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UkCPM/gladstones claimform - PNC St Michaels Church, Church Square, Basingstoke. *** WON - CASE DISMISSED ***

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I've been dealing with a parking charge claim form that turned up unexpectedly a few weeks back..

 

For the heads up no other letters were received before the claim form arrived.

 

I have filed a defence on claims that no other letters were received before the claim form.

 

The particular of claim is worded as all others (registered keeper is the driver etc) among other things related to car park contracts/signs etc using some templates for a suitable defence

 

The defence was filed on time and today a notice of proposed allocation to small claims track arrived.

 

The option of mediation is there.

 

Help needed on what move is next.

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no to mediation

1 wit you

the rest is obv.

 

if you want more

can you please fill out the court claim sticky on this forums homepage so we have the background


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Could you attach a link dx for that bit. Can't find it

 

Thanks

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opps you were in general legals forum

now in private parking forum

1000's of like threads here to read

 

you should see it now.

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?465231-Received-a-Court-Claim-From-A-Private-parking-Speculative-invoice-How-To-Deal-With-It-HERE***Updated-Aug-2016***


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will be glad to help but we will need a lot of detail about the event that gave rise to the charge and also about where the vehicle was parked.

 

Your defence will be challenged and a request for striking out made

BUT when was the claim submitted to court because as of the beginning of October the LBA and the particulars of claim must contain a lot more detail then previouslly and can be booted out for non compliance with the new rules so knowing what the POC said will be important.

 

Also, have you moved house since the parking event or possibly not had the correct keeper details?

 

We need to know this as well, if they have screwed up there then another reason for the claim being chucked out if you point this out

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I will update this evening with all relevant information.

 

I be also received a letter from Gladstone today with the direction questionair contained.

 

Do I need to post up here the car park in question?

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no we don't need to see their N180

 

await yours from the COURT


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date of issue 4th October.

 

Do I need to name the car park on this thread? is it safe to do so?

 

No other letters to the build up of a claim form were received,

not moved so no change of address

- though the postal service isn't great here!

 

The vehicle is registered in my wife's name and is only used by one family member who is under the age of 18 who can't be the registered keeper as the law states.

The only sign to the entrance of the car park is sighted on a pole around 7ft in the air with other dotted around in places where parked cars would block their view.

The carpark issues windscreen tickets.

 

Particulars of claim are:

1.The driver of the vehicle registration number ***** (the vehicle) incurred the parking charge(s) on */03/2017for breaching the terms of Parkinson land at ************

 

2.The defendant was driving the vehicle and/or is the keeper of the vehicle.

 

3.AND THE CLAIMANT CLAIMS

£160 for parking charges / damages and indemnity costs if applicable, together with

interest of £6.49 pursuant to s69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at 8% pa, continuing

to judgment at £0.04 per day.

 

amount claimed £166.49

Court fee. £25.00

Legal rep cost £50.00

Total £241.49

 

Happy to share carpark address if good to post!

 

My defence is made up from the usual main defence thats common on this type of claim.

I have requested copies of any said letters including NTK (if they ever sent them out) inc. proof of postage of said letters before continuing with any claim.

Nothing received.

 

Yesterdays letter arrived from the court - Notice of proposed allocation to the small claims track.

 

Todays letter from Gladstone states;

We act for the claimant and have notified the Court of our clients intention to proceed.

 

Please find enclosed a copy of our clients completed Directions Questionnaire, which will be filed with the court upon their request.

You will note we intend to request a special direction that the case be dealt with on papers and without the need for an oral hearing

 

This request is sought simply because the matter is in our clients opinion relatively straightforward and the costs incurred by both parties for attending an oral hearing would be disproportionate. we trust you agree.

 

You will note our client has elected not to mediate. Its decision is not meant to be in any way obstructive and is based purely on experience, as mediation has rarely proven beneficial in these types of cases. Notwithstanding this, our client would be happy to listen to any genuine payment proposals that you wish to put forward.

 

Hope this helps

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yes name the carpark as from the poc bit please


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Don't agree to on the papers, as that prevents you from pulling their case to shreds in court.


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I would suggest that the POC fails to reach the standard required for the new Civil Procedure Regs as it doesn't identify what capacity you may owe their client money (saying driver/keeper wrong- 2 different people) nor does it say why the amount is £160 if they are suing the keeper because the amount cannot exceed the amount on the sign.

 

This may be different if the signage mentions specific amounts payable after a certain period of time and other expense incurred but that applies to the driver only.

Now, we need to see the signs and where in the car park the car was at the time of the alleged event.

 

You need to send Gladstones a CPR 31.14 request for documents and ask for copies of all of the paperwork, including their LBA and also the contract between the landowner and CPM that assigns the right for CPM to enter into contracts with the public and to make civil claims in their own name.

 

If they wont produce this you can state in your Witness Statement that you dont believe they have such a contract and thus no right to claim anything (locus standi). The parking bandits dont like to produce their contracts because they are often flawed or have expired and that opens them up to a class action or a criminal investigation ( I wish)

Edited by Andyorch
Paras

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Car park is; Land at St Michaels Church- St Michaels Church, Church Square, Basingstoke,

Hants Rg21 7QW

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we need pictures of the entrance from the road and any signage there, pictures of the signs in the car park with approximate dimensions and font size and pictures of any equipment and associated signage like ticket machines.

 

Also nots if there are any other entrances and exits other than the one used by your vehicle. Count the signs and note their location because you will be drawing a map to show where they were. The parking co's often produce fake photos ( ie stock images) to better theircase, these rarely show the trees or wheelie bins obscuring them!

 

Photogrpah any signs that are different. We need to see the small print.

Edited by honeybee13
Paras

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is there a specific way to word the CPR 31.14 request?

 

I have a blurry shot of the carpark entrance sign taken from in side my car a few weeks ago - I stopped right in front of it! so that tells you how clear its worded and its position. Parking charge of £100 is the only mention of money on it. I will get a clearer shot of it and all other signs around the carpark.

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Now, I would love to see the contract that CPM have as who owns the land? the crown? Church Commissioners for the CofE? Who signed the deal? local vicar? PCC? Queen as head of church? (should be)

Cant wait

 

looking on google the only parking signs I can see belong to the local council and say local resident parking only.

 

Take photos of these as well,

it is clear that there is confusion over the signage as I am not seeing anything offering me a contract to park on what is apparently public land and the case of dawood v camden is persuasive in this argument, even if it is private land.

 

In Chute house there is a sign that prohibits parking so again if that is the place there is not an offer of a contract so no breach of one

 

If the land is off Elbow Corner then that is another point unless the road is commonly known as Church Square as the land in question must be clear in the POC.

 

As it stands they cant show any association with the address so pictures of the public highway and the total lack of any parking spaces associated with CPM or their supposed masters may well defeat the claim withour going into the detail of what contract may have been offered or not

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Around the back of the church the lane leading into the carpark is known as Elbow Corner. Thats the only way in or out.

 

Any links for a suitable template for CPR 31.14.

 

Run through google and most are mixed up or only suitable for getting ready for filing a defence (which has already been sent) is there any cost to pay other than postage?

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the CPR 31.14 is not for filing your defence it is to get the claimant to show they have the documents they will rely on to make their claim.

 

They say a breach of contract,

 

well, they need to show they have a relationship with the landowner that allows them to enter into contracts.

 

all you need to say is what I put in post 11 after the qword Gladstones.

It really is that simple.

the rest you see on other posts merely lays out the detail of the CPR, not the paperwok you are after.

 

They arent going to sen you it anyway but them you can add this to your witness statement and ask again for it. they usually drop the claim then.

 

then a moot point but they have failed to keep to the requiremtns of the POFA so something else to argue if they have named the land incorrectly in such a way as to cause confusion as to where it is or what authority they may have.

 

So, if they call it St Michales Sq then that is all public highway so they have no rights over it. If they say St Michales church then that indicates a specific location regardless of the postal address.

 

Around the back of the church the lane leading into the carpark is known as Elbow Corner. Thats the only way in or out.

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to the solicitors

 

[Your address]

.

 

[Their address [solicitors]

.

[Date]

.

 

Dear Sir or Madam,

.

Re: (Claimant's name) v (Your name) Case No:

.

CPR 31.14 Request

.

On (date) I received the Claim Form in this case issued by you out of the (Name) county court.

.

I confirm having returned my acknowledgement of service to the court in which I indicate my intention to contest all of your claim.

.

Please treat this letter as my request made under CPR 31.14 for the disclosure and the production of a verified and legible copy of [each of the following / the] document(s) mentioned in your Particulars of Claim:

.

1. the contract between [parking company name] and the landowner that assigns the right to enter into contracts with the public and make claims in their own name,.

.

2.proof of planning permission granted for signage etc under the Town and Country Planning Act 2007

.

3.copies of the notice to driver, notice to keeper and any other correspondence from [insert Claimant Name] & [insert Solicitors Name} to the defendant that they intend to rely upon in court.

.

You should ensure compliance with your CPR 31 duties and ensure that the document(s) I have requested are disclosed at your earliest convenience..

.

Your CPR 31 duties extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for the originals of the documents I have requested, the better for you to be able to verify the document's authenticity and to provide me with a legible copy.

.

Further, where I have requested a copy of a document, the original of which is now in the possession of another person, you will have a right to possession of that document if you have mentioned it in your case. You must take immediate steps to recover and preserve it for the purpose of this case.

.

Where I have mentioned a document and there is in your possession more than one version of that same document owing to a modification, obliteration or other marking or feature, each version will be a separate document and you must provide a copy of each version of it to me. Your obligations extend to making a reasonable and proportionate search for any version(s) to include an obligation to recover and preserve such version(s) which are now in the possession of a third party.

.

In accordance with CPR 31.15© I undertake to be responsible for your reasonable copying costs incurred in complying with this CPR 31.14 request.

.

If you are unable to comply with this request within 14 days and believe that you will never be able to comply with this request please confirm in your response.

.

You are reminded that as this case is yet to be allocated to a track, CPR31:14 does apply, a refusal to comply because you 'think' at this stage you dont have too will be used against you in any filed defence.

.

 

Yours faithfully

.

TYPE YOUR NAME DO NOT SIGN IT


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shame you came here SO LATE!!

 

get that CPR running

 

dx


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Thanks dx.

Will get that out to them today.

 

Thought I had it all covered!

 

My defence does cover all the usual areas in these cases as I gave it all a good read when the claim form arrived.

 

I have requested docs from them already though it was written down in a paragraph in my defence not under a CPR.

 

Cheers for the help so far

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I've been out and snapped the signs.

 

Here as follows what there is around the car park.

X7 small signs 12x12 inch dotted around the car park.

These are placed in areas where cars would obscure the view if parked.

 

Theses read, Mon - sat these bays are for the use of st micheals permit holders only.

Vehicles without a permit maybe subject to sanction.

For details please see the car park management sign.

 

X3 signs (1 on the enterence) the other 2 very near by.

The large print can be seen on using Google street..

 

by entering or remaining on this land you agree and abide by all the terms and conditions.

Breach of any term and condition will result in the driver being liable for a parking charge of £100..

 

.the terms read; parking charges to be paid within 28 days.

Card payments are subject to £1.50 processing fee.

 

Additional parking charges apply for each 24hrs period, or part thereof,

the the vehicle remains in breach or if it returns at any time.

Terms and conditions apply 24 hours a day all year round.

 

Where a parking charge becomes due an application to DVLA may be made for the keepers details.

Non payment will result in additional charges which will be added to the value of the charge and for which the driver will be liable on a indemnity basis.

 

Anpr may be in use.

Images may be captured and retained for enforcement purposes.

We are not liable for losses etc..

.. These signed are 18 × 24 inches.

The main entrance sign is higher than 6 feet on a pole.

 

One single sign near the far corner of the car park reads;

Private property..

terms with parking without permission you do so at your own risk to property and personal injury and you are contractually agreeing to pay a parking charge fee.

 

The following fees apply.

Parking charge notice.... £90 per day or the reduced charge of £60 if paid within 14 days.

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the signs say that you have terms imposed upon the use of the land but then they offer no terms.

We know that permit holders only for certain times so that means if you park there then you are trespassing.

 

Outside these times you MAY incur a charge, not will.

 

The amounts asked for also vary so some confusion as to what is being offered.

there are no express terms that are clear and no method of payment of there is a charge to pay.

 

We still need to see the signage as we need to see if the ATA logo is present, whether they have given a proper address for their contact details and the like.

Edited by honeybee13
Paras

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ATA logo not present on any sign. The company name, address (p.o. box) and phone number is present. I can't get the images here! No idea how

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read upload

convert to PDF

pop them all in ONE multipage file please


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Notice of proposed allocation to the small claims track form.. as gladstones are going in for the paperwork only route with no sit in hearing, I'm to disagree with this route? On the form do I tick the box "yes" for C1 "do you agree that the small claims track is the appropriate track for this case?

 

No to mediation?

 

Cheers

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