Hxcpm pcn - St Georges Car Park, Fitzwilliam St Huddersfield, HD1 5BB

[AmmyArcher]

Hello All,

 

I have just received a 'Parking Charge Notice' from HX Car Park Management Ltd.

 

According to the contravention the: 'Pay and Display Ticket was face down' and they are requesting £60 (if paid within 14 days) or £100 (if paid within 28 days).

 

There are no ticket machines in the car park and on arrival to the car park you pay cash to an attendant, he gives you a piece of square, coloured paper with the date printed on it (which they have photographed as evidence). Each day you're provided with a different colour.

 

With hindsight, I stupidly didn't realise that I needed to place the dated ticket face upwards. I was under the impression that you couldn't park there without going past the parking attendant. Worryingly, I could potentially be liable for at least another three days as I'm not sure if I placed the coloured ticket 'face up' on the following days.

 

Any advice would be most appreciated as this could potentially be an anxiety inducing £240.00 in total (almost a week's wage for me).

 

All the best,

 

Amy

[CraigMcK]

Does it say on the ticket that it needs to be placed face up on the dash, by the sounds of it no, but it's worth confirming.

I would not worry about it for now, someone will be along to tell you how to not pay this, but in the mean time do not contact them until you get the correct advice.

[AmmyArcher]

Hi CraigMcK,

 

Many thanks for your reply. My thoughts are that you can't even receive a square, coloured ticket unless you actually pay cash to the attendant, and as such is proof of payment...trying not to let it ruin my weekend, and as you say, wait for correct advice.

 

Thanks all the same, means a lot

 

All the best,

 

Amy

[dx100uk]

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

 

can you complete this please:

 

dx

[AmmyArcher]

Good eveing dx100uk,

 

Many thanks for your reply, please see the following as requested:

 

For PNC's received through the post [ANPR camera capture]

 

1 Date of the infringement24.10.2017 (However, I'm not sure if I placed the coloured ticket 'face up' on 25.10.2017, 26.10.2017 and 27.10.2017).

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 25.10.2017

 

3 Date received 27.10.2017.

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] No

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up you appeal] No (Not yet - notice received today).

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up

 

N/A

 

7 Who is the parking company? HX Car Park Management Ltd

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] St Georges Car Park, Fitzwilliam Street, Huddersfield, HD1 5BB

 

For either option, does it say which appeals body they operate under. IAS Standard Appeals Service

 

There are two official bodies, the BPA and the IAS. If you are unsure,

please check HERE

 

IAS Standard Appeals Service

 

If you have received any other correspondence, please mention it here

 

N/A

 

Hope this information helps, please let me know if you require any further information.

 

All the best,

 

Amy

[dx100uk]

was this a windscreen ticket please

[AmmyArcher]

No, there wasn't any windscreen ticket, I just received an actual letter entitled: 'Parking Charge Notice' today (dated 25.10.2017).

 

All the best,

 

Amy

 

P.S. I can provide a scan of the colour dated ticket I was given by the parking attendant, if necessary.

[dx100uk]

scan up the PCN please to a pdf

read upload

sounds like this is operator photos?

[ericsbrother]

you are right, their claim is stupid in its concept but it shows what a bunch of shysters most parking co's are.

 

However, sight of the signage will be useful as there may well be no such condition of parking in the first place so you cant breach it.

 

Hi CraigMcK,

 

Many thanks for your reply. My thoughts are that you can't even receive a square, coloured ticket unless you actually pay cash to the attendant, and as such is proof of payment...trying not to let it ruin my weekend, and as you say, wait for correct advice.

 

Thanks all the same, means a lot

 

All the best,

 

Amy

 

do not appeal this ticket though, let us see the NTK and comment upon it first.

 

Appealing to any IPC member is pointless, they are self admitted rejectors of all appeals

[AmmyArcher]

Good evening,

 

Please find a copy of the PCN I received attached.

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

All the best,

 

Amy

 

Hello ericsbrother,

 

Thanks for your response.

 

I can get photographs of the signage and the guy taking people's money at the entrance on Monday, if that might help?

 

All the best,

 

Amy

PCN Parking Charge Notice.pdf

[dx100uk]

leave the photos in

we need to know if they are operator taken or anpr

I bet by the operator

[AmmyArcher]

leave the photos in

we need to know if they are operator taken or anpr

I bet by the operator

 

Hi dx100uk,

 

Yes, all the photos have been taken by the operator via a mobile phone (you can see the reflection of whoever took the photos in a couple of the photos). There are 2 photos on the PCN and 5 more on their website.

 

Shall I post them here? I'm just worried that they might identify me even if I remove the number plate.

 

Cheers,

 

Amy

[AmmyArcher]

Hi dx100uk,

 

Yes, all the photos have been taken by the operator via a mobile phone (you can see the reflection of whoever took the photos in a couple of the photos). There are 2 photos on the PCN and 5 more on their website.

 

Shall I post them here? I'm just worried that they might identify me even if I remove the number plate. I've attached the one where you can clearly see their reflection and the mobile they've taken the picture with.

 

Cheers,

 

Amy

PCN - Close Up Ticket.pdf

[dx100uk]

no that's answers it.

 

so he didn't leave a windscreen PCN?

 

you have the tickets still?

[AmmyArcher]

Yes, I've kept every ticket. I can post copies of them if needed?

[dx100uk]

good

we don't need them

but is should be easy to defeat this

await eric to pop in.

 

dx

[AmmyArcher]

Let's hope so dx100uk, thanks for your help.

[ericsbrother]

the NTK is not POFA compliant for at least 2 reasons,

they dont say who the creditor is so they cant claim that any amount is due to them at all, they may be agents of someone else and thus not an interested party.

 

Secondly,

they say they will assume that the keeper and driver are one and the same whan the law doesnt allow such an assumption,

 

they have to specifially say that they are going to rely on certain conditions being met to create a keepr liability and their NTK DOES NOT create that liability they are liars.

 

As such you can sue them for breach of the DPA for accessing your details when they have no cause to do so.

 

Sight of the signage still important as although most courts will rejects a claim based on assumption

 

some will make a decision based on the "balance of probabilities" as to whether you were the driver at the time

 

although this flies in the face of the statute law and the assumption that the claimant has to prove their claim rather than you disprove it they are allowed to do so so it is always wise to have more than one argument.

 

Now,

having paid to park you have entered a contract that entitles you to use the car park without them harassing you ("quiet enjoyment")

You paid the fee so you have a licence to be there.

 

If the terms of that licenece are confusing, unfair or unduly onerous then that contract is void under consumer contract law.

 

The parking co also have to show they have a right to offer contracts and make claims for breached in their own name nad many small operators like this one fail miserably in that area as their contract with the landonwer is often

limited,

out of date or

sometimes non-existent as they have signed a deal with someone else.

(VCS have a problem with contracts signed between them and another VCS owned company that no longer exists and not landlord so we always ask.)

 

on the point about windscreen tickets,

they dont have to issue them as long as they follow the correct parts of the POFA.

 

These bandits havent as explained.

Signage pictures please and also an indication of what is where as far as signs go.

 

As you pay a chap on entry to the car park they cant really argue about an upside down ticket, it is merely a receipt

 

a judge will not take kindly to them arguing about that to chisel more money out of the motorist, no loss has occurred, unlike for example, parking over 2 bays to the exclusion of another paying customer.

 

they also have the problem that their attendant did nothing to mitigate their loss

( they dont have one for starters)

he could have told you to make sure ticket is right way up on leaving so date can be read etc.

 

The different coloured receipts also make any claim look stupid, it is apparent it is the receipt issued.

[AmmyArcher]

Hello there,

 

I have taken photographs tonight and their signage has changed,

there seems to be signage everywhere!!!!

I felt sick when I saw it.

They must have put them up over the weekend and I don't have any photos of the car park as it was last week.

 

Not knowing that new signage had been put up

(please believe me, there was an old sign there last week - you can see it on Google Earth!).

 

I don't know if someone at work will be a witness for that and I'll ask tomorrow for anyone who can support the claim that all this signage has suddenly appeared, if needed.

 

I couldn't get a photo this morning of the attendant who is still handing tickets out (running late), a colleague confirmed it for me and will be a witness to this fact.

 

I will get a photo of the attendant tomorrow morning though, if needed.

 

I also noticed a brand new ticket machine, not yet set-up/connected, so it looks like they're in the process of upgrading the entire site at the moment.

 

Here are the photos of the 'new' signage (old signage on Google Earth):

 

One last thing, please see a copy of the parking ticket/receipt (as proof of payment for the day I've been given a PCN) attached:

 

All the best,

 

Amy

Parking Signage.pdf

Proof of Parking Payment.pdf

[AmmyArcher]

They've even made the local news today...confirming what I've said: 'Car park firm fines woman who parked ten minutes too early':

 

"The car park on waste ground off Fitzwilliam Street has no barriers or ticket machines. People using the site must pay a member of staff, who is not always present." (http://www.examiner.co.uk/news/car-park-firm-fines-woman-13834153).

 

Took a photo today of the traffic cone they sling a cardboard sign over where you have to pay the attendant, see attached.

 

Is no response a response and I'll just have to pay?

Stop to Pay Here.pdf

[CraigMcK]

I'm just checking your last line, you are not planning to pay are you?

Eric's brother has confirmed they are not compliant so would loose in court if they decided to go that route.

Interesting also there are no marked bays, but their terms specifically comment on them existing.

Really don't worry and definitely don't pay!

[dx100uk]

and as per usual the press get it wrong.

 

its NOT A FINE.

its a speculative invoice...

 

dx

[ericsbrother]

we need to see the detail of the terms and conditions of the new signage.

 

the fact they werent there when you parked is a bonus no conditions displayed then no contract.

 

reference on a sign to other signs means that the signage is not a contractual offer and you can take it or leave it regarding the detail on the sign you didnt see.

 

All of this is suppoed to be visible as you enter the land so there is nothing to fear in this case, the parking co's attempts at saying black is white are ridiculous.

 

You have the evidence you need to wipe the floor with them should they be stupid enough to try their luck at court.

 

It is now a waiting game,

do not respond to them until they get as far as a letter before claim and they are undoubtedly going to get the wording of that wrong as well as they will use Gladstones to help them

Edited November 2, 2017 by honeybee13
Paras

[AmmyArcher]

Good evening,

 

I need to make an appeal tonight to avoid the charge being increased from £60 to £100, any idea what I should write in the appeal?

 

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

 

All the best,

 

Amy

[brassnecked]

Have you not read and understood what EB has posted to VictoryToThePeople? Do nothing, an appeal is always kicked out and it encourages the Parking Cowboy to ramp up pressure. You also need to start your own thread and give the full details .