Euro Car Parks ANPR PCN - , M & B, Toby Carvery, Hollybush Hill, Snaresbrook, London, E11 1PE

[Bloke199]

Hi all,

 

I'm doing this for my brother,

who is registered disabled,

so assumes that because he had a blue disabled badge on display,

he didn't need to pay for a ticket to park here.

 

The following details are the information so far:

 

1 Date of the infringement 18th Oct, 2017

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 24th Oct, 2017

 

3 Date received 26th Oct, 2017

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] Yes

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Two small photos showing vehicle registration number plate on entry to, and then exit from, the car park

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up you appeal] no

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up no

 

7 Who is the parking company? Euro Car Parks

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] M & B, Toby Carvery, Hollybush Hill, Snaresbrook, London, E11 1PE

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. Yes, BPA POPLA

 

 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure,

please check HERE

 

I have told him to hang tight about either appealing, or paying the parking charge, until you guys can give us the next directions on what to do

 

Many thanks for your help.

 

Bloke199

[renegadeimp]

so the only evidence they have is him entering and leaving? They dont take into account him driving around to find a space, actually parking etc, then after shopping, packing up, getting in car, driving out. Plus grace period.

 

What exactly are they claiming?

[dx100uk]

can we see the NTK please

scan both side to ONE multipage PDF

read UPLOAD

[Bloke199]

Hi DX,

 

Thanks for the quick reply, I've only got copies of the letters as Jpegs, so were unable to do as one PDF, but both sides have been attached to this post as individual PDF's. Hope that is ok.

 

Hi Renegadeimp,

 

They are claiming for £85 because a valid pay and display/permit was not shown.

 

Many thanks for your help so far

 

Bloke199

ECP PCN.pdf

[dx100uk]

opps you forgot to remove your personal details

I've sorted that

 

dx

[ericsbrother]

we will need to see the signage at the site.

 

The supposed breach is not displaying a P&D OR permit so this raises questions about the permit scheme and also the terms of the pay and display.

 

For this we also need to see what is written on the ticket machine and any other term that affects the performance of the contract such as refund of ticket from pub.

 

lastly,

why would your brother think that just because he is disabled he doesnt have to pay?

 

I am disabled but realise that adjustments made to provide equal access to a facility doesnt mean I get everything for free.

 

It may seem trite but a lot of problems wouldnt arise if people read what was being offered and then asked their solicitor what exactly the parking company means.

 

If you dont take a lawyer with you every time you go to a car park to explain things then this is what you can expect.

 

If I used emojis I would now place one here.

[Bloke199]

Hi DX,

 

Many thanks for changing that, I see it mentioned so many times, then did the exact same myself, what a womble !!

 

Hi EB,

 

I will ask him to get photos of the entrance, all the signs and payment machine, and send them to me, as soon as he can. As to why he didn't check to see if he had to pay, I can only assume he thought that he didn't need to while having a blue badge.

 

I'll update as soon as I hear anything.

 

Many thanks again.

 

Bloke199

[silverfox1961]

Hi,

Euro car parks are members of the BPA and MUST follow the code of practice. The fact that this site is ANPR means nothing. He received a ticket for what? Overstaying?

 

Doesn't matter anyway as when they are supplied proof of disability (photocopy of the blue badge) they should cancel the ticket. If they choose not to do so, they will be in breach of the code of practice.

 

Page nine here spells it out in black and white

http://tinyurl.com/y7jg9fs9

 

DO NOT pay the charge. As far as I am aware, the Toby group make provisions for the disable (dedicated parking bays)

 

Based on the above, I would appeal with copies of the blue badge (both sides) and leave the ball in their court

[Bloke199]

Hi all,

 

I've attached some photos that my brother got earlier on today, including the sign by the entrance, pay and display machine, and the sign above it, the parking bays, and entrances to the pub itself.

 

Hopefully, these will give you some of the information that you needed.

 

Hi Silverfox,

 

He received the parking charge for not showing a valid permit/pay and display ticket. As you can see in the photo's, there is only 2 disabled parking bays, although it does say on the sign above the pay and display machine that there is no concessions for disabled badge holders.

 

I'll wait to hear from you guys as to what the next plan of action should be.

 

Many thanks,

 

Bloke199

photos.pdf

Edited November 10, 2017 by dx100uk
files merged to one PDF - dx

[dx100uk]

I think you might have misunderstood we need photos of the 'entrance'

not the entrance of the establishment

but the entrance of the CAR PARK.

 

in the last photo

we need those two signs on the right too!

[ericsbrother]

picture of the entrance to the land from the public highway is what the drivers view at the time would be.

 

If there is a sign but it is hidden by a tree then that is the same as no sign so no contract offered.

 

we cant read the sign at the car park entrance so another close up picture of it please plus a close up picture of the ticket machine so we can read what is written on that.

 

The sign at the entrance appears to refer to other signs so in this case the contract offered is what is written on the ticket machine and this sign is an invitation to treat,

which you can accept or reject.

 

If brother went to carvery then they have created an individually negotiated contract and the signs then become meaningless

[Bloke199]

Hi everyone,

 

My brother received another letter this morning from Euro Car Parks, stating the charge is now £85. I have told him to ignore it for the time being, but to hold onto it.

 

I've also asked him to take additional photos of all the signs around the car park, a close up view of the one by the entrance, as well as if he was driving into the car park, and also a close up of the pay and display sign on the machine.

 

I will update you all when I've heard from him.

 

Many thanks for the help and information so far.

 

Bloke199

[Bloke199]

Hi all,

 

Just an update from the last time I posted, my brother received a Debt Collectors Agency letter today demanding payment on behalf of Euro Car Parks for £145, I have told him to ignore but hold onto the letter.

 

Any further updates I get, I'll let you all know.

 

Cheers,

 

Bloke199

[silverfox1961]

DR Plus by any chance?

 

As it stands, the debt collector can do even less than ECP. Eventually they will stop too. He may receive solicitor letters. This is where most people fold and pay up by thinking that now a solicitor is involved, court action is being mooted.

 

In the past year, ECP have issued over 260 thousand tickets and only took two cases to court. That speaks volumes.

[renegadeimp]

As an aside from the topic, how do yo find out how many cases theyve taken to court.

[ericsbrother]

the courts service produce stastistics on such things

although they tend to try and keep it quiet where there are contentious issues such as perjury alleged against some serial litigants.

 

If you do a FOI request you can normally dig a but deeper but others will generally have beaten you to it so a web trawl to find the published information is needed.

[renegadeimp]

Gotcha. Thanks.

[Bloke199]

DR Plus by any chance?

 

 

Hi Silverfox,

 

That was a good guess !!

 

Yep, same old spiel, recommend court action, Supreme Court case back in 2015, blah blah blah.

 

We shall wait to see what letter arrives next.

 

Bloke199

[silverfox1961]

As an aside from the topic, how do yo find out how many cases theyve taken to court.

 

I generally look at the BMPA site and in the last link on the right shows the info. It isn't totally up to date but it does give a good idea of the chances on court.

 

http://www.bmpa.eu/company_guide_0_to_c.html

[Bloke199]

Hi all,

 

Seems ages since the last post, hope you all had a good Christmas and New Year, etc, etc

 

DR+ have sent another letter to my brother, this time with a reduced rate to pay, as a goodwill gesture to £129.

 

They also 'threatened' in the letter, that they'll recommend their client to take court proceedings if this generous offer was not accepted. My brother asked if this meant he'll be taken to court if he didn't pay the reduced amount.

 

I pointed out to him the words 'recommend to their client' to go to court, not actually do it.

 

I have advised him to ignore, but hold on to the letter, and to wait to see what comes in the post next.

 

Any further updates, I will post here.

 

Cheers,

 

Bloke199

[dx100uk]

they could also recommend a brand of soap powder..doesn't mean anyone will use it though......

[DragonFly1967]

they could also recommend a brand of soap powder..doesn't mean anyone will use it though......

 

Bold

 

Like the fonts they love to use

[Bloke199]

they could also recommend a brand of soap powder..doesn't mean anyone will use it though......

 

Ha ha ha ha ha, thanks DX, that made me chuckle

 

Bloke199

[Bloke199]

Hi all,

 

Just another update,

received another letter,

this time from Zenith,

urging my brother to act now to take advantage of their discounted settlement offer of £99.99,

it also has in the top right corner,

a black box stating 'NOTICE OF INTENTION TO COMMENCE LEGAL PROCEEDINGS',

 

however, it turns out that Zenith is another name for DR+, the cheeky buggers, just as well my brother didn't pay the original overinflated charge in their first letter after all !!!

 

Told him this isn't the Letter Before Action, so not to reply to this one.

 

Cheers,

 

Bloke199

[silverfox1961]

NOTICE OF INTENTION TO COMMENCE LEGAL PROCEEDINGS

 

Now, that says to me that Zenith (DR+) are intending to commence legal proceedings except they can't. They are just a poxy debt collector with absolutely no power to state that.