Jump to content


  • Tweets

  • Posts

    • I posted a reply earlier which I have now deleted because I realise that I hadn't read your story correctly. You have laid out £1000 on repairs to a vehicle which according to you is probably in need of further repairs. Although you have been rebuffed by the dealer at your first asking, your position would be much better had you provided the quotes for the repair work to the dealer in advance so that he had forward knowledge and was able to present his own opinions before you went ahead and spent the money. This kind of transparency is essential when you are in conflict with somebody who may later on dispute the value of the work which was carried out. Fortunately you have had more than one opinion from independent garages and this will be very helpful to you. So in order to recover your money, you have prepared a letter but which is rather open-ended because it simply says that you would like to have a reply within 14 days or else you may go and see a solicitor. Given that you have been rebuffed quite peremptorily by the seller of the vehicle, I don't think that this is going to make very much impression. You need to take control of this and assert yourself. I notice that you say that you are too exhausted to look around for a replacement vehicle. Do you have the stamina to conduct a small claim against this dealer? It's very easy but it will require some tenacity and there won't be a quick solution. I can expect to go on for six months or so before you get a result unless the dealer decides to put their hands up. I would avoid going to a solicitor if I were you because first of all you incur expenses which you will not get back from the dealer. Also the solicitor will start off by sending letters which will simply delay things further and of course will incur further costs for you. You haven't told us the name of the dealer – even though you have been asked by another member of the site team. He also haven't told us anything about the car – the make, model, year, mileage and price. I think we will have to modify your letter based on whether you think that you would be prepared to take your own small claim action. If you do take a small claim action then your financial outlay will be fairly minimal and everything you do outlay will be recoverable – assuming that you win. On the basis of what you say, I would guess that your chances of success are much better than 90%. However, there is the issue that the dealer may try to challenge the value of the work you have had carried out because you didn't give him any advance notice. We will have to deal with this.  
    • So Guys, After sending the last letter as everyone else  here I got a reply from Moriartylaw with a statement that ADCB instructed them to act on their behalf and a copy of all my credit card bank statements. Not sure what to do now. They want me to respond and supply them with a list of asset and liabilities.    please the attachment of the letter. moriartylaw.jpeg.pdf
    • Okay, let me start again. In terms of planning, is it not enough to say they don't have it since it's not shown on the council site? If not, if I ring Stockport planning would they put in writing that there's no planning?   I could contact the land registry to find out who the land owner is. If I contact them directly maybe they'll tell me if they have a contract in place. If they ignore my request too then should I be doing other things to find this out?
    • I'm trying to work through this step-by-step as I read the story again. There was a dispute over a will in respect of your grandfather's house but the dispute was eventually abandoned and it seems that the house was apportioned to your mother and her brother who presumably were the only two children. The will was unsigned and so we could say that the house passed to the two of them under the rules of intestacy. You then decided to buy the house for £50,000 and presumably the money you paid was divided between your mother and your uncle – who were the owners of the house. This was in 1999. We talking about 20 years ago here and so in respect of most legal questions I would have thought that some limitation period applied. (However the issue of the trust has been raised – and this wouldn't be affected by limitation) However, presumably the house was bought at a proper value given the market at the time and any work that it needed doing. Presumably the house was properly conveyed. Although a lot of things have passed – including home improvements, tenancies et cetera, from the story you have told us, neither your parents nor your uncle have been involved in this at all. Now you have received a letter from your parents saying that the house is really theirs and that you have simply been holding it on trust for them and they now want it back. Is this a reasonable summary of what has happened?   Although you have written a fair bit about bills, tenancies, and that you have lived in your parents home for some of this 30 years, I'm not sure what relevance that has to the problem. I have to say that your explanation is very unclear. A bit rambling in fact. If you think that part of the story is relevant then maybe you'd like to express it all a little more clearly and say in what way you think it is relevant to the problem. You are much more familiar with the story then I am but I don't see that those factors are terribly important on the brief understanding that I have. if if any money is owed to your parents because of you having lived with them et cetera then it seems to me that that is a separate matter and has nothing to do with your ownership of the property. You say that you have received a letter from solicitors claiming first of all that there is a constructive trust or that you might be subject to a proprietary estoppel. In terms of the estoppel, that doctrine is only available in very particular circumstances and could not be used to attack you in any event. Estoppel, whether it is proprietary or promissory can only be used as a defence. So the question of estoppel in this situation is completely irrelevant, in my view, although I don't see any basis for one in any event. So what remains is the possibility of a constructive trust. It seems to me to be highly unlikely that there is such a trust and I think that the first question needs to be asked is on what basis they consider that there is a constructive trust. Secondly, of course, even if there was a constructive trust, on the basis of what you have told us, it wouldn't only be your mother who was the beneficiary, it would also be your uncle. Furthermore, if you were a constructive trustee then at the very least you would be entitled to recover all of the expenses that you had laid out over 30 years – including the cost of the property plus interest – less any financial benefit that you had accrued from renting it out and so forth. I'm not sure how good this analysis is. This is well out of my experience – but I would suggest that you consider it and see whether any of it rings true. I would also start making a very detailed account of all the money which you have spent over the years on the property and also a detailed account of all the benefits you have accrued from it. I wouldn't supply this to their solicitor but if you end up having to instruct your own lawyer then I'm sure that you may be asked for this if there is any suspicion that a constructive trust may exist. Frankly it sounds like a load of rubbish to me but we will be very interested if you will keep us up to date. So there you have it. No particular answers. Just a few unsupported and unqualified opinions    
    • Hello and welcome to CAG.   I agree with dx, hiring a lawyer is unlikely to help as most of them don't understand fare matters, so you end up paying for their learning curve.   Your idea about involving your GP is a good one, it sounds as if you need their input with how you're feeling. And if they would write a supporting letter that could help too. Hopefully your medical information will be through in time.   HB
  • Our picks

today

Claim on the Crown incorrectly served

style="text-align:center;"> Please note that this topic has not had any new posts for the last 772 days.

If you are trying to post a different story then you should start your own new thread. Posting on this thread is likely to mean that you won't get the help and advice that you need.

If you are trying to post information which is relevant to the story in this thread then please flag it up to the site team and they will allow you to post.

Thank you

Recommended Posts

I made a complaint against a county court which was uphold by the Ministry of Justice.

As a consequence I issued a claim for compensation.

I sent my claim to the County Court Money Claims Centrer requesting that the claim form was sent back to me so that I serve it myself on the defendant along with my particulars of claim within four months what I did.

 

However I have received a letter from the solicitor of the defendant telling me that my service of the claim form is defective because according to CPR 6.10 I should have sent my claim form to the solicitor acting for the Government Department and not to the Ministry of Justice because it is a claim against the Crown.

 

This letter invites me to serve again my claim but this time on the defendant’s solicitor.

However I am reluctant to do this because it is now more than four months that I issued this claim and it could be struck out at a hearing because of the limitation issue and I could be ordered to pay the cost of the hearing.

I cannot also issue another claim because it will be outside the six years limitation period.

 

I would like to know what to do to save my claim.

 

I would like to know if I can write a letter or make an application to the court asking that it order the defendant to accept that the claim form was properly served on it and to order the defendant to respond to it even though I did not sent it to its representative contrary to CPR 6.10?

Maybe I can put forward the following explanations

 

a) I am a litigant in person and I did not know the CPR contrary to a professional lawyer

 

b) I was not aware that the Ministry of Justice was the Crown

 

c) The address that I used when I made my complaint was always this of the Ministry of Justice so it was difficult for me to imagine that the claim form should be sent to another address

 

d) Maybe I can say that CPR 6.10 is confusing and when it says that we have to serve the claim form on the defendant’s representative this could be interpreted also as being served on the defendant who will pass it to its representative as usually it happens.

We think that we can serve directly on the defendant’s representative or indirectly by sending it to the defendant who will pass it to its representative

 

e) I can maybe say also in this simple letter that anyway the defendant has received my claim and it should have sent it to its representative because its representative replied to me and as a consequence finally my claim has been served on its representative because he has finally received it.

 

 

I can maybe say that if I have not served myself my claim form on the defendant's representative the defendant has served it itself on its representative. And that the defendant want to take advantage of a technicality not to respond to my claim

 

f) Another issue is that the defendant has waiting more than one month after receiving my claim form before its representative informs me that the service of my claim form was defective.

 

 

I would like to know if I can advantage of this if my claim was really defective he should have tell me before or respond to my claim within 14 days of receiving it as required by the CPRs?

 

g) I would like to know also if the fact that I have not complied with CPR 6.10 because I have sent my claim form to the defendant instead of having sent it to its representative is a reason for the defendant to ignore my claim form and not to respond to it because after all its representative has finally been given my claim form by the defendant itself?

 

 

Or this gives the right to the defendant only to make an application to have my claim struck out for this reason or to ask for more costs?

 

The question is whether I have enough grounds to save my claim or it is better that I simply abandon it?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think you may be in trouble as CPR 6.10 is clear about serving proceedings against the Crown on the Government Legal Department.

 

You need to speak to the GLD and find out what their intentions are if you serve the papers again. If you're lucky they won't take issue with it.

 

I don't think it'll wash with a Judge that you're a LiP and didn't know the rules as you're supposed to check these things or take legal advice beforehand.

 

You might have some sympathy from the Court though as the Defendant hasn't really been prejudiced.

 

How much is your claim for?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Government Legal Department invites me to serve my claim form on it.

 

However according to CPR 7.5 my claim form should be served upon within four months of having been issued and if I serve my claim again I will not comply with this deadline.

 

I can ask the GLD if I serve my claim late on it if it will not make an application to have it strike out but this is very unlikely because it is well known that defendants use any possibilities that they have to strike out a claim.

 

Another possibility is that I made an application under CPR 7.6 for an order extending the period for compliance with rule 7.5. but the issue is that such application should be made within the four months deadline or we have to have a good reason for not having done so.

 

If I do such application I do not know if I can say that I was a litigant in person and I did not know that the Ministry of Justice belongs to the Crown and that the defendant has sustained any prejudice. Or I can put forward any other grounds to which I make reference in my first post

 

My claim is for less than £300 but I intend to increase its value because when I made it I did not know its value but know I have additional information which shows that my claim could be worth more than this

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's because your other reasons aren't very good. CPR 6.10 isn't ambiguous. It's very clear unfortunately.

 

How much more than £300 do you think your claim is worth?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It think that it could be worth £9000. I say this because I have found a similar case where the claimant got this amount of compensation

 

I do not know if there could be others grounds that I can use to obtain permission from the court to issue after the four months deadline or it is better I abandon this claim but this will be regrettable because it was difficult for me to imagine that I had to send my claim form to the defendant's representative and not to the defendant because usually it is like that.

Edited by today

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

£300 to £9000 is quite some difference.

 

What is your complaint and why do you think you are entitled to £9000 compensation?

 

It's important because if your claim is only worth a few hundred pounds then an application to extend service will cost you more than the claim is worth, even if you are successful.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Thee is an issue of breach of the Data Protection Act 1998. I found another case where the claimant suffered less breaches of the Data Protection Act than me and got £9000 compensation

 

According to CPR 7.6 such application can be made without notice so it could cost me less

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Not sure that 7.6 applies as you've already served the Claim Form now.

 

Can you be more specific about the DPA breaches?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The representative of the lawyer of the defendant invites me to serve it again and this time on him which is evidence that my claim has not been officially served because the first service was defective. However if I can prove for the reasons put I forward in my previous posts that it has been served for example because the defendant's representative has been finally given my claim form by the defendant itself it will be good for me

 

I cannot be more specific about the breach of the Data Protection because a question of confidentiality.Moreover this is irrelevant as far as CPR 6.10 is concerned

Edited by today

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well you seem to know all the answers already, why are you on here then?

 

And the nature of the DPA breaches are relevant. You somehow think you're claim is worth £9000 (it's probably not) and asked if you should abandon your claim as you've made a mistake in not serving it correctly within limitation. The financial value of your claim is directly related to that.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
. I found a another ('similar' you say) case where the claimant .....got £9000 compensation

 

are you thinking of that Brown v Police case...?


IMO

:-):rant:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Yes even though my case is against the Ministry of Justice but not against the Police

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Yes even though my case is against the Ministry of Justice but not against the Police

ok

how are your circs similar to attract the same level of damages. there were a number of issues, not just the dpa, there apparently;

'...The (county court) award covered both breaches under the DPA and the HRA and a claim for misuse of private information on the basis that the claims arose on the same facts....'

without you being more specific, replies can't be more specific. up to you.

that aside, seems things still firstly depend on whether your claim has been/will be properly served.


IMO

:-):rant:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In this case the female police officer was awarded £9000 only because a breach of confidentiality about where she went on holidays. It seem to me that the breach of confidentiality that I have sustained is more important than that. Even if maybe I do not deserve £9000 this case shows that it is likely that I deserve more than the very small amount I claim initially. However this is not the main issue because the main issue is what can I say in my application form to convince the court to give me permission to serve my claim form after the four months to which it is made reference in CPR 7.5

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It is the main issue.

 

If you're claim is worth £300 then it might not be financially viable to continue as the costs of the application will very likely exceed the amount claimed. If this is the case you might be best to abandon the claim.

 

However, if your claim is worth £9000 then it might be worth the costs of making an application if you're still going to get £8000 for example.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
.... However this is not the main issue because the main issue is what can I say in my application form to convince the court to give me permission to serve my claim form after the four months to which it is made reference in CPR 7.5

i edited my post re being firstly whether your claim gets in. :)


IMO

:-):rant:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I am of the opinion that my claim is also worth £9000 but anyway certainly more than £300. However my claim is worth nothing if I am not able to convince the court to give me permission to serve my claim after the four months deadline. and in order to achieve this I need to know which good arguments to put in my application form

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I would like to know if someone knows others cases similar to the Brown v Police case.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In the Notice of Issue which was sent to me by the County Court Money Claims Centre along with my claim form it is stated that I have to serve the defendant within 4 months of the date of issue. However it is not stated that I have to serve the claim form on the representative of the defendant. Hence I would like to know if I can use this as evidence to get permission from the court to serve my claim on the representative of the defendant after the four months deadline because I have followed the instructions which were stated in the Notice of Issue when I served the claim form on the defendant and not on its representative

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

it seems that your claim was, according to cpr, as you pointed out, not applicable for MCOL. mcol is not for claims against the crown (PD 7E para 5) (even when choosing to serve oneself).

you need to address that. not re the 'four months', and trying to get an extension on that. it seems your claim was wrongly proceeded/issued in the first place (PD7E para 5). (maybe what their solicitor was referring to re reservice)?

Edited by dx100uk
4 to 5..dx

IMO

:-):rant:

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
In the Notice of Issue which was sent to me by the County Court Money Claims Centre along with my claim form it is stated that I have to serve the defendant within 4 months of the date of issue. However it is not stated that I have to serve the claim form on the representative of the defendant. Hence I would like to know if I can use this as evidence to get permission from the court to serve my claim on the representative of the defendant after the four months deadline because I have followed the instructions which were stated in the Notice of Issue when I served the claim form on the defendant and not on its representative

 

No, that's not a good enough reason for failing to serve correctly in my opinion.

 

The terms Defendant and Defendant's Solicitor are interchangeable. When it says serve on the Defendant (Crown) then you must serve on their Solicitor (Government Legal Department).

 

Was your claim issued via Money Claim Online?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You say that the term defendant and defendant’s solicitor are interchangeable. However these two terms are not interchangeable in CPR 6.10. Therefore as it stands the contents of the Notice of Issue is misleading

 

I think that the writer of the Notice of Issue could have been more helpful because he makes reference to the CPR when he says that we have to serve the claim form within four months of the date of issue but he should have put forward fully the CPR by saying also that we have to serve on the defendant’s solicitor and not on the defendant because this was also an important piece of information which can make a claimant loses his claim if it is not complied with

 

My claim was not issued on-line

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The Court cannot and will not give you legal advice on this like how to correctly serve proceedings and on whom. You are supposed to know this prior to issuing/serving so I don't think this argument is a good one.

 

Please scan and post the Notice of Issue so we can check, but I suspect that it is just the standard pro forma notice.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The issue is not whether or not the court can give legal advice but if it provides information it should do this fully and correctly or provide no information at all. Otherwise people will believe the information given even if it is not correct. Instead of stating in the Notice of Issue that I have to serve my claim form within four months of the date of issue on the defendant it should have stated me that I have to serve it on the defendant's representative or tell me nothing and I would have done search about how to serve it. I have simply trusted what was stated in the Notice of Issue and it avers that this information was wrong

 

I cannot send you a copy of the Notice of Issue because it contains confidential information but I think that it is a standard one which I think need to be amended to avoid claimants being misled

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Good luck with that, the standard Notice of Issue is used thousands of times a year and so you'll have to convince the Court they are wrong and misleading.

 

You can easily redact any personal information before posting the Notice of Issue.

  • Haha 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...