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    • If you are buying a used car – you need to read this survival guide.
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    • Hello,

      On 15/1/24 booked appointment with Big Motoring World (BMW) to view a mini on 17/1/24 at 8pm at their Enfield dealership.  

      Car was dirty and test drive was two circuits of roundabout on entry to the showroom.  Was p/x my car and rushed by sales exec and a manager into buying the mini and a 3yr warranty that night, sale all wrapped up by 10pm.  They strongly advised me taking warranty out on car that age (2017) and confirmed it was honoured at over 500 UK registered garages.

      The next day, 18/1/24 noticed amber engine warning light on dashboard , immediately phoned BMW aftercare team to ask for it to be investigated asap at nearest garage to me. After 15 mins on hold was told only their 5 service centres across the UK can deal with car issues with earliest date for inspection in March ! Said I’m not happy with that given what sales team advised or driving car. Told an amber warning light only advisory so to drive with caution and call back when light goes red.

      I’m not happy to do this, drive the car or with the after care experience (a sign of further stresses to come) so want a refund and to return the car asap.

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      Many thanks 
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    • Housing Association property flooding. https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/topic/438641-housing-association-property-flooding/&do=findComment&comment=5124299
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    • We have finally managed to obtain the transcript of this case.

      The judge's reasoning is very useful and will certainly be helpful in any other cases relating to third-party rights where the customer has contracted with the courier company by using a broker.
      This is generally speaking the problem with using PackLink who are domiciled in Spain and very conveniently out of reach of the British justice system.

      Frankly I don't think that is any accident.

      One of the points that the judge made was that the customers contract with the broker specifically refers to the courier – and it is clear that the courier knows that they are acting for a third party. There is no need to name the third party. They just have to be recognisably part of a class of person – such as a sender or a recipient of the parcel.

      Please note that a recent case against UPS failed on exactly the same issue with the judge held that the Contracts (Rights of Third Parties) Act 1999 did not apply.

      We will be getting that transcript very soon. We will look at it and we will understand how the judge made such catastrophic mistakes. It was a very poor judgement.
      We will be recommending that people do include this adverse judgement in their bundle so that when they go to county court the judge will see both sides and see the arguments against this adverse judgement.
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      This is good ethical practice.

      It would be very nice if the parcel delivery companies – including EVRi – practised this kind of thing as well.

       

      OT APPROVED, 365MC637, FAROOQ, EVRi, 12.07.23 (BRENT) - J v4.pdf
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Britannia Parking ANPR PCN - Costas Lydiards Field Swindon


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1 Date of the infringement - 06 Sept 17

 

2 Date on the NTK [this must have been received within 14 days from the 'offence' date] 25th Sept 17

 

3 Date received 28th Sept 17

 

4 Does the NTK mention schedule 4 of The Protections of Freedoms Act 2012? [y/n?] No

 

5 Is there any photographic evidence of the event? Yes (picture of my car but can't see timestamps)

 

6 Have you appealed? {y/n?] post up you appeal] No

Have you had a response? [Y/N?] post it up N/A

 

7 Who is the parking company? Britannia Parking

 

8. Where exactly [carpark name and town] Swindon - Lydiards FieldHi,

 

I have today received a parking charge notice (details above).

 

1) I did not see any signage - however, I found another thread where someone has posted the signs

 

https://www.consumeractiongroup.co.uk/forum/showthread.php?476866-Britannia-parking-ANPR-PCN-Lydiard-Fields-Swindon&p=5065611#post5065611

 

I'm from out of the area and was looking for somewhere to grab a coffee and do a bit of work - saw a Costa so parked there.

 

2) according to the sign in the other thread its a 1 hour limit and I was there for 2hrs 19 mins

- which is possible as I was in Costa and had my laptop and did a bit of work.

 

3) I notice the notice was 25th Sept and the offence on the 6th Sept

- so 19 days (outside of the 14 days).

Does this mean its unenforceable?

 

I'm really just after some advice

- yes I didn't notice the sign at the entrance and am a bit stupid I was navigating somewhere new and checking where I was going.

I didn't see a sign where I parked.

 

It's £60 if I pay in the next 14 days and £100 otherwise.

 

Thanks in advance.

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yep out of time

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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wouldn't think so

 

let Eric advise though before you do anything further...

 

poss DVLA complaint or gather stuff to hit them with or their minions ...

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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no, you dont appeal,

you let them waste time and money sending you more stupid letters

and then tell them they havent followed the protocols when it looks like they might be tempted to try their luck because you havent responded.

 

 

As it stands you are in a position where you can sue them for breach of the DPA so let them carry on for the moment.

 

 

How far this all goes depends on you attitude to this,

showing them you are up for a fight later will usually be enough to make them skulk away

but respond too soon they will think they have you worried, whatever you say.

  • Confused 1
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I've been looking but is there a sticky which explains this 14 day rule

- are you saying that because of that they have breached the Data Protection Act (by getting my details outside of 14 days)?

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read the POFA,

it has all of the required steps for a parking co to issue a ticket/NTK.

If they dont slap a ticket on the car they must have some sort of photographic evidence of the event.

 

This has to be sent with the NTK within 14 days after the date of the event or no keeper liability can be created.

If they ask for the keeper details after 12 days then they cannot be compliant with the POFA so they have no lawful reason to obtain them and by doing so they have broken the agreement they signed to get access to the DVLA database.

 

It is the not telling the truth on this access that causes the breach of the DPA as they are then unlawfully processing the data.

 

Late NTK?

no keeper liability and breach of DPA so cant claim from keeper

(even if they suspect the driver is the same person, they have to prove it)

and you can sue them for the unlawful processing of data causing you distress etc.

 

 

There are precedents for this so not a difficult thing to do.

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  • 1 month later...

ignore a DCA is NOT A BAILIFF.

 

you never ever RING anyone!!

nor email.

 

as post 5

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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Obviously I want this to go away and now I'm getting letters from a Debt Recovery Agency it's got me a bit worried. I've found a template for a letter on another site would this be good to send to Britannia Parking or do I need to write to the DRA as well?

 

I am writing to you to lodge a formal appeal against a parking charge notice sent to myself as registered keeper of the vehicle in question. I was NOT the driver.

 

I contend that I am not liable for this parking charge on the basis of the below points:

 

 

This Notice to Keeper (NTK) is not compliant with the Protection of Freedoms Act 2012 (POFA) due to the dates and the wording used.

 

Under schedule 4, paragraph 4 of the POFA, an operator can only establish the right to recover any unpaid parking charges from the keeper of a vehicle if certain conditions are met, as stated in paragraphs 5, 6, 11 & 12. ParkingEye have failed to fulfil the conditions which state that the keeper must be served with a compliant NTK in accordance with paragraph 9, which stipulates a mandatory timeline and wording:-

 

’’The notice must be given by— (a) handing it to the keeper, or leaving it at a current address for service for the keeper, within the relevant period; or

(b) sending it by post to a current address for service for the keeper so that it is delivered to that address within the relevant period.’’

The applicable section here is (b) because the NTK was delivered by post. Furthermore, paragraph 9(5) states: ’’The relevant period…is the period of 14 days beginning with the day after that on which the specified period of parking ended’’

 

The NTK sent to myself as Registered Keeper was issued on 25/09/2017, when the actual date of event is recorded as , a difference of 18 DAYS. Even if they had posted it on the same day that they describe as the ‘Date Issued’, it would be impossible for the notice to have been actually delivered and deemed ‘served’ or given, within the 'relevant period' as required under paragraph 9(4)(b).

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as post 9 what part of ignore do you not understand

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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as post 9 what part of ignore do you not understand

 

As you'll notice the word ignore in your post is highlighted and when you look at it - it says....

 

If you are considering ignoring a letter from a private parking company demanding money for some alleged parking incident - you should understand that this is not the best course of action

 

Perhaps you can understand how a newbie might be confused by the advice given?

 

Going back to post #5 from Erics Brother

 

How far this all goes depends on you attitude to this,

showing them you are up for a fight later will usually be enough to make them skulk away

but respond too soon they will think they have you worried, whatever you say.

 

It's slightly ambiguous as to when is a good time to put up a fight - I've now received a letter from Debt Recovery Plus which says if I don't pay by the 15th - they will recommend court action is taken by the client.

 

Ok I realise that may be scare tactics but as a newbie I'm just trying to ascertain when is a good time and at what point do I respond. Will Britannia contact me after the 15th again or will they try baliffs/court or whatever.

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they cant do anything to you ignore the DCA!!

they cannot send bailiffs its not even been in court!

 

the parking company must send a letter before claim and abide by the PAP rules.

 

not being funny

but unless you have done so off line

you've not read any other threads here at all

 

CAG is self help too.

 

dx

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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But there is a huge difference between Britannia Parking and Debt Recovery Plus.

 

Britannia Parking claim you owe them money and might take you to court, although you are a hell of a long way from that at the moment, and their case would be pretty useless given their NTK is out of time.

 

Debt Recovery Plus are just a bunch of oaves who send scary letters, they have no power to do anything, they are paper tigers. Even if the debt exists, it's not theirs. That's why the advice is to ignore them.

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you say you are a newbie,

does that mean you havent read up on any other threads about either the wiles of the parking co's or about the letters dca's send out.

 

The nickname threatogram should tell you enough

 

but if not remember this NO dca OWNS THE DEBT,

THEY HAVE NO POWERS OR RIGHTS TO DEMAND ANYTHING OR TO TAKE ANY ACTION OTHER THAN WRITING LETTERS.

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you say you area newebie, does that mean you havent read up on any toehr threads about either the wiles of the parking co's or about the lette4rs dca's send out. The nickname threatogram should tell you enough but if not remember this NO dca OWNS THE DEBT, THEY HAVE NO POWERS OR RIGHTS TO DEMAND ANYTHING OR TO TAKE ANY ACTION OTHER THAN WRITING LETTERS.

 

Yep I now appreciate the DRP letter is just a threat but I've searched, read various threads and trying to work out when I write to Britannia and ask them to cease and desist as they have not abided by the POFA. I also read on another thread/forum that the 28 days they say I have to appeal, although now passed, is not cast in stone.

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it means NOTHING

 

you never ever reply to a DCA on anything even consumer debt

they are totally powerless and ARE NOT BAILIFFS

 

the only thing you do nOT ignore

is a claimform from northants Bulk

 

or a Letter before claim

issued by a SOLICITOR

please don't hit Quote...just type we know what we said earlier..

DCA's view debtors as suckers, marks and mugs

NO DCA has ANY legal powers whatsoever on ANY debt no matter what it's Type

and they

are NOT and can NEVER  be BAILIFFS. even if a debt has been to court..

If everyone stopped blindly paying DCA's Tomorrow, their industry would collapse overnight... 

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in reality you are not going to write to Britannia to tell them to cease and desist because they claim you owe money so they can keep writing to you. law says so.

 

Again, you are not appealing so any timescale irrelevant.

 

The wording of the POFA is a but vague on a couple of points and this is one of them.

 

In short, you hope thay give up and go away but if they do decide to take legal action they have to follow procedures and then you tell them what is what and point out that being vexatious or unreasonable can mean you get costs of £1500 or so awarded for their trouble.

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