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    • So I make a post and ask you some questions and you then go in and make a response which deals with something completely different and which ignores the questions which I have asked completely. I don't see how we can move forward on that basis
    • Thank you. First of all, this is not chronology so we don't have any sense of the timeline. It's still rather complicated – but maybe when you produce a chronology it will come more into focus. However, there are a few things that we can start to tease out. You say that you accepted £250 in an offer which was intended to reflect distress. Although you say that you accepted this offer mistakenly, it may well be that you have no further rights on this issue because of course it would have been up to you to understand the situation properly before accepting any kind of financial offer. However, it would be useful to understand the reach of this offer and so please could you post up the offer letter by uploading it in PDF format. You say that "high-volume messaging" is not explicitly covered in the terms and conditions – but there may be references to "fair use policy" and it may be an interpretive problem rather than looking for words which specifically match your situation. So it will be helpful to know what words Vodafone were relying upon and also what was the extent of your high-volume messaging. Did they give you any warnings. You say that they referred to terms and conditions which you did not sign. However, it isn't necessary to sign terms and conditions. We would have to understand more about the context – but generally speaking if there is an agreement which refers to terms and conditions from the outset and you then embark upon the agreement and use the services, then all the signs would be that you've accepted the conditions of use. Signed written terms and conditions are generally speaking only required in contracts for property or copyright or shares. You say that the contract was put in your sole name despite the fact that the company name was on the agreement. We don't have a chronology so we don't see how long this went on for and you don't explain why you didn't raise any objections to this – or maybe you did? You say that you have sent Vodafone and Lowell an SAR but "so far" you are waiting for a response. This suggests that you sent the SAR some time ago – but you haven't told us anything about when this might have happened. You are referring to obligations under the Consumer Rights Act but I'm afraid that these obligations refer to contracts between a trader and a consumer – and you are not trading as a consumer so these probably wouldn't apply to you. Finally, you are worried about expressing a claim in legal language. If you begin a small claim then you certainly don't need any legal language – and in fact that kind of approach simply gets in the way. Also, it seems to me that you are gearing up to bring a court claim – which is fine, in my book – but you haven't identified your cause or causes of action and you don't have a plan. I think we need to slow down and have a more careful and methodical look at the situation. Otherwise you're simply going to find yourself in trouble
    • Late to this, sorry - my wife claims contributory ESA and got her P60 about two weeks ago. Now I know she's overpaid on her tax and I'm just waiting for HMRC (the department I currently work for) to figure it out. They owe her about £150.
    • World Bank President David Malpass says billions of people will have their livelihoods affected. View the full article
    • World Bank President David Malpass says billions of people will have their livelihoods affected. View the full article
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mutlet

HMRC Overpayment and before phoning

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Hello

Back in June 2017 we had a letter stating due to income (loads of overtime) we had been overpaid tax credits and payments would stop.

In August another letter stating that overpayments of £2800 had been received but a final decision would be made.

Final decision made and we are now facing a demand for this amount.

 

I have checked through our finances and this seems correct, they want all of 2016 -17 back and the few months of this years.

 

I have read through many of the threads about this and the advice is generally not to phone them,

in this case I guess it's ok just to set up a repayment plan?

 

 

Can they force the amount or will they have to settle for what we can just about afford? say £50-60 a month.

Just want to be forearmed before I make the call.

 

many thanks in advance.

mutts

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Don't call them.

 

Wait for them to write you, work out what you can realistically afford to pay back each week/month, and then you can set up a repayment plan with them.


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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They have written and want full payment in a couple of weeks, alternatively to phone them to make a payment plan.

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Hold on just a second..

 

You need to find out if this number is correct. Tax Credits are notorious for making mistakes. Send them a free SAR request, you will be able to check all of their figures.

 

At the same time start an appeal by filling in TC846 available on gov.uk. On there you need to ask them for details of how these over payments occurred. Once they have written back to you with an explanation and all the hundreds of pages of data they have on you, sometimes there are mistakes big enough to fly a plane through.

 

For example, I found that they had exaggerated my salary by £6000 and made up a phone call I never made declaring that Salary amount..

 

It's also worth looking through the Tax Credits COP 26, (Google it) to see if any exemptions apply to you.

 

Worst comes to worst, then you can start worrying about repayment plans, which won't be anywhere near the ridiculous amounts they are asking for. £50 a month was a figure mentioned for my £12,000 over payment , that I managed to get overturned anyway.

 

Also another way of paying it off painlessly is making another claim if you are entitled. They will then take the overpayments from the amount they pay you every month, so you will still be ahead !


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the other way they make erros is by lumping qualifying payment periods together so for example if you income for the first 6 months of the year was zero and for the second 6 months was a millio they lump it together and decide you got half a million for each bit so you have to repay the money overpaid when you really werent overpaid. It seems as though they have done this to you and I would say that you owe a third less than they claim you do. there is also an allowance fro changes in income that doesnt affect the payment. Again, your overtime may well mean that for some months you dont cross this threshold and they ahve decided the averager is good enough for them

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@ London1971 thank you, that is certainly something to be checking although I suspect getting all the SAR documents will take us over the payment deadline waking up the non friendly dca.

 

@ ericsbrother thank you, how they've calculated it is taking both years income as a total for each year that puts it over the threshold for claiming each year so want it back.

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If your income was lower for say the first 6 months thenj you are entitled to the tax credit. The calculations you provided were honestly done so valid for the period up until your income changed significantly. The payemnt isnt retrospective

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That's interesting, certainly not how their letter reads which just looks at the yearly total and not how it accrues. Will SAR and appeal although almost out of time.

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Ignore any powerless DCA, just deal with HMRC !


We could do with some help from you.

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ericsbrother you are incorrect to say "If your income was lower for say the first 6 months then you are entitled to the tax credit".

Tax credits is worked out on the income from a whole tax year.

 

Award notices clearly state if your income goes over X amount to tell them.

Claimants are expected to keep an eye on their expected income for the tax year and advise the change as soon as possible.

If you do not then at the end of the tax year there is an overpayment.

 

"start an appeal by filling in TC846 available on gov.uk. On there you need to ask them for details" - An appeal is when you feel a decision is incorrect.

A TC846 is to dispute an overpayment and you need to state exactly why.

You cannot ask for an overpayment explanation on that form.

 

OP my advice is to check the final tax credit award to make sure all of the information is indeed correct.

Compare it against the previous one to see why there is a difference in entitlement.

 

You can even do a manual calculation to ensure the figures on the final award notice is correct if you really don't trust them.

If you can see that you were indeed overpaid by that amount, make the repayment plan.

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Gamer Nic is correct. Here is the letter I sent alongside my TC846 asking them for an explanation.

 

Dear Sir/ Madam

 

Please note this is a joint claim, see both NI numbers above and the payment reference.

I dispute responsibility for these Tax Credit Overpayments, please provide a complete explanation and breakdown of how these overpayments occurred.

This is relating to all overpaid awards in my / partners name,

 

Please note,

All further contact should be in writing only, a Subject Access request has also been sent

Yours Faithfully,

 

You can then check the explanation they give you against what is on the SAR report.


We could do with some help from you.

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Yes this it how it has been explained, yearly total.. nothing else matters. Anyway a TC846 has already been sent but didn't include any covering letter. Just hoping they don't demand £240 a month to clear it in a year. Many thanks for the advice.

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What A DCA demands is irrelevant, they are completely powerless. They are like my car, makes a lot of noise but goes nowhere ! You do not need to be frightened of them at all!

 

When the appeal process has been exhausted, and HMRC says you still owe money. Come back to us and I can explain the next step. HMRC are obliged to do an income and expenditure assessment with you, the figure they will come up with is nowhere near the £200 per month you mentioned.

 

Calling the DCA to make an arrangement is like peeing into the wind, it's pointless and will cost you a lot of money!


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Thankfully it hasn't got to the DCA stage and hopefully wont, will report back.

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Hello again, developments.. After my last post I sent the online SAR and also appealed about the decision. I have had the SAR letter back just confirming wages and National Insurance paid and all seems correct. This morning I have had a letter from LCS/ First Now asking for the amount and to only deal with them. We still have not heard any about the appeal decision. So.. do I ignore this? The letter states if I do the debt will be passed onto a DCA. I would be very grateful for some advice please. Many thanks.

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Ignore them.


We could do with some help from you.

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Ok thanks, I just don't want to make the situation worse, I guess the appeal will/has failed which is why hmrc has passed it on.

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Nope,

 

It means nothing of the sort. HMRC will let you know either way, and if it fails, HMRC are the people you talk to in order to make an affordable arrangement.


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Tax Credit COP 26 (their code of practice) page 15.

 

 

If you can’t pay for your essential living expenses such as your

rent, gas or electricity and:

• you’re paying back an overpayment directly

• we’ve asked you to pay back an overpayment

phone the Payment Helpline on 0345 302 1429. We’ll ask you

about your circumstances in more detail.

 

Those are the people you should be dealing with, if your appeal fails and you need to pay back, not some low life DCA.


We could do with some help from you.

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Thanks, I might have to give hmrc a ring to see what's going on.

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Just with a view to following up what is happening with your appeal. In my experience it was delayed for weeks. Do not discuss repayments with them!


We could do with some help from you.

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Understood :-)

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Just a post to update the thread in case anybody is in a similar situation. The appeal failed and the we are required to pay the £2800 back. The debt has been passed to Pastdue who want the payment in full. HMRC no longer wants to deal with it so probably best to put on a credit card.

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Just a post to update the thread in case anybody is in a similar situation. The appeal failed and the we are required to pay the £2800 back. The debt has been passed to Pastdue who want the payment in full. HMRC no longer wants to deal with it so probably best to put on a credit card.

 

Ignore Pastdue. Make an arrangement with Tax Credits / HMRC, for a monthly arrangement. I was told around £50 per month when I thought I would have to pay them back.

 

Past Due are a powerless DCA who need to be ignored. Please do not go and get yourself in Credit Card Debt

 

Please see the link below to COP 26, Tax Credits own code of practice. Page 11 is of particular interest to you. You can mention this if they refuse to help you. You may need to send them an income and expenditure sheet.

 

https://revenuebenefits.org.uk/pdf/COP26.pdf


We could do with some help from you.

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 Have we helped you ...?         Please Donate button to the Consumer Action Group

 

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Thank you for the advice London1971, unfortunately the link doesn't work. I have found other archived COP 26 pdf's but the other page 11's don't seem relevant to this, could you tell me what I'm looking for please. many thanks.

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