UkCPM/gladstones claimform - PNC St Michaels Church, Church Square, Basingstoke. *** WON - CASE DISMISSED ***

[fred12345]

Thanks Eb will add those points.

 

I'm off to resnap a few more site pictures of signs and to double check if their site plan is true.

 

The one sign that's on the entrance to the carpark seated on a post about 7ft off the ground isnt on their plan

(you'd think it would being the first sign you see if you look up)

 

should I make note of this in my statement?

And any other signs that are not shown in their plan?

[ericsbrother]

you have put a lot in your statement that could go into your other evidence files and then just refer to appendix 1, 2 etc.

 

Take everything along with you including a spare kitchen sink as you wont know which direction the hearing will lead you.

 

Also as there is a named witness who ststes they are ging to talk about all of their stuff

if that person doent turn up

ask that their evidence be expunged as they arent there to be cross-examined and you are challenging the veracity of some of it.

 

PE got clobbered for this a couple of months ago

 

so look out the case on the Parking Pranksters blog and quote that case as being persuasive

[fred12345]

Witness statements handed into the court today all nicely on time.

 

Gladstones copy is on the slow train as I type.

 

As they never produced docs at my request - twice!

And made sure their statement arrived with little time to hit back

(those points are highlighted on my statement and have been addressed in previous cases) then they can wait a day longer..

 

For now cheers all for the help with the mad dash.

 

I will take my mind off it for a few days then prepare additional bits to hit them further come the day.

[fred12345]

Few questions.

 

My case has a preliminary hearing set for the 8th of Feb.

Why is this done first?

 

Reading through various other cases I can't find one that has had this.

 

Is this preliminary hearing one we attend?

 

As it almost sounds like a hearing on papers.

 

Also in reply to my strike out letter from the court they mentioned a hearing date for the 2nd of March.

 

These 2 dates have given me some confusion as to when witness statements are exchanged.

 

I'm assuming at some point before any hearing both parties have to exchange all documents?

[ericsbrother]

it is called case management and the judge usually sets aside a short time to look at things that disturb him and then order one party or the other to resubmit various bits of their paperwork.

 

Now as Gladdys dont file a proper claim as far as showing rights to make one, what they are claiming the money for ( eg breach of contract or as a contractual charge)

 

then they are ordered to resubmit a proper claim with all of the details as to why they are claiming from you and exactly how the amount was arrived at and sends this in to court, copied to you buy a certain date or lose the claim automatically.

 

This suggests that your letter has been read and the judge,

although not striking the claim,

has seen enough to make them look at the paperwork with a view.

 

Attend if you can

, Gladdys are very unlikely to spend £100 sending someone along just to be told off.

 

You will probably get your bus fare back but nothing else.

 

Always worth it though as you can normally get your basic defence across and gauge how the land lies.

 

Gladdys reputation goes before them so it wont be looked at in isolation.

[fred12345]

Cheers Eb. Will definitely attend the preliminary hearing.

 

It does look like I've over read into other posts and got confused with timings.

 

My witness statement wasn't requested at this stage yet - though it's now sent out.

 

This I hope will add just that bit more to my defence and show the judge at the preliminary hearing that I've ripped gladstones witness statement to shreds long before the real hearing date.

 

If that's how it works of course.

[ericsbrother]

minus side of sending it early is they may try and trash it and adjust their paperwork to fit in with that rather than telling their story as it was at the time.

 

Still, they have to get past the case management first and that hopefully wont be easy for them and they then just give up to save themselves a costs order.

[fred12345]

That crossed my mind with them trashing it.

 

Did try to retrieve it back from our post office but missed out by minutes!

 

I'm in a way glad that the court has a copy of my ws and hope that it might pop out during the preliminary hearing as it does pretty much trash all their points..

 

On the other hand do courts strike out any claims at a preliminary hearing stage

- given that I've given some strong points in my ws that have shown gladstones are just simply a bunch of liars?

[ericsbrother]

Yes they do but that would be unusual unless the judge really though the claim was that duff it wasnt arguable at all.

 

Commonest sort of thing there is the infamous company who "bought" debts from the lower level parking co's and then tried their luck at court and had all of the defended claims chucked out because they didnt have any locus standi as the assignment of the debt wasnt done anywhere near properly.

 

That isnt the case here so chances are Gladdys will be told to resubmit within a fortnight or game over.

 

If that is the order then tell the judge if your copy of the paperwork is even a day late and request a judgement without a hearing n your favours becuse of that..

[fred12345]

Preliminary hearing is set for Thursday. I'm doing the talking for my wife.

 

Is there anything I need to do or say so I have rights to do that?

[DragonFly1967]

Just make sure that you have at least 1 copy of the Lay Representatives (Rights of Audience) Order 1999 with you. Just in case the judge queries your right to speak on behalf of your wife. It's always better to be ready for it

[ericsbrother]

As said,

generally these are just case management orders or ways of clarifying what law people are relying on

so be nice and helpful and explain why you are there rather than trying to push too hard at this stage.

shouldn't take long and with luck the claimant will be told their claim is rubbish and to either redo it or forget about it.

 

If you do have the opportunity to say why it is a rubbish claim they may well be told that they are likely to lose should they continue. At this stage it wont matter of you admit being the driver as it isnt you that is being sued.

 

If you are asked why you didnt own up before point out the POFA places the burden of proof on the parking co and they have failed to follow the protocols etc so it is now evident they are chasing wrong person.

 

If this isnt asked the dont mention it and keep it for later but dont trya and avoid the issue and dont tell lies.

Edited February 6, 2018 by dx100uk
paras

[fred12345]

So the notice of allocation to small claims track reads..

 

1. The claim is allocated to small claims track.

 

2. A preliminary hearing is required to enable the court to consider the directions which need to be made in this case because it may be possible to dispose of the claim at such a hearing, it appears from the papers that the defendant may have no real prospect of success at a final hearing.

 

3. The preliminary hearing will take place on the first available date with a time estimate of 20 minutes.

If notice giving details of the time and place of the hearing is not enclosed with this order, one will be sent to you shortly.

 

4. The claimant must deliver to the court office and to the defendant by no later than 14 days before the preliminary hearing a witness statement in support of the claim attaching all documents to be relied upon. Those documents must include a copy of the agreement (redacted if necessary to preserve commercial confidentiality) giving authority to regulate parking on the land in question.

 

5. Because this order has been made without a hearing, the parties have the right to apply to have the order set aside, varied or stayed. A party making such an application must send or deliver the application to the court (with fee) to arrive within 7 days of service of this order.

 

Is this the usual way for a court claim?

 

 

Point 5. It says this order has been made without a hearing (assuming this refers to the preliminary hearing) am I correct that I can't attend this hearing as it's not actually a hearing? I'd rather not turn up just to be told that we don't need to attend this because it's just the judge reading through the papers whilst he's sat on the loo!!

[fred12345]

Ignore above. I've just noticed EB has added a reply above it

[ericsbrother]

if the claimant has been ordred to produce documents and send you copies within a timescale that they havent stuck to then point this out.

 

Also, as the blurb thinks you have no real defence

 

you will need to take a copy of the POFA and ram it home that the parking co has a lot of hoops to jump through

and they have failed in this respect,

 

not just for the keeper liability part

but failing to identify the land,

failing to show authority etc.

[fred12345]

Thanks EB. Their ws arrived within the set set time frame all other requested documents ie CPR and the first request for all documents including proof of postage for the ntk and LBA was ignored by these parasites.

 

I won't take to much with me tomorrow just a few notes of the raised points above and bring them up if I'm given the chance to say anything.

 

As I'm aware there's a anpr car park across the road from the court that's run by another group of clowns - I may get myself some free parking hmm.

 

Will post up the outcome straight after.

[DragonFly1967]

As I'm aware there's a anpr car park across the road from the court that's run by another group of clowns - I may get myself some free parking hmm.

 

That's the spirit

[lookinforinfo]

Under POFA. Churches are not subject to the need for planning permission for advertisements. But these ads are not Church related but commercial ads [uKPC make money as a result of them so they will require Council planning.

[ericsbrother]

take everything, the judge hasnt read up on this properly

[fred12345]

Ok I've got the copy of pofa. Right of audience. The court should have the copy of my ws and defence.

 

Should I take a copy of my ws, defence and CPR?

Is there any further acts I should print up and bring along?

[fred12345]

Ok. There was some confusion over the preliminary hearing dates between me and my good lady! She had written it all down wrong.. so we missed it! Gutted..

 

As I'm aware the final hearing should be set for the 2nd of March - this date was only mentioned in the response back from my strike out letter. Stating my strike out will be looked over in the up coming hearing on the 2nd March.. now I haven't received any formal paperwork / letters from the court that I can see that officially sets this date in stone.

 

I also haven't had any further info back on the preliminary hearing in the way of "next steps" etc. Keeping in mind I sent my ws to gladstones and the court 2 weeks before the preliminary hearing, though it wasn't requested..

 

What's the advise now as tomorrow marks the date (which as I say doesn't look set in stone) where it's 2 weeks before the possible main hearing? And I'm right in guessing that all things should be exchanged or 're submitted etc 2 weeks before.

[ericsbrother]

yes, you exchange docs. If theirs are late you com-lain on the day but to be honest unless you ony got them the day before you wont get far if that is your only hope.

 

Yours is a prime example of why we keep asking people to post for themselves and not rely on third parties, whether well meaning parents, neighbours etc. Now the judge will ahve made an order and we dont know waht that says and whether it has any bearing on you or just on Gladdys.

 

So you need to find out EXACTLY when the last date for exchanging documents is and EXACTLY when the hearing is. Dont forget things like planning permission and on the day rights of audience, you a lay rep and challenge their agents credentials.

 

If they arent employed by UKPCM, or Gladdys they must be a solicitor, not some paralegal. Copy the relevant part of the legislation so you get your say and they dont.

 

Also, their WS will be signed by either an employee or more commonly a paralegal that works for Gladdys. Ask the jusdge to have it removed from their evidnce bundle if the named person doent turn up as you would wish to cross examine them as you believe that there are serious errors in their matters of fact. Dont worry, there will be.

Edited February 16, 2018 by honeybee13
Paras

[fred12345]

Allocated to our local small claims court for the 12th April. That's the main hearing.

[ericsbrother]

date for exchange of documents? Usually 14 days before so DONT miss it and hand them a walkover.

[fred12345]

Notice of allocation to the small claims track (hearing)

 

Dj Glen has considered the statements of case and directions questionnaire filed and allocated the claim to the small claims track.

 

Unless the claimant does by 4pm on the 14th March pay to the court the trail fee of £25.00 or file a properly completed application (ie one which provides all the required information in the manner requested) for help with fees, then the claim will be struck out with effect from the 14th March without further order and , unless the court orders otherwise, you will be liable for the cost which the defendant has incurred.

 

The hearing will take place......

 

Other notes about basic things etc..

 

General form of judgement or order.

 

Before dj Glen sitting at county court...

 

At a hearing on the 2nd Feb before judge Glen sitting at the court... the judge heard the solicitor for the claimant (noted that the defendant failed to show oops) and made the following order.

 

1) the claim will be heard at the court house as attached to this order.

 

2) from the papers it's estimated the hearing to take 1 and a half hours.

 

3) the parties are encouraged to settle the case by negotiation. Parties are encouraged to contact each other with a view to settle or narrow the case. Ha!

 

4)The following paragraphs set out the judges directions for preparation for the hearing. Failure to comply with the directions may result in the case being adjourned...

 

5) the defendant must send to the claimant the photographs attached to her statement by 4pm 5th March (not sure what those are. Will look into that)

 

6) the original of all documents must be brought to the hearing.

 

7) the judge may refuse to consider a document or take it into account if a copy of it has not been sent to the other party as required by this order

 

 

Let me know your thoughts. Seems straight forward unless I've read between lines.