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    • 4 th time we've merged your threads  for complete history of your story please keeps to one thread
    • @dx100uk @ anyone else interested in Fighting HSBC UK  Staff/department non compliance and incompetence/interference in between HSBC UK and customers.   I wanted to know what you guys had to say about the reply i got from HSBC UK today.    Recap. I originally turned to HSBC UK to be reunited with Money i saved in accounts that where frozen and made dormant during the year 1995.   HSBC UK Teams tell me that HSBC UK only allows them to have access to account records dated back 6 years. there for they do not have the records, can not locate the records i requested for in my SAR. there for HSBC UK teams Ignored my SAR application for records of accounts made frozen and dormant during the year 1995. HSBC then claim if the accounts where closed they will no longer hold records of these accounts and tell that to the ICO. I again explained to HSBC UK and the ICO the records of accounts where left frozen and dormant.   HSBC UK teams continue to tell me over the phone that The records i requested for in my SAR, will not be located or do not exist because HSBC only allows them to have access to records of accounts dated back 6 years.    I returned to HSBC highlighting there is no such provision in the Data Protection Act.   HSBC UK teams today totally ignored my complaint again and confirmed with me they are classing my complaint as wanting to locate accounts that where closed.   Let me know what you think about the  HSBC UK teams response to my last complaint. Is there any other letters i can send them to confirm thay are not correct about what they have done.    The HSBC UK letter starts of by:You've been unable to recover funds you held in HSBC UK Accounts that were closed in 1994 to 1995, and to obtain the account details for the accounts concerned. You've been advised that we only retain records for up to 6 years, but you've been unable to locate any provision for this within the Data Protection Act (DPA). You require a Certificate of Destruction from HSBC UK to evidence the destruction of the data concerned. You feel your Subject Access Request (SAR) has been ignored by HSBC UK.   HSBC UK Teams now go on to explain: In respect of you being advised we only retain records for up to 6 years, but having been unable to locate any  provision for this within the Data Protection Act (DPA), I can confirm that under the DPA, we are obliged to only keep records for as long as we deem necessary, in order to effectively manage our data. So, for most cases, this will be for no more than 6 years.   In regards to your request for a Certificate of Destruction from HSBC UK to evidence the destruction of the data concerned, I regret that this isn't something that we can provide, as we don't keep records of when individual customer data was destroyed. I'd also like to clarify that if the accounts concerned were closed after becoming dormant, that we would have sent you closing statements at the time.   Lastly, I'm sorry you feel we've ignored your SAR. I want to assure you that we'll always look to accommodate a request for a SAR as best as we can. However, if we're unable to locate the account details and information required, this will mean we're unable to fulfil the request, which has unfortunately been the case on this occasion.   How else do you think i can highlight to HSBC that the teams dealing with My complaint, and request to be reunited with my money is not going to departments that can deal with my demand for services.?  
    • Hi   I have to agree if you have paid off the debt owed to them via this meter and are up to date on your bills  I would look at changing supplier and as said asking new supplier to install a standard meter and look for the best deals for you.
    • I have severe anxiety and going to leave my job and have been invited to a meeting but dont wish to attend that is three hours away from where I am. Can I legally give the  permission to decide without my being there? I cannot handle going as I know I'm going to be fired anyway as on my final warning. I'm also giving in my notice this week too! This job is just too much for me now and I cannot work here any longer. It's no good for my health and sanity  I am sick to my stomach thinking about going and about to hand my notice in anyway    
    • Thankyou it’s because I’m awaiting the outcome and a friend said I will be turned down as I asked them a while back if I had ppi on the account and how much it was and they replied.  But they did only send me a short confirmation with the amount and that they trust that answers my enquiry. i just wanted to be prepared if they wouldn’t turn me down based on that. Thanks for your advice on that mate 
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Betty55

PRA Claimform - old MBNA Credit card debt ***Claim Dismissed***

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Thank you Shamrock.

 

think I will need to start again with it really as most of it now seems irrelevant.

Would the court allow me to submit late or is the deadline set in stone?

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No, don't start again. Just add in a new p.10 to argue that the agreement is not properly executed in accordance with s.61(1). The consequences of such breach are contained in s.65(1), but the court is prevented from enforcing an improperly executed agreement due to s.127(3).

 

s.127(3) was repealed in April 2007, so agreements entered into after this date don't benefit from it. Your agreement is pre-2007, so it applies to you.

 

I'm really busy so am struggling to help too much, but the above points should offer you something quite strong if you can put it into words.

 

If you have any questions, please post them up as quickly as you can so that Andy and DX can have a chance to offer input before it is too late. Time is of the essence.

 

P.S. Obviously, you have to state why the agreement does not comply.

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Thank you Shamrock I really appreciate your help and know you are all busy

It’s my own fault I’m in this position as I wasted my time on the wrong things.

 

I will fix it the best I can and either way will have to post the thing tomorrow otherwise it’s over anyway.

I’ve come this far might as well carry on

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Sometime in early August, date TBC.

 

I just have to get my WS in the post tomorrow to arrive by Monday.

Hopefully by August my obsession with footnotes in documents will have passed

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Is Monday the deadline for serving your WS?

There'll be postal collections on Saturday too, so 'should' still get there by Monday if you post on Saturday morning.

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Yes due Monday but I'm not sure that there is guaranteed next day delivery if you post on Saturdays.

The directions were very clear that the WS had to be provided to the court an the other party by 4pm Monday.

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Add the points suggested by Shamrocker in his post Betty..the rest will suffice..it can be tweaked further after submission by way of a supplemental WS assuming the claimant serves you theirs.

 

It will be okay.

 

 

Andy


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Thanks Andy I will add those points and refer to those cases. Just reading Carey. Not as exciting as a Jack Reacher book that's for sure

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Don't read it too deeply, as you'll be wasting time.

Look for the bits that refer to s.61(1) and s.127(3), and how ALL prescribed terms need to be present within one document, in prescribed form, signed by the debtor.

 

Here's an example from the Wilson case...

 

with the requirement under section 61 that all the terms should be in a single document, and backed up by the provisions of section 127 (3),

ensure that these core terms are expressly set out in the agreement itself:

they cannot be orally agreed;

they cannot be found in another document;

they cannot be implied;

and above all they cannot be in the slightest mis-stated.

As a matter of policy, the lender is denied any room for manoeuvre in respect of them."

 

There are snippets within Carey that you can use too.

I can't remember the paragraphs off hand, but you'll find them if you skim over it.

 

Bear in mind that Carey refers to a case whereby debtors took the creditor to court to contest their credit agreements, due to the original not being provided subject to a s.77/78 request.

 

The outcome set the criteria for what the creditor can provide in order to satisfy their obligations in this respect

- it enabled them to provide a reconstituted agreement rather than the the original signed document.

 

 

However,

the judge does point out that it is a matter for the debtor as to whether they accept this and continue making repayments, or not.

The risk of not continuing with payments is that the original agreement may be located in the future.

 

The context of Carey,

is if you (the debtor) went to court to challenge an agreement,

the court will expect you to make a positive assertion that the agreement was improperly executed,

which is almost impossible without the original.

 

If a creditor takes you to court,

they must also evidence a properly executed agreement.....

 

However, I myself have been stung whereby a skilled barrister acting for PRA made the argument that Carey also compels me (the defendant & debtor) to make a positive assertion that the agreement was improperly executed.

If only I had that time over again, eh!

 

Hope the above helps.

 

It may be to your benefit to state that the 'agreement' they have disclosed is indeed what you completed, but it did not contain any other terms and conditions as part of the application.

 

If the Claimant contends that T&Cs were present, then they need to supply them as part of 'one document', that is signed by yourself.

 

In any event, you have never been given a set of T&Cs like those disclosed.

These T&Cs are not part of a single document and is also missing some terms, which are also referred to in the DN.

 

You'll need to use Carey to explain what is meant by a single document.

 

Maybe Andy can comment on whether the above is wise.

Edited by dx100uk
format

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You dont really need to go into detail...once you make the contention thats it fails or is devoid of the prescribed terms and therefore unenforceable...leave it to the claimant to work out which parts fail and which prescribed terms are missing...dont pinpoint them and assist the claimant...its their claim..let them work for it.


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Thank you Shamrocker & Andy

I will make sure to mention these cases and I suppose once introduced can be expanded on in any future WS or in the hearing

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Hi all

I have received a WS from claimant.

 

I had argued in my WS that they had not provided a proper CCA as not all the prescribed T&C were present.

 

I’ve attached what they have sent as claiming to be the CCA and would appreciate any thoughts?

 

Hope this is ok, but I think the 1st page is on twice

New Document.pdf

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Would really appreciate any opinions on the credit agreement provided by the claimant.

 

The first 5 pages were initially provided but the T&Cs were missing conditions 1&2.

Along with their WS they have now provided the last 2 pages which they say are a copy of the reconstituted copy of the agreement.

 

Apart from the first page, the application form, it all looks like a mishmash to me. Conditions 1&2 are on what looks like the front of an envelope and text so small I can barely read it with a magnifying glass.

 

I know that post Carey reconstituted agreements are acceptable but this agreement was 2002

 

I also wanted to see if anyone has any experience with comparing figures on DNs with NOSIA and statements.

 

The DN the claimant provided is dated 04/02/13 and states that £1555.00 must be paid by 23/02/13 to remedy breach.

 

I got a NOSIA dated 08/02/13 saying total due £671.40 and total areas £1891.00.

 

I also got a statement dated 08/02/13 asking for minimum payment of £2,230 by 24/02/13.

 

I don’t understand why the figures are all so different?

New Document(2).pdf

Edited by dx100uk
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Its all covered in Shammys post #186 Betty...and you can also now add its illegible...another reason why its invalid.

 

BTW its not a reconstituted version as stated in the SWS..its the original application with some copy/cut and paste T&Cs

 

What date is your hearing for this ?

 

 

Andy


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Thanks Andy

I have no idea what the CA is supposed to look like only it seems the T&Cs are a mess

 

I know 100% that the DN has been ‘produced’ by the claimant

 

I’ve got to get the n170 in post tomorrow.

 

Trial will be in August.

date to be confirmed.

 

I’m still not sure if I will get that far.

Not sure I can win and don’t know if I would be better trying to get a TO rather than a huge CCJ I think they will hammer the costs

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they cant its small claims costs are fixed

 

N170?


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it’s fast track dx. I’ve got to do a pre trial check list thinks it’s n170 and it asks if claiming costs. I’m assuming the claimant does one also

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oh yea good show..get it done..


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

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Anyone ever completed an n170 pre trial check list? Not sure what to put on it for costs or leave that blank?

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PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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Thanks dx

I have read through all of those links where n170 is mentioned but no one discusses costs.

 

I’m assuming it’s for me to say whether I am applying for costs (I imagine the claimant will apply for thousands).

 

Im not sure whether to bother or what kind of figure a defendant would put in (probably moot anyway as will probably lose)

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£19PH research

postage/stationary costs

loss of work £90 per day.

 

think that right

 

please don't forget you can search CAG too!!

use the search CAG box of the top red toolbar

 

https://cse.google.co.uk/cse?cx=partner-pub-8889411648654839:6449422593&ie=UTF-8&q=schedule+of+costs+fast+track&sa=Search+CAG


PLEASE DONT HIT QUOTE IF THE LAST POST IS THE ONE YOU ARE REPLYING TOO.

MAKES A THREAD TWICE AS LONG TO SCROLL THROUGH!

please do not post jpg images directly to a topic..USE PDF ....READ UPLOAD.

 

WE CAN'T GIVE ADVICE BY PM - IF YOU SEND ME A LINK TO YOUR THREAD - I WILL BE HAPPY TO OFFER HELP THERE

Single Premium PPI Q&A Read Here

Reclaim mis-sold PPI Read Here

Reclaim Bank Account, Loan & Credit Card Charges Read Here

The CAG Interest Tutorial Read Here

spreadsheets 

 

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Thanks dx. Yes I did search and saw the £19. Will add on the day loss of work for the trial too.

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