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UKPC windscreen PCN - Parked in Roadway Stevenage Leisure Park -

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Hi Guys.

So another week, another ticket.

 

I was driving the Mrs car, parked in Stevenage Leisure park on Saturday 22/10/2017.

I visited the Cineworld cinema for a few hours with her disabled brother.

 

The disabled bays where full so i parked on the side, out of the way but not on marked areas (Yellow hatches / double yellows etc).

 

I do park in the same spot when i come alone sometimes.

I parked the car as the parking guy watched, but he didn't say anything.

On returning I found a ticket on the windscreen from a company called UKPC.

 

Reason stated was: Parked in a roadway.

 

What to do?

p.s. if you need photographic evidence I have downloaded it from UKPC website (even though they try to not let you!)

parkingticket-StevenageLeisurePark_20171021-redacted.pdf

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please complete this:

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

 

await the NTK before you do anything other than going to get photos of the entrance

its signs

all the signs on the park

where they are


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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First of all,

DO NOT APPEAL THE NTD slapped on the car,

wait for the NTK and then see if the service of that is POFA compliant.

 

Secondly,

I bet that there is no such breach of contract as "parked on roadway" in the list of do's and donts on the signage

you cant be invoiced for a breach of a condition that does not exist.

 

The signs may have wording about parking in a marked bay but often that comes with pictures of cars parked across the demarkation lines into another bay, not on a road so wouldnt be applicable.

 

Also the siting of the signs relative to where you were parked is relevant as at the famous Brockholes car park hundreds of people got tickets for not parking in a car park because the anpr cameras covered a lane that wasnt part of the land question but as normal the parking co took a number of people to court and lost the defended claims an got booted out for incompetence by the landowner.

 

So details of the signs there, especially where they are sited relative to the entrance to the land and where you parked

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Here is the location

NOTE:

The other areas you cannot parked are marked with hashes / double yellows.

The vehicle is approximately to scale.

The vehicle does not cause instruction to any vehicles

There is no through path next to the vehicle

The area no longer has shrubbery (graveled over)

 

please complete this:

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?462118-Have-you-received-a-Parking-Ticket

 

await the NTK before you do anything other than going to get photos of the entrance

its signs

all the signs on the park

where they are

 

Thanks Dx

 

Answered:

1 The date of infringement? 21/10/2017

 

2 Have you yet appealed to the parking company yet? [Y/N?] No

 

if you have then please post up whatever you sent and how you sent it and the date you sent it,

suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload

 

has there been a response?

please post it up as well, suitably redacted. [as a PDF- follow the upload guide]

 

If you haven't appealed yet - ,.........

 

have you received a Notice To Keeper? (NTK) [must be received by you between 29-56 days]

what date is on it

Did the NTK provide photographic evidence? No NTK (Just the screen ticket) - See attached for photo evidence taken from the companies website

 

3 Did the NTK mention Schedule 4 of the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (PoFA) [Y/N?] - Will Update if it arrives

 

4 If you appealed after receiving the NTK,

did the parking company give you any information regarding the further appeals process?

[it is well known that parking companies will reject any appeal whatever the circumstances]

 

5 Who is the parking company? UKPC - UK Parking Control Ltd

 

6. where exactly [Carpark name and town] did you park? Stevenage Leisure Centre

 

The only thing i am worried about is the "14 day" period. Although the ticket is totally illegible of the "discounted" rate - I read it as 00.00 hahaha

parkingticket-StevenageLeisurePark_20171021-photos-redacted.pdf

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As dx stated, do nothing until the NTK arrives and then post a redacted image of it here.

 

Do not reply to it until you’ve been advised...

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Cool - Watch this space!

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we cant read the temrs on their picture of the sign and that doesnt indicate where the sign was o not much use as evidence for them anyway. Generally the wording is so poor as to be incomprehensible as an offer of a contract

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I haven't been back in the area since the event.

I wont be back there for another few weeks.

Shall i see if i can get someone to get me photos of the signage?

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If you can get photos yes, if not does it appear on Google street view?

 

You do nothing until you get the NTK anyway.

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there is no hurry for this, they cant send out anything for a month and then you have another month to consider paying or dobbing in the driver so nearly 2 months to get the required pictures of the signs and where you were parked.

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If you can get photos yes, if not does it appear on Google street view?

 

You do nothing until you get the NTK anyway.

 

I dont think there is Streetview on it, i should be there next week so will take proper photos.

 

there is no hurry for this, they cant send out anything for a month and then you have another month to consider paying or dobbing in the driver so nearly 2 months to get the required pictures of the signs and where you were parked.

 

Does this affect the whole pay within 14 days for discounted rate thing?

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forget their stupid dates..


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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forget their stupid dates..

 

Cool, will do thanks.

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if you are going to pay within the discounted period why bother asking us for advice? we are here to help fight these unwarranted charges by pointing out why they are unwarranted. Discount period? if you arent pating it doesnt exist.

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Hi

As the leisure/retail park is all on private land and with private roads, Google Streetview would not be able to drive around the site so no signs will be visible.

 

There is good and bad news with UKPC. They are members of the BPA who offer an appeals service which is independant (as opposed to the IPC and IAS who are biased towards the companies) although in recent times they have been a bit more belligerent.

The bad news is that unlike many other companies, the do take court action but compared to the amount of tickets issued to the amount of court cases taken, the figure is very low.

 

On a personal note, I would be angry with UKPC if one of their 'wardens' saw me park and didn't alert me to the risk of doing so. He saw you park. He could have spoken to you and advised that you should move. Why didn't he do so?

Commission pure and simple.


If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

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they mention the POFA but fail to send out an NTK that is compliant with it.

What muppets.

 

they say that it is ther clients land,

well that means they arent collecting money on their own behalf and as they dont mention they are the creditor you have no reason to pay them.

 

Now as they say the breach is parking on the roadway

then talk about signs in the car park

 

does this mean you drove through the car park to get to where your vehicle was photographed?

If not then how can you have considered a contractual offer for a differnt place?

 

That is 4 so far things that damage their claim,

I bet tht when you get pictures of the landad its signage there will be others,

 

not including what is called "mitigating their losses" by gtting their warden to get you to park properly and explaining the contract as the driver clealry didnt see it.

 

For the moment dont bother appealing

 

get some photos of

where your car was,

the entrance to the private land from the public highway

the signage at the car park

 

noting how far they are from where your car was

what lighting is there enabling you to read them from a distance at night.

 

Also note we refer to people in the third person

 

the driver instead of I/my wife/son etc

then the keeper when it comes to addressing points raised in the NTK

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Hi Guys,

 

Finally managed to get to Stevenage and take the pics. I think i have everything we need.

 

So points to note:

 

1. The white car with redacted number plate (To make sure they don't get a ticket too) - It is where my car was parked.

 

2. I am 5'10 and i found i had to stand really close to the sign and look quite high up to read the sign.

 

3. There are no markings in that location, no double yellows, no hatches, no road markings.

 

Thanks

parkingticket-StevenageLeisurePark_20171209-Redacted.pdf

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Confused or what! The signs say No Unauthorised Parking but then go on to say terms of parking apply at all times. Which is which? You are either authorised or not authorised. The signs are confusing.

 

As you didn't follow the terms of parking then you must be unauthorised therefore a trespasser and only the landowner can take action.

 

That's my take on it. Let others have their say as well


If you are asked to deal with any matter via private message, PLEASE report it.

Everything I say is opinion only. If you are unsure on any comment made, you should see a qualified solicitor

Please help CAG. Order this ebook. Now available on Amazon. Please click HERE

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agree with silverfox,

no unauthorised parking means a prohibition and thus not an offer of a contract so the rest of the sign is meaningless.

 

If you do accept the sign's other terms then the phrase makes it confusing because of both the dichotomy and also who authorisies parking when you park in the bays for example and thus how is a contract formed?

 

Is this a separate issue or can you be unauthorised to park there if the assumption is that somehow you are authorisd to park somewhre else.

 

The pictures showing no roadway parking have white lines on the kerb so where you parked isnt a roadway according to the sign.

Likelwise it isnt a marked bay so we are back to the unauthorised parking bit.

 

Now their sign also has a no leaving site indicator.

As this isnt lawful then it is an unfair term under the consumer contracts regs and you are entitled to reject the whole contract (or accept it if you wish)

Again, the no unauthorised parking wording makes this haredr for the parking co so say you have decided to accept the Unfair termslink3.gif because they arent offering you anything to start off with.

 

Likewise their thrat to charge you £60 for passing it on to a debt collectorlink3.gif.

Not allowed in law, the main reason they are allowed to demand £100 is to cover such costs, the POFA and contract law doesnr allow this part form under certain conditions that will never be met so the charge becomes an unlawful penalty as it is clearly there to deter.

 

The signage must be of a certain height above the ground so they can be seen from a distance.

Why didnt you take a stepladder with you one could ask.

 

Really though a big sign at the gate saying what parking conditions apply would make this point a secondary issue but they dont have that so you can argue that the signs are inadequate due to their positioning.

 

I note there is a small sign near to the entrance that offers different terms to the signs you have detailed, that means they arent necessarily an offer of a contract anyway as you appear to ahve a choice of terms ( more confusing signage arguments there) or it could be considered an "invitation to treat" and thsu when you read the actual contract you dont have to accept it.

 

so, all in all a lot wrong with this but dont forget, the majority of peopel will pay up becasue they dont know any better.

Edited by honeybee13
Paras

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Hey guys.

Thanks for your responses.

 

They totally make sense.

So what would my next steps be to argue against?

 

Thanks

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you dont argue, you let them waste their time and money chasing you for no reason. You only enter into any discourse with them at the last knockings.

There is no quick fix, that should be abundantly clear from the other 10000 posts on this forum

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Cool thanks.

 

By last knockings i assume you mean when it gets to court?

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dca's are not bailiffs ignore


please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

 

if everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's tomorrow

the biggest financial industry in the UK, the whole DCA industry would collapse overnight.

 

 

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