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Esa tribunal appeal and how to take maximus hcp to court

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Some help and guidance required if possible, bit of a story behind it all so I'll keep it as brief any more info needed and I'll follow it up.

 

Nearly two years ago I had a Brain Haemorrhage , A large bleed and had Coiling done, Salford Royal Hospital are amazing and saved my life. I had worked in the building trade for 30 years and after the Haemorrr than othershage I was left with the symptoms of a stroke. Down one side , speech mental issues, memory etc. I decided to go down the route of Naturally treating the conditions I was left with and am doing a lot better than hoped.

 

Unable to go back to work I had to claim ESA , I had my first WCA in Wigan and was passed on points and placed in the support group by DWP . After 12 months I had to have a second WCA again at Wigan and ended up having a bit of a row with the Manager. I then had the Assessment and had a strange feeling something was wrong but in the back of my mind I felt comfortable because I had insisted on the Assessment being recorded "what a blessing".

 

Before I carry on , if anyone knows ANYBODY going for a Work Capability Assessment PLEASE PLEASE , tell them to insist on having the Assessment recorded, if for any reason they say no or make excuses please complain . What I say as follows explains.

 

The HCP did her job and carried out the Assessment , a little bit faster than I expected but due to the brain not working as it should I didn't pick up on it . The decision was made by the Decision Maker and I received only 6 points and was told I was fit to work and taken out of support group . Mandatory Reconsideration was done and was pointless having complained about the HCP lying in the Medical report form, and when I say lying you cannot imagine how blatant it was done, absolutely unbelievable.

 

The recordings were transcribed and there in black and white a word for word comparison of what was said , when compared with the Medical Report it was a perfect reverse , every and I mean every word turned upside down. The Medical report described a fit active person . I could go into more detail and will if asked but.

 

Put my evidence in to Tribunal Court although a little late due to DWP not sending me a copy of the bundle to defend against what they were relying on. As I expected it was adjourned . The first thing said to me in the Court was , "not word for word" but , we have concerns that you are recording this Hearing , 3 times I was asked if I was secretly recording and I told them NO. Alarm bells went of in my head, somebody is advising the Court regarding my attitude to having everything recorded , either Maximus or DWP . They were actually really worried and concerned . I asked the Court why no recordings were being made and that I was aware "to my belief" that Court proceedings were normally recorded. I'm sure they said it's because it's not a Court of law. 90% sure that's what they said. I asked if the Court would be requesting the HCP attend , they said NO.

 

How on earth could the Tribunal ignore the importance of what was stated at the assessment by the HCP who then forwarded her Medical Report to the DWP , the outcome was sealed 100% impossible to gain 15 points or more. So it implies to me the HCP will get away with it or at least that's what they think and that is why i'm here.so .

 

1, Is it possible to start Legal Proceedings against the HCP for fraud

2, Is it possible to have both Tribunal case and Civil case running at the same time

3, Can you insist on the Court allowing recordings being made

4, Would you direct proceedings towards Maximus or the HCP, I would love to name and shame her but understand that I cant at this moment in time

 

This has to be addressed, how many more has this been done to . I would say, that it was done so blatantly done that she must be super confident of getting away with everyone can make a mistake but she may have just kicked me in the balls and stuck the boot in. I don't think that the Tribunal Court have Legal powers, but if this could be gotten in front of a Real Court , then some smelly stuff is going to hit the fan .

Can somebody please point me in the right direction of how to initiate this against the HCP . I am confident I can beat the Tribunal , if that goes against me I will Appeal to the 2nd tier

 

Thanks in advance

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1, Is it possible to start Legal Proceedings against the HCP for fraud
Maybe, but you have to start with their regulatory body by making a complaint against them, they have codes of conduct

 

2, Is it possible to have both Tribunal case and Civil case running at the same time
not sure what you mean by this,

3, Can you insist on the Court allowing recordings being made
you can request this i believe, but i doubt you can compel them to record the hearing

4, Would you direct proceedings towards Maximus or the HCP, I would love to name and shame her but understand that I cant at this moment in time
I would think go for the HCP as Maxifarce would slip away squeaky clean

 

As far as the tribunal hearing goes, they aren't interseted what lies the HCP may or may not of told in their report, their job is to hear your side, How your conditions affect your day to day life and take into account all the clinical evidence available from your GP and any specialists at the hospital from their reports and decide if you meet the criteria for the benefit or not

  • Haha 1

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Hi , thanks for reply

 

1, Understand the point about complaints procedure , I’ve started a letter of complaint outlining the issues but will believe it would be ok to tell them about transcripts of recordings . If they ask me for a copy they can do one . They have a copy of recordings and from what I’m led to believe they have to keep a copy for 12 months?? at least. A con firm like them have money behind them so can take some out of there profits and pay for transcripts themselves, not at my expense.

 

2 . Tribunal and Civil case running at same time I mean is:

I get the impression the Tribunal Court have no powers apart from making DWP pay me arrears to the point of what I am only entitled to and the claim being put back in the support group. That’s fine ,ok with that , no issues or expect any more than what I’m entitled to. Although , from what I’ve read on case law the dwp will appeal just for having the definition of one “word” cause the claimants appeal to be re-heard . The WCA Handbook is a pile of smelly stuff really. So I am expecting it to drag on and cause me a lot of hardship for a period of time on top of what I’ve already gone through so I wont be compensated for cause of hardship through them.

 

Civil HCP being taken to Court separately ie , running parallel to Tribunal Appeal is that it has a more vindictive and justice point behind it . To put politely I despise everything she stands for and how she did it , I would love to post the transcripts of the Assessment so you could compare to what she stated to the DWP in the Medical Report . “sat here for five minutes thinking of how to describe how blatant it is” it has to be seen , gurkin unbelievable.

The only one I can think of is the Fraud Act which covers “ I think” , but hopefully more Acts can be linked with it . If I can get her , then brilliant . If I can be compensated through the Courts even better, But surely that would put all her other assessments carried out into question and ultimately if it’s able to be publicised then great , it could hopefully helps lots of others who have gone through what I believe she has “caused”. I cannot say who she is but I will . Tribunal Appeal Court is not a Court of Law so she “the HCP” gets away with it. No that’s not right .

 

3, Could you explain how I could request this be recorded, how to who to??, I can’t find anything in the Tribunal Court stuff.. If they do fine , if not there’s not much I can do but at least I’ve tried. I don’t trust anybody.

 

 

4, Obviously I will follow the complaints procedure, but at some stage I have to issue with her name and address so to be served. I have her name and not sure if Maximus would be obliged to give it ,but don’t you think she would be represented anyway by Maximus as she was representing them it would be in there interest. I just don’t Know how to get her address. Another scenario, a bit more direct, If and only If, I could find out her address and be 100% that’s her , surely I would be able to have her served from the Court without her knowing it was on the way .Or is that not how it works.

 

 

In your last paragraph you have sort of said what the Tribunal Judge said . But I cannot work out how . In order to overturn the Decision Makers decision, The Tribunal decide on what medical information was given and available to the Decision Maker and how she interperates

That information to come to a decision and awards points accordingly.

 

 

 

The information given to the Decision Maker was provided by the HCP from the WCA . So I “know” that the information given to the Decision Maker was incorrect and inaccurate. There was no way the Decision Maker was going to award points because the information she was given by the HCP and was, in her eyes , true and accurate .

 

I actually agree with that decision, based on what information was given to her by the HCP she would believe to be true. “they could be working together but can’t prove that”

 

Then I made a Mandatory Reconsideration Request and was turned down again. But this decision was made “after” The Decision Maker was made “aware” of my accusation that the HCP had lied and could prove it because I had transcripts and recordings of the WCA. She failed to investigate and dismissed the information I gave her . This is the Decision which caused me to Appeal.

 

This is where I got confused with the Tribunal Judge , she decided to get more Medical Records but still implied they would still refer to the Medical Report provided by the HCP which was given to The Decision Maker, and the Decision Makers report and Score sheets to see if the had made the wrong decision.

 

So , the Tribunal Court have the Transcripts. But implied they were irrelevant and that it was not a Court of Law and would decide on Medical evidence and the Decision Makers report .

 

The Tribunal Court Has been given and made aware of my accusations exactly the same way I did with the Decision Maker . If they do not compare the transcripts with the HCP report and say they are not part of the Courts decision That means that a HCP can put whatever she wants in a report, a decision maker can refuse to investigate and a Judge and doctor can igore my evidence with no consequences apart from appeal to higher court. In reading some decisions in full regarding ESA appeals one Judge in the Higher Court states that He listened to the recording of an Assessment and was glad he had been able to listen to it . So I cannot understand how

 

Should I request the court not to refer to them and object ask for another adjournment for clarification, the DWP would not accept that and object . If it goes to the higher courts they would not be impressed and the judge at the Tribunal may sit in a Court of Law as well knowing the value of them . Strange situation , shows a good example how all this to do with the DWP is a joke

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You MUST get your local MP on board too, send them a letter stating what you have above, or better still attend one of their surgeries, and go in there with the evidence, demand that they do everything they can to stop this persecution of the sick and disabled.

 

Exhaust the complaints procedure with maxifarce, then escalate it to the ICE, and then escalate it to the parliamentary health ombudsman (I think it is?).

 

Get onto your local press and expose the DWP for the failure they are.


Who ever heard of someone getting a job at the Jobcentre? The unemployed are sent there as penance for their sins, not to help them find work!

 

 

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Hi Bazooka,

 

Thanks for your reply .

Every point you made I will follow ,

it will take a while to write in detail to all of them .

Noggin takes time to work.

 

 

I intend to cause as much damage as I am able to do to HCP , DWP and Maximus but the HCP is my main target ,

what she has done is having serious consequences on me personally.

 

 

I’m still not out of the woods after having the Brain Haemorrhage as it’s causing concern and needs further Surgery ,

as you can imagine blood pressure is through the roof ,

I think I have found her on the hcpc website and got her registration number ,

it’s an unusual name and there is only one on there that matches and it’s in Manchester,

but will give them enough information to establish if it’s the correct Physiotherapist and will get a complaint in today.

This should give her warning of what’s coming in advance .

 

 

If it’s dealt with properly hopefully she will be penalised, or temporary suspension of her Licence .

She has to explain to them rather than her tracks be covered by the other two.

It won’t be updated daily but as soon as I have more to post I will update and hope you could all follow and help.

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Hi , thanks for reply

 

1, Understand the point about complaints procedure , I’ve started a letter of complaint outlining the issues but will believe it would be ok to tell them about transcripts of recordings . If they ask me for a copy they can do one . They have a copy of recordings and from what I’m led to believe they have to keep a copy for 12 months?? at least. A con firm like them have money behind them so can take some out of there profits and pay for transcripts themselves, not at my expense.

 

2 . Tribunal and Civil case running at same time I mean is:

I get the impression the Tribunal Court have no powers apart from making DWP pay me arrears to the point of what I am only entitled to and the claim being put back in the support group. That’s fine ,ok with that , no issues or expect any more than what I’m entitled to. Although , from what I’ve read on case law the dwp will appeal just for having the definition of one “word” cause the claimants appeal to be re-heard . The WCA Handbook is a pile of smelly stuff really. So I am expecting it to drag on and cause me a lot of hardship for a period of time on top of what I’ve already gone through so I wont be compensated for cause of hardship through them.

 

Civil HCP being taken to Court separately ie , running parallel to Tribunal Appeal is that it has a more vindictive and justice point behind it . To put politely I despise everything she stands for and how she did it , I would love to post the transcripts of the Assessment so you could compare to what she stated to the DWP in the Medical Report . “sat here for five minutes thinking of how to describe how blatant it is” it has to be seen , gurkin unbelievable.

The only one I can think of is the Fraud Act which covers “ I think” , but hopefully more Acts can be linked with it . If I can get her , then brilliant . If I can be compensated through the Courts even better, But surely that would put all her other assessments carried out into question and ultimately if it’s able to be publicised then great , it could hopefully helps lots of others who have gone through what I believe she has “caused”. I cannot say who she is but I will . Tribunal Appeal Court is not a Court of Law so she “the HCP” gets away with it. No that’s not right .

 

3, Could you explain how I could request this be recorded, how to who to??, I can’t find anything in the Tribunal Court stuff.. If they do fine , if not there’s not much I can do but at least I’ve tried. I don’t trust anybody.

 

 

4, Obviously I will follow the complaints procedure, but at some stage I have to issue with her name and address so to be served. I have her name and not sure if Maximus would be obliged to give it ,but don’t you think she would be represented anyway by Maximus as she was representing them it would be in there interest. I just don’t Know how to get her address. Another scenario, a bit more direct, If and only If, I could find out her address and be 100% that’s her , surely I would be able to have her served from the Court without her knowing it was on the way .Or is that not how it works.

 

 

In your last paragraph you have sort of said what the Tribunal Judge said . But I cannot work out how . In order to overturn the Decision Makers decision, The Tribunal decide on what medical information was given and available to the Decision Maker and how she interperates

That information to come to a decision and awards points accordingly.

 

 

 

The information given to the Decision Maker was provided by the HCP from the WCA . So I “know” that the information given to the Decision Maker was incorrect and inaccurate. There was no way the Decision Maker was going to award points because the information she was given by the HCP and was, in her eyes , true and accurate .

 

I actually agree with that decision, based on what information was given to her by the HCP she would believe to be true. “they could be working together but can’t prove that”

 

Then I made a Mandatory Reconsideration Request and was turned down again. But this decision was made “after” The Decision Maker was made “aware” of my accusation that the HCP had lied and could prove it because I had transcripts and recordings of the WCA. She failed to investigate and dismissed the information I gave her . This is the Decision which caused me to Appeal.

 

This is where I got confused with the Tribunal Judge , she decided to get more Medical Records but still implied they would still refer to the Medical Report provided by the HCP which was given to The Decision Maker, and the Decision Makers report and Score sheets to see if the had made the wrong decision.

 

So , the Tribunal Court have the Transcripts. But implied they were irrelevant and that it was not a Court of Law and would decide on Medical evidence and the Decision Makers report .

 

The Tribunal Court Has been given and made aware of my accusations exactly the same way I did with the Decision Maker . If they do not compare the transcripts with the HCP report and say they are not part of the Courts decision That means that a HCP can put whatever she wants in a report, a decision maker can refuse to investigate and a Judge and doctor can igore my evidence with no consequences apart from appeal to higher court. In reading some decisions in full regarding ESA appeals one Judge in the Higher Court states that He listened to the recording of an Assessment and was glad he had been able to listen to it . So I cannot understand how

 

Should I request the court not to refer to them and object ask for another adjournment for clarification, the DWP would not accept that and object . If it goes to the higher courts they would not be impressed and the judge at the Tribunal may sit in a Court of Law as well knowing the value of them . Strange situation , shows a good example how all this to do with the DWP is a joke

 

 

 

1, Who have you complained to about the HCP, Maxifarce or the HCP's registered representative body such as https://www.nmc.org.uk/ for nurses and http://www.gmc-uk.org/about/index.asp if they was a GP/ doctor ? IMO complaints to maxifarce waste of time and effort

 

2,Yes there would be no connection , but first you would need to raise it with the hcp professional body GMC /NMC ect

 

3, Ring the tribunal venue and see, they are under no legal obligation to facilitate this though, so if they don't have the equipment ect then the answer will likely be a no

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4, maxifarce won't give out her address

 

 

They tribunals job is to look at all the written evidence, and your oral evidence plus any submittion made by CAB or Wefare rights case worke give weight to what it feels to be correct and apply the law thats it

Where as the DWP decision maker is unlikely to have any great medical knowlage and the process is a rubber stamping box ticking job ,which is why there are so many appeals

 

The UTT judge listening to the audio, was more likely to be the audio from the WCA , because it had been audio recorded and not a recording from the ftt

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Hi to all,

 

Just to update , I’ve sent a letter of complaint short and simple. Made them aware of the problem , ie: Medical Report Form given to DWP compared to recordings of WCA assessment and to confirm it was accurate. I agree a waste of time and expect a refusal to answer or a bull#### excuse . But at least it will, which ever way they respond will draw them into the “collusion club” as they are Gold Members.

 

Sent a “very” detailed complaint to the Health & Care Professions Council . I have also gotten her Registration number of their site and have also had it confirmed it is the correct Physiotherapist in question in a 2nd letter I sent to Maxifarce as you say. Also I have an Address to go with it , so the games begin with her. Can anybody elaborate on charges against her and dwp , misconduct, lying , falsifying , FRAUD etc etc Where to point the finger, how to initiate , through which Court. A sequence to follow.

 

Tribunal is just part of the issue relating to me and am confident. Just because the Appeal may go in my favour doesn’t mean pursuing her and DWP stops . No way is that happening , I have to be careful in doing this because I need further surgery and know this is having a knock on effect with my health. Scary, I’m already getting similar symptoms that led up to my Haemorrhage . Nearly 6 months this has been going on with DWP. I don’t want to be used as a statistic and another consequence of what’s happened to others when fighting the DWP . Hard to prove if your not here. A worthless excuse and apology of empty words means nothing. DWP BAS##### I’m fuming.

 

Letter in great detail nearly ready for my MP as promised hopefully finish that by tomorrow.

 

Letter has been sent for clarification for something, can’t say much about this but it’s good.

 

I have a appointment with a Welfare Rights person so hopefully take some pressure off.

 

Another question I believe important for me is: Does anyone know the extent of the Tribunal Judge powers relating to a abuse of process, trying to deliberately screw the Court over, Very relevant this question and can elaborate later once enquiries come back.

 

Many thanks

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Hi to all,

 

Just to update , I’ve sent a letter of complaint short and simple. Made them aware of the problem , ie: Medical Report Form given to DWP compared to recordings of WCA assessment and to confirm it was accurate. I agree a waste of time and expect a refusal to answer or a bull#### excuse . But at least it will, which ever way they respond will draw them into the “collusion club” as they are Gold Members.

 

Sent a “very” detailed complaint to the Health & Care Professions Council . I have also gotten her Registration number of their site and have also had it confirmed it is the correct Physiotherapist in question in a 2nd letter I sent to Maxifarce as you say. Also I have an Address to go with it , so the games begin with her. Can anybody elaborate on charges against her and dwp , misconduct, lying , falsifying , FRAUD etc etc Where to point the finger, how to initiate , through which Court. A sequence to follow.

 

Tribunal is just part of the issue relating to me and am confident. Just because the Appeal may go in my favour doesn’t mean pursuing her and DWP stops . No way is that happening , I have to be careful in doing this because I need further surgery and know this is having a knock on effect with my health. Scary, I’m already getting similar symptoms that led up to my Haemorrhage . Nearly 6 months this has been going on with DWP. I don’t want to be used as a statistic and another consequence of what’s happened to others when fighting the DWP . Hard to prove if your not here. A worthless excuse and apology of empty words means nothing. DWP BAS##### I’m fuming.

 

Letter in great detail nearly ready for my MP as promised hopefully finish that by tomorrow.

 

Letter has been sent for clarification for something, can’t say much about this but it’s good.

 

I have a appointment with a Welfare Rights person so hopefully take some pressure off.

 

Another question I believe important for me is: Does anyone know the extent of the Tribunal Judge powers relating to a abuse of process, trying to deliberately screw the Court over, Very relevant this question and can elaborate later once enquiries come back.

 

Many thanks

Maxi farce to point, surprise me, but if i get cynical i suppose they would willingly divulge details of a HCP who works for them, easier to blame the HCP than protect them,

Does anyone know the extent of the Tribunal Judge powers relating to a abuse of process, trying to deliberately screw the Court over
If it wasn't concerning the hearing its self probably not a lot,

 

Can anybody elaborate on charges against her and dwp , misconduct, lying , falsifying , FRAUD etc etc Where to point the finger, how to initiate , through which Court. A sequence to follow
The registered body will have a code of conduct ,that all their HCP's agree to observe ,( like the old hipocratic oath ) this still applies to them when they are carrying out WCA's ect

So if it can be proven they have failed to do this, and it's serious enough they can be struck off (prevented from praticing medicne)

As for anything else you will likely need deep pockets

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Hi tommy

 

1, Just to clarify. Maximus only confirmed the Registration number I quoted to them, that was all I asked them to confirm, no point in asking for her address. I just found that out myself.

 

2, The hcpc , that’s the best that I can hope will happen to the hcp. I’ve took a look at the other side of the hcpc who then have a tribunal panel against her where I can be called as a witness against her. But when you read the procedures it implies that if it’s a one off she may just get a slap on the wrist. But when it’s agreed how blatant it was done and with confidence of getting away with it . I would have to try and be reassured that her other assessments would be re-examined, not sure how to push for that .

 

3. I think the best thing for know would be , Tribunal 1st hopefully win, have to get back on my feet. Complaint followed through with DWP and see what end result is because they are peeing in the same pot because they refused and dismissed my allegation against her. There must be an angle to have them for that. .The HCPC, if action would be taken against her , maybe that would then support direct action against her . She can’t get away.

 

4, Your last line got me laughing, at the moment I’m being held by my ankles , pockets turned out with holes in and washers on the floor. But looking over the horizon it will come back . My amazing kids and 2 of the best mates you could ask for, have worked out a plan to keep me in work , although at snail pace on my terms. We’ve been working on this for 15 months. A liability working for an employer, no way I could get help through jobcentrepuss. Never been out of work apart from one time for a short period after the Bankers screwed up in 2008. No intention of sitting on my arse.

 

I’ll keep you updated . Thanks

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Hi tommy

 

1, Just to clarify. Maximus only confirmed the Registration number I quoted to them, that was all I asked them to confirm, no point in asking for her address. I just found that out myself.

 

2, The hcpc , that’s the best that I can hope will happen to the hcp. I’ve took a look at the other side of the hcpc who then have a tribunal panel against her where I can be called as a witness against her. But when you read the procedures it implies that if it’s a one off she may just get a slap on the wrist. But when it’s agreed how blatant it was done and with confidence of getting away with it . I would have to try and be reassured that her other assessments would be re-examined, not sure how to push for that .

 

3. I think the best thing for know would be , Tribunal 1st hopefully win, have to get back on my feet. Complaint followed through with DWP and see what end result is because they are peeing in the same pot because they refused and dismissed my allegation against her. There must be an angle to have them for that. .The HCPC, if action would be taken against her , maybe that would then support direct action against her . She can’t get away.

 

4, Your last line got me laughing, at the moment I’m being held by my ankles , pockets turned out with holes in and washers on the floor. But looking over the horizon it will come back . My amazing kids and 2 of the best mates you could ask for, have worked out a plan to keep me in work , although at snail pace on my terms. We’ve been working on this for 15 months. A liability working for an employer, no way I could get help through jobcentrepuss. Never been out of work apart from one time for a short period after the Bankers screwed up in 2008. No intention of sitting on my arse.

 

I’ll keep you updated . Thanks

 

Chin up Oddball, i'm sure everything will work out for you mate.

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Thanks spitfire, I'm tired and my chins up . They try and grind you down. I can't work out whats going wrong with this Country . Well i actually think i can, my kids say i should be Prime Minister, so funny. Them in Parliament i call "speechers" full of empty words that mean nothing . Look at Hillary Ben , amazing speech they all applauded and stood up. What's it changed what's he going to do, nothing. There all liars apart from the odd one . Going on a different direction now , sorry . Thanks for that. Best be quiet

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