver could be anyone.

 

There are plenty of threads here about the underhand tactics used by VCS/Excel so have a good read and see what happens in those cases.

 

My advice (others may disagree) is to ignore anything but actual court papers issued by Northampton Bulk Centre.

[dx100uk]

its a letter of claim under the new PAP rules

 

you do NOT ignore it.

 

is the reply form blank

or have they entered details on it?

[DeeBrad69]

The reply form is blank

 

Would it be worth me writing to JLA directly disputing the claim?

[DragonFly1967]

Would it be worth me writing to JLA directly disputing the claim?

 

No, you'd be wasting a stamp. You'll just get a template reply from JLA saying that you need to contact VCS.

[dx100uk]

loads of time you've got 30 days

 

i'll knock something up over the next couple of days.

[DeeBrad69]

Thanks dx100uk, hubby keeps wanting to cave!

[dx100uk]

haha no..

 

simply tell him to go read the multitude of VCS/EXCEL JLS Liverpool airport threads here

 

they don't even own the land nor have a valid contract

as its got its own airport by laws

 

and there no such thing as a no stopping PCN anyway.

if you don't stop, you cant read their T&C signs...

 

these will be the simply things that will need to be placed on the PAP reply form.

 

dx

[ericsbrother]

as a primer to your letter writing

I should be letting them know that a sign saying "no stopping" is not an offer of a contract but a prohibition

so therefore there is no "offer and consideration" and then acceptance of a contract.

 

Their sign is the equivalent of me erecting a sign saying do not read this notice or you owe me £100 or just randomly sending out letters saying as you have opened this envelope you have agree to send me £100.

 

This also makes the demand a penalty as it is not a gernuine attempt to create terms but a unlawful penalty as the ony effect it could possibly have is that of deterrence.

 

Again this has been pointed out by judges so VCS and BWL know very well they are flying a kite and their only chance of getting money is to scare you into paying up.

 

this is just one of 4 fundamental flaws they have when chasing you,

the others have been touched upon,

 

namely broken down,

not "relevant land" as it is covered by byelaws that trump the VCS pretend contract anyway

and a lack of keeper liability as a result of this

and VCS's failure to employ people who can read and write.

 

When you do send your letter rebutting their claim

make sure you send a copy to Simon Renshaw-Smith at VCS as well as to BWL,

 

they both know the score but it would be wise to let them know that you know about them and their chicanery

and thus any claim would result in a full costs recovery order and a possible counterclaim for breach of the DPA for unlawful processing of your data.

 

They have had those before but again like to claim that you are wrong just because they know they are about to lose a grand over this rather than make £200

[silverfox1961]

I must apologise again for the ''ignore' option I mentioned. I was not up to date with the new Pre Action Protocols which now should be replied to.

 

ericsbrother and Dx have this about right. I would be stating that as VCS do not use POFA they cannot instruct a solicitor to chase the keeper on the assumption the driver is also the keeper.

[dx100uk]

The pap is not for defending as such

But will mirror the CPR we use

[ericsbrother]

post up what yopu intend to write and we will edit if necessary.

 

It is importnat you pen something yourself first so we can see if you understand what this is all about

rather than just using a cut and paste letter and then have to defend yourself later without having absorbed the important points.

[dx100uk]

it has been pointed out that PAP cannot apply to Parking Charge claims

so can be ignore

this is what applies

 

https://www.justice.gov.uk/courts/procedure-rules/civil/rules/pd_pre-action_conduct#6.1