Jump to content


truly-madly V Natwest


style="text-align: center;">  

Thread Locked

because no one has posted on it for the last 5203 days.

If you need to add something to this thread then

 

Please click the "Report " link

 

at the bottom of one of the posts.

 

If you want to post a new story then

Please

Start your own new thread

That way you will attract more attention to your story and get more visitors and more help 

 

Thanks

Recommended Posts

Hello everyone!

 

I asked this question in another thread but was advised to start a case thread, so here it is:

 

I've read everything I can in this forum about NatWest and Cobbetts but there is still something I need to know...

 

I received the CPR part 18 request today. I can't send the stock response (that I've already set-out the reasons why the charges are unlawful) because I must admit I wasn't thorough enough in my online claim.

 

I used the stock letter originally and also quoted it in my online claim, specifically the phrase 'unlawful at Common Law Statute and recent Consumer regulations.' They are asking me to explain the particular statute, the sections of the regs/statute, and the principals of common law. I know about the test case, but which does this cover, the statutes or the regs? Where can I find the law bit?

 

I'm confused and would really appreciate some guidance on this!

 

Thanks in advance to anyone who can help.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Well I foolishly was very vague when I claimed on the moneyclaim website. For some reason I thought my correspondence with Natwest up to that point would be taken into consideration. So I didn't include a schedule of charges, or account details! Really I think Cobbetts could have had the claim struck off but they sent me a CPR 18 and asked for more info. I'm hoping that my lack of info intitially won't come back to haunt me and when I send it back with all the relevant info.

 

It's just the 'unlawful at Common Law Statute and recent Consumer regulations' bit that I have to explain. I think I just found something in another thread though...

 

Claimant has had a contract with the Defendant, which is conducted according to its standard terms and conditions, since 1986. Claimant is claiming the return of money taken by the defendant in the way of charges over the last six years, plus the interest it has levied on these charges. The Defendant's charges are a disproportionate penalty and therefore unenforceable as they are contrary to common law. Further, as a disproportionate penalty they are invalid under the Unfair (Contracts) Terms Act 1977 s.4 and under the Unfair Terms in Consumer Contract Regulations 1999. Para.8 and sch.2(1)(e). In the event that the charges are not a penalty then they are unreasonable within the meaning of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982 s.15. Claimant has repeatedly asked the Defendant to justify its charges but it has declined to do so. The Claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from June 2000 to June 2006 of £1,166.17 and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.022%.

 

Will that cover it do you think?

 

Also, a question about interest: So far I haven't claimed for (or worked out) any interest that is also due. How do I do this? Since each charge was from a separate date, do I have to work out the interest for each charge?

 

Thanks!

Link to post
Share on other sites

You've rather missed the boat, since in order to claim it, this must be in your POC's

 

The Claimant claims interest under section 69 of the County Courts Act 1984 at the rate of 8% a year from XXX to XXXX of £XXXX and also interest at the same rate up to the date of judgment or earlier payment at a daily rate of 0.022%.

 

The only way you can do this is to amend your claim (£35 fee, unreclaimable)

Link to post
Share on other sites

When it is transferred to your local court, they will send you Natwest's defence and an Allocation Questionnaire

 

In order to claim the s69 8% interest you need to amend a claim by submitting form N244 + 3 N1 + 3 schedules + £35 fee . If you do this you can use the opportunity to submit a full Particulars of Claim

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, I've calculated my interest and will include it in my NEW particulars of claim. Is there a formal procedure for changing my POCs? I can't see anything in the allocation questionnaire.

 

Also, since my original claim there have been other charges on my account. Can I add these when I change my particulars?

 

Thanks!

Link to post
Share on other sites

You cannot just submit a completely different POC's and schedule with your AQ.

 

In order to claim the s69 8% interest you need to amend a claim by submitting form N244 + 3 N1 + 3 schedules + £35 fee . If you do this you can use the opportunity to submit a full Particulars of Claim

 

If you don't do this your original POC's will stand and your case may get struck out

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, I've posted below my original POCs. No schedule, etc!!

 

I was thinking of using the N244 form and saying because of a technical fault with my browser that it missed off all the other info. So my change to POCs will just be to add more info. Do you think that will be ok?

 

Thanks

 

 

I am claiming a refund of the charges which

the NatWest Bank have levied on my account

over the last 6 years. The regime of fees

which have been applying to my account in

relation to direct debit refusals, exceeding

overdraft limits and so forth are unlawful at

Common Law, Statute and recent consumer

regulations.

Link to post
Share on other sites

With regard to the N244 -

 

Top left hand box:

 

1. Tick c), without a hearing

 

Leave the rest blank

 

Part A

intend to apply for an order that:

amends my particulars of claim

 

because:

my particulars of claim did not state the statutory provisions on which my claim relies, and I have become aware of further charges levied and therefore there is an increase in the value of my claim

 

Part B

Tick evidence in part c

 

Part C

 

Please find attached to this application my proposed new particulars of claim, amended to include the statutory provisions on which my claim relies , as well as an amended schedule of the amount claimed in respect of penalty charges levied by the defendant"

 

 

Send N244 + 3 N1 + 3 schedules + £35 fee to the court. They will send 2 back, 1 of which you serve/send to the defendants and confirm to the court you have done so.

 

 

N1 PARTICULARS OF CLAIM

 

 

1. The Claimant [has] [had] an account (XXXX Account No) with the Defendant which was opened on or around Date [and closed on or around date]

 

2. During the period in which the Account [has been] [was] operating the Defendant debited numerous charges to the Account in respect of purported breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant and also charged interest on the charges once applied. The Claimant understands that the Defendant contends that the charges were debited in accordance with the terms of the contract between itself and the Claimant.

 

3. A list of the charges applied is attached to these particulars of claim.

 

4. The Claimant contends that:

 

a) The charges debited to the Account are punitive in nature; are not a genuine pre-estimate of cost incurred by the Defendant; exceed any alleged actual loss to the Defendant in respect of any breaches of contract on the part of the Claimant; and are not intended to represent or related to any alleged actual loss, but instead unduly enrich the Defendant which exercises the contractual term in respect of such charges with a view to profit.

 

b) The contractual provision that permits the Defendant to levy such charges is unenforceable by virtue of the Unfair Contract Terms in Consumer Contracts Regulations (1999), the Unfair Contract Terms Act 1977 and the common law.

 

 

5. Alternatively, if the charges are a fee for a service, then they must be reasonable under S.15 of the Supply of Goods and Services Act 1982.

 

6. Accordingly the Claimant claims:

 

a) the return of the amounts debited in respect of charges in the sum of £XXXX and any interest charged thereon;

 

 

b) Court costs;

 

c) Interest pursuant to section 69 County Courts Act as set out on the attached list of charges or at such rate and for such periods as the court deems just.

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • 1 month later...

And so the machinations run slow... FINALLY seen some action from the court, but it's a hearing to amend the particulars of claim (says it will take about 10 mins). Is it normal to have a hearing just for this? I did change them quite a lot from what I submitted originally to the moneyclaim site.

 

Will Cobbetts' solicitors be there?? They wrote and asked me to send them the amended particulars of claim. Am I obliged to do this?

 

Thanks in advance!

Link to post
Share on other sites
FINALLY seen some action from the court, but it's a hearing to amend the particulars of claim (says it will take about 10 mins). Is it normal to have a hearing just for this?

What did the order from the court actually say

Will Cobbetts' solicitors be there?? They wrote and asked me to send them the amended particulars of claim. Am I obliged to do this?

 

Proably not, but there's no reason why you shouldn't.

Link to post
Share on other sites

From memory it just says General Notice –*Hearing for Application to Amend Particulars of Claim. Or words to that affect. I spoke to someone at the court who said I may have ticked the wrong box on the AQ. I'm sure I didn't though –*someone else at the court said the judge may have requested the hearing. I had to postpone the date of the hearing and I asked again for there not to be a hearing (as from speaking to others it wasn't normal practice) but they came back with a revised date so I presume it definitely needs the hearing. The fact they've said it should just take 10 mins suggests it's just a formality, although how often does this happen? I'm just hoping it's not going to leave Cobbetts with a way to get out of it.

 

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

OK, exact wording from what the court sent me:

 

 

Notice of Hearing of Application

 

The hearing of the claimant’s application for Permission To Amend Claim will take place at...

 

 

Just a formality? I'm wondering whether because I changed my POCs I also took the opportunity to add extra charges (incurred in the interim) that may be a problem??

 

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm wondering whether because I changed my POCs I also took the opportunity to add extra charges (incurred in the interim) that may be a problem??

 

No you applied to amend your claim and a different figure is just part of that. On the N244 did you you tick © in question 1 (Without a hearing)?

If not, that may be the reason.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm sure I ticked ©, then I also asked when I changed my hearing date could it be done without one. The people I've spoken to on the phone at the court said it was up to the judge whether or not to have a hearing to amend the particulars. I've sent Cobbetts my amended POC –*hope they don't find anything that causes trouble. They may not even turn up. Do you think it's possible they'll kick-up a fuss? Suppose I'll just wait and see, hearing next Friday!

 

Thanks

Link to post
Share on other sites
  • Recently Browsing   0 Caggers

    No registered users viewing this page.


  • Have we helped you ...?


×
×
  • Create New...