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APCOA PCN - Northwick Park Hospital - staff only space

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https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?221029-APCOA-parking-ticket&p=5076144#post5076144

 

Hi kbcs6dpm,

 

May i know what's the outcome eventually?

 

I may have a very similar incident in Northwick Park Hospital and I'm receiving endless letter of demand.

 

Appreciate if anyone here could enlighten me please. Thank you.

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Dear all,

 

My car was issued with a "Notice To Keeper/Owner" letter for parking without displaying a valid parking permit,

2 months later for parking at Northwick Park Hospital near the A&E department.

 

The car has a valid parking permit purchased from APCOA Connects apps,

but it was parked on a staff only bay.

 

There was a sign for the bays stating parked car required valid staff permit but it is literally next to the visitor parking which I mistaken they are all visitor parking.

Ironically, the parking code displayed at the staffs only bay is also the same as visitor parking code.

 

The letter is below

 

===FRONT===

Notice is hereby served to the registered Keeper of vehicle registration mark xxxxxxx

===END===

 

===BACK===

A Parking Charge Notice was issued and attached to the above mentioned vehicle; however, we have not received payment within the specified time outlined on the Parking Charge Notice. Please note that the driver of the vehicle at the time of the specified period of parking detailed above is required to pay the parking charges in respect of the above; and these have not yet been paid in full.

 

As we do not know either the name of the driver or their curent serivceable address, we request that you either pay the full amount outstanding as noted above; or if you were not the driver of the vehicle at the specified period, provide us with the name of the driver and their current serviceable address and pass this notice onto them. If you have sold the vehicle, please provide us with the details of whom the vehicle was sold to as well as proof of sale.

 

If you are a Hire Company please provide the name and serviceable address for the Hirer along with a statement signed by or on behalf of your firm to the effect that at the material time the vehicle was hired to a named person under a hire agreement, a copy of the hire agreement and a copy of a statement of liability signed by the hirer under that hire agreement, within 28 days of the date of this letter given above.

 

As the Parking Charge Notice remains unpaid, the vehicle keeper data has been obtained from the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency (under Regulation 27 (1)(e) of the Road Vehicles (Registration and Licensing Regulation 2002). They have provided the details above as the registered keeper of the vehicle at the date and time of issue of the Parking Charge Notice. If you believe your data has been used/provided inappropriately, you can notify the DVLA by contracting 0300 790 6801.

 

A charge of £60.00 is payable and must be paid before the end of the period of 28 days beginning with the 'date of this notice' above.

===END===

 

I have not responded or paid the ticket. I don't think it's fair I should have to pay for their poorly labelled car park.

 

I have read other topics in this forum stating the best thing to do is to ignore them and their follow up letters. But i'm worried that this ticket is worded differently to the ones on other topics.

 

I'm also tempted just to pay the £10 so that I don't have to go through the stress and hassle of dealing with this, especially if it goes to court!

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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Hi,

 

I can confirm I've received a letter concerning parking charge notice. May I know what shoud I do next? Do I need to fill up anything?

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complete the link in post 3 please

then we have all we need to be able to properly advise you.

 

dx


..

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we need to know the DATES of the event, the date you got the notice to keeper and what you have got since and what you have done so far. there is a link on post 3 to a form to fill out that gives us the basics and you ahve not clicked on it

Hi,

 

I can confirm I've received a letter concerning parking charge notice. May I know what shoud I do next? Do I need to fill up anything?

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For a windscreen ticket (Notice To Driver) please answer the following questions.... [No windscreen ticket received]

 

 

1 The date of infringement? [22/05/2017]

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] [Y]

 

3. If you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted.

[Dear APCOA Parking,

Vehicle Registration: XXXX,

Reference:

I am contacting you to raise an appeal and make a formal complaint regarding having unjustly received a parking ticket as the parking signs were unclear. This happened on July 7th, 2017.

To explain in more detail On 22 May 2017 at 4:56 pm,

I visited Northwick Park Hospital, A&E department for a serious sprained back.

The parking spaces near A&E department are divided into staffs and public parking.

The first few parking area on the right-hand side, as you approaching the A&E department are dedicated to staffs and parking permit, bearing parking code 2221.

I remember seeing signage showing "staff only" and somewhat differentiable than the rest.

This is understandable because the first few parking area is nearer to the A&E department's entrance.

The subsequent parking spaces are identical and they are opened to the public, bearing the parking code 2222.

I remember on that particular day, the parking area was very occupied.

I literally drove in and out each parking area in search of empty parking space with unbearable pain in my back.

The middle section of the parking area were all occupied and as I approaching near to the end of the parking area, I actually spotted an empty parking space.

All these parking areas are literally next to one another with identical signage and parking instruction.

There is no evidence and no reason to suspect the parking space that I parked is any different from the middle section parking area.

I then walked to the parking signage and look for the parking code as I usually pay through "APCOA Connect" via the phone.

Eventually, as I walked into A&E department, I was paying the parking space with the parking code 2222 which was stated at the signage.

During my entire time in Northwick Park Hospital performing several examinations and X-Rays, I didn't fail to promptly renew the parking space when it comes to due. I actually paid £12.40 from 4:56 pm to 10:20 pm in 3 receipts altogether.

When I return to the parking space, there were neither PCN nor any ticket issued on the vehicle.

It is only after 2 months later, I received APCOA "Notice to Keeper/Owner" letter demanding a hefty £60 fine for parking without displaying a valid parking permit.

In the letter, it did mention "A Parking Charge Notice was issued and attached to the above mentioned vehicle..."

but I can rest assure this is not true because every time when I return to my vehicle,

I will walk around the vehicle ensuring there is no unexpected dent or scuffle before getting into the vehicle.

This is genuinely a deliberately misleading signage and information by the operator merely to fine the public for unlawful profit.

To resolve this issue I would like you to I just want APCOA to recognise this errors and waive all charges pertaining to this matter. Subsequently, rectify the misleading and poor signage simply because the public that uses these parking spaces are usually in a desperate situation especially in the A&E department.

I consider this a very serious issue which has caused me an unnecessary amount of aggravation. I would like a response within 3 days with a view to resolving this issue within 7 days. If these timescales are not met, I will have no hesitation in escalating my complaint.

Please reply to my resolver email account as I would like to keep all of my communications in my personalised complaints case file.

Yours faithfully,

***

I’ve lodge the appeal on 9 Nov 2017 via Resolver website after receiving numerous debts collector’s mails]

 

4. Has there been a response?

Please post it up as well, suitably redacted.

[Yes, APCOA replied as follow on 10 Nov 2017

Good morning,

Thank you for your email.

Unfortunately, appeals and enquires relating to a Parking Charge Notice cannot be accepted via our website, but should be made in writing to the address listed below, as per the instructions on the notice itself. (The notice number, vehicle registration, car park location & offence code as printed on the notice should all be included in your correspondence.) Please provide any evidence that is relevant to your appeal.

APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd, PO Box 222, Lowton Way, Hellaby, S98 1NX

Customer Service |

Kind Regards

APCOA Parking]

 

5. Have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days] what date is on it

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence?

[Yes, I received NTK on 4/10/2017 with black and white photographs]

 

6. Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] [N]

 

7. If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process? [it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

[i have read other topics in this forum stating the best thing to do is to ignore them and their follow up letters. Therefore this is my first official appeal after learning what resolver can help. ]

 

8. Who is the parking company?

[APCOA Parking]

 

9. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park?

[Northwick Park Hospital, Harrow. Car parking space near opposite A&E department]

 

For PNC's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

[No PNC’s. No ANPR Camera capture]

 

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure, please check HERE

[bPA]

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

[Numerous Debts Collector Mails]

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oh well

used the word FINE, it is NOT A FINE

 

using the word I did this and that

so you've identified yourself as the driver, bye bye your protection under pofa.

 

can you scan up the NTK both sides please

to ONE multipage PDF

read upload.


..

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you said you had not responded and then you print out a ream of stuff that appears to be 2 separate appeals

 

tell us, what is the truth?

If you did appeal or contact them in any way then give us the dates of your correspondece and what they said in response and what date that was received by you.

 

AS DX says,

you would have beaten this hands down if you hadn't said a word

 

now we need to see everything including

the sigange at the entrance to the hospital,

the sigange at the entrance to the car park

any signage where you were actually parked etc.

 

They have most likey got things wrong as you paid by app.

 

Even after coming here you appear to fire off another letter to a company that has nothing to do with parking appeals,

didnt you bother to investigate what terms of reference they have and who recognises them?

 

Almost everything you have written above does not correlate with other parts of your story

 

just tell us the where and when and the dates of all the correspondence

rather than the detail of what was said or any interpretation or mitigation

 

so none of the " I remember or I thought" ......dates and facts

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Hi ericsbrother,

 

Noted. Many thanks

 

Where: Northwick Park Hospital

When: 22 May 2017

 

Date of Correspondence

- 07 July 2017 Notice to Keeper/Owner Letter

 

- 13 July 2017 Emailed apcoa.com Parking VAT Receipts

 

- 13 July 2017 Apcoa replied following

"Unfortunately, parking charge notice queries cannot be made by the online website form.

 

Please call APCOA customer service: 03453011151 select option 1

Where a customer service agent can help you.

 

If you wish to contest this charge you will need to follow the appeals procedure on your parking charge notice. Please note appeals cannot be made by phone, however a customer service agent will be happy to advise you.

 

Kind regards,

APCOA Parking"

 

- 9 Nov 2017 Appeal through Resolver

 

- 10 Nov 2017 Apcoa replied as follow:

"Good morning,

 

Thank you for your email.

 

Unfortunately, appeals and enquires relating to a Parking Charge Notice cannot be accepted via our website, but should be made in writing to the address listed below, as per the instructions on the notice itself. (The notice number, vehicle registration, car park location & offence code as printed on the notice should all be included in your correspondence.) Please provide any evidence that is relevant to your appeal.

 

APCOA Parking (UK) Ltd, PO Box 222, Lowton Way, Hellaby, S98 1NX

Customer Service |

 

Kind Regards

APCOA Parking"

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then just forget appealing further,

you have nothing to gain from it and you may be able to use their incompetence against them at some future date.

 

pictures of signage please,

 

they are more important than anything APCOA have to say at this stage

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Hi ndrewey-it is a pity you did not find our Forum earlier-that would have made things easier for you-but we are where we are and all is not lost.

 

You said that you received black and white photographs along with the NTK.

Did they show a parking ticket on your windscreen?

You also said on post 2 that you were tempted to pay the £10 charge-did you mean £100 which would be far more likely.

 

By writing to them in the way that you did, you have identified yourself as the driver which had you not done so would have probably been enough on its own to get you out of paying anything.

 

Especially as they did not mention POFA.

All their letters written to you would have been as the registered keeper who is not necessarily the driver and in Court they cannot assume that the driver and keeper are the same person.

 

However there are many other reasons why there alleged contract with you can fail which is why we are asking for a picture of your NTK and the signage of all the notices at Northwick park especially on entering.

 

From memory it is quite a large complicated carpark [my son was born there-but many years before Parking companies were used]

you may also need to show how the signs are laid out in connection with each other.

 

It may be difficult after these several past months but it may help if you can remember if the signs now are in different places to where they are now.

Please pay special attention to the 2221 and 2222 codes on their notices to see how the wording differs.

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Date of NTK versus date of alleged infringement..... that’s well out of time.... if you had no windscreen ticket they had 14 days....

 

Toilet paper.

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but the OP responded so POFA not his friend. All down to contract law now.

Date of NTK versus date of alleged infringement..... that’s well out of time.... if you had no windscreen ticket they had 14 days....

 

Toilet paper.

 

you have shown us a picture of 1 sign on a pole that has 3 signs. We need to see everything and a legible version at that. This is not the offer of a contract but the sign above it that we can see a very small bit of probably is

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