UKCPM/gladstone claimform - Windscreen PCN - visitor permit own space *** Case Dismissed ***

[petersalan6]

Thanks

Gonna make the most of things with the judge.

If we do win. I intend to take it further with other authorities.

I would appreciate some advice on compensation.

Was thinking £50 for letters etc. wages for the day for myself and my daughter. Is that about standard

[dx100uk]

No good for you

[petersalan6]

Thanks

Appreciate the sites and your assistance dx100uk and will make a donation

[DragonFly1967]

I would appreciate some advice on compensation.

Was thinking £50 for letters etc. wages for the day for myself and my daughter. Is that about standard

 

You can ask, but it's really up to the Judge on the day. The more that you can show that Gladrags have gone full on "Jackanory" the less impressed the Judge will be and the more likely it'll be that you'll be awarded something. Take a schedule of legitimate costs.

 

You can claim for (provable) loss of earnings for the defendant. It's unlikely that you'd get loss of wages for anyone else unless it's absolutely necessary that they're there.

Then you have 5 hours at £19 per hour for your research as a Litigant in Person (LiP Rate).

You could give it a go for any costs of copying, printing and postage, but only at cost.

You can claim for parking, I love the irony of that one

And finally, you might also mention the breach of the Data Protection Act 1998 (as this would be under the old legislation) by UKPCM obtaining and processing your details without reasonable cause. Have a look on the Parking Pranksters blog for case numbers and other details. VCS V Phillip was one, Google V Vidal-Hall is other. Worth a shot.

 

There may be a few other bits that you can claim for, but not that I can think of at the moment.

[petersalan6]

Thanks. Need to win first but have put time aside on Sunday to list costs.

[ericsbrother]

To get a full cost recovery order

you have to show that the claimant has behaved unreasonably

 

so yes, prepare a list of your costs and include your research and writing time @£19per hour (max 5 hours), travel and subsistence at cost plus expenses for copying etc.

 

YOu will also need to ask for this in writing under CPR 27.14.2 (g) and say why they have behaved unreasonably. this

 

If you told them before they started legal action that you had the right to be there and ignore their stupidity then that will be enough, esp if you quote other court cases of which there are plenty to choose from

 

. All this will go with your witness statement if it gets that far.

Edited July 14, 2018 by dx100uk
Spacing

[petersalan6]

It has gone past 'that far' Erics bro.

Court in Thursday which Gladys have said they are not attending.

I'll writ the letter showing costs and take it with me Thursday.

 

They were told from day 1 that my daughter had permission and their photos also show her permit in the windscreen which they have tried to hide.

 

Thanks for all your help during the prolonged process. I will let you know the outcome and contribute to this site then.

[ericsbrother]

then you also need to take a copy of the regulations on the rights of audience as the chances are it wont be a local solicitor that turns up on their behalf but a paralegal. n

 

You challenge their right to say anything before anyone else has a chance to utter a word.

 

the judge wont question their rights beforehand,

it is for you to do so.

No "chats" before the hearing other than to ask the person their SRA roll number.

 

 

You can find a link to the documents on the Parking Prankster's blogspot, along with loads of other cases where the parking co has lost on the supremacy of contract issue.

 

Take copies of these decisions ( the precis you find on the pranksters blog will do as longas the case ref is included) these cases will be "persuasive" rather than precedents but will clear things up as to what has happened elsewhere and judges like that.

 

As it is just supporting her already submitted defence it doesnt need to be sent in advance but take a spare copy for judge and the opposition if they are indeed allowed an audience.

 

Also challenge their witness statement and ask that daughter be allowed to cross examine the person who wrote it as there are serious errors or omissions ( whatever you can find) that may very well get the written statement chucked out as inadmissible if the judge is so minded.

 

You will know this if they go with you and dont let the parking co's mouthpiece speak as they arent a solicitor nor employed by the company. You need to make sure the judge accepts you as your daughters lay representative, all part of the same rules for rights of audience.

 

If you arent allowed to speak for her and judge allows a non solicitor to represent their claim then your daughter needs to ask for an adjournment so this can be appealed and then the hearing restarted when it has been cleared up.

 

Chances are that wont happen but the judge should at least read up on the law and then say why they arent following it.

 

All of this is probably not going to happen like this but better to be prepared in the first place so if it does you are ready.

 

Good luck

[petersalan6]

They have advised they won't have anyone attending

[ericsbrother]

so you turn up with all of the stuff indicated and prepare for them trying to win by ambushing you.

 

You also then have a good reason to ask for costs for their unreasonable behaviour as they have failed to notify you and the court in good time they are discontinuing their claim.

 

whatever you do dont just take their word for it, parking co's have been know to impersonate the defendant and phone the court to say that they arent coming just to delay or postpone a hearing they arent prepared for

[petersalan6]

My daughter has a letter saying they will not be represented at the hearing and will leave the judge to make decision in their absence.

It's a letter from Glady's

[DragonFly1967]

Indeed, but what ericsbrother means is don't be too surprised if t̶h̶e̶y̶'̶v̶e̶ ̶l̶i̶e̶d̶ ̶t̶h̶r̶o̶u̶g̶h̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶i̶r̶ ̶t̶e̶e̶t̶h they change their minds and turn up on the day. It's unlikely, but anything is possible with these chancers

[petersalan6]

I won't take anything for granted but imagine the judge wouldn't be impressed anyway.

[petersalan6]

Doing all that was suggested above thanks.

 

Just for clarity, the letter from Gladstones states;

 

'In accordance with CPR 27.9 our claimant gives notice that it will not be attending the hearing on 19th July 2018.

Please note our Client is unable to attend the above mentioned hearing conducted in their absence pursuant to CPR 27.9.

We confirm the court has been informed and that we have asked the court to decide the claim in our clients absence based on the evidence given'

 

Any thoughts?

We will attend with all the suggestions in hand but it does seem that no attendance on their behalf will be attending.

[ericsbrother]

mergeignore any correspondece from Gladstone, they are liars.

 

You turn up and demand that their witness statement is thrown out as you cannot cross examine the author etc. they are trying to get this hearing "on the papers" by the back door.

 

 

If that happened they would be asking for £50 for their solicitors attendace costs as part of that claim when no-one was ever going to turn up. This is somehting you also need to point out, all of their costs above the supposedly contractual sum claimed are a work of fiction and should be challenged.

 

Also, when you report things please report them verbatim, not an interpretation of what is said. This statement has a different meaning to your earlier postings which indicate that they are discontinuing and they certainly arent doing that.

Edited July 16, 2018 by dx100uk
merge

[petersalan6]

Hi all

Just to advise, we won the case as it was dismissed and we got costs.

Will advise the details once we receive the written confirmation from court.

 

I have advise our management company where i live that they need to remove their services immediately as they have no legal contract currently.

[lookinforinfo]

That is great news and a big relief for you I guess. Did anyone turn up from the other side?

[petersalan6]

No.

We were in the room for about five minutes.

The judge dismissed the case stating they did not have the right to issue the ticket as we had proved my daughter had full permission to park there.

 

She allowed costs for my daughters loss of earnings (or part of) cost of parking for the hearing and a fee per mile for travel.

 

She wouldn't entertain the £17.50 per hour for investigation or any other costs.

 

There is no real encouragement for them not to continue issuing tickets randomly as the process is so elongated most people would probably pay rather than go through the process.

 

It's a poor situation.

Edited July 20, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[lookinforinfo]

It is a disgraceful situation and should be stamped on hard.

[DragonFly1967]

Well done

 

I'll update the thread title.

[DragonFly1967]

Personally... With your permission of course, I'd be parking a different car in your space (with no permit displayed) every day for a month, just to mess with them What they gonna do?

[lookinforinfo]

Dragonfly you know what they are going to do. They will issue a ticket every single time. They are programmed that way.

[DragonFly1967]

Absolutely! But imagine how much money they'd be wasting on chasing them

[ericsbrother]

daughter can sue them for breach of the DPA as when they applied for her keeper details they had no authority to do so so broke their contract with the DVLA and she can claim damages as per VCS v Phillip, Liverpool CC. This sets a quantum for damages without having to show a loss or how their actions affected the person. It all stems from Vidal Hall v Google.

 

Now, if the management co are supposed to keep a white list of people who can park there or issue the permits then they are equally to blame so suing them may make them consider what bargains they want to strike with dishonest companies in the future. Should she want to go down this road we will happily help.

 

As for DF's suggestion ,

I would consider letting your friends and relatives park there and collect all of the tickets and then as soon as each person gets a NTK (not windscreen ticket) each hits the parking co with a court claim on the same day for damages for breach of the DPA

getting 10 court cases to deal with in a day may just get them running for the hills as they either have to give in or pay for 10 lawyers to attend different courts.

Edited July 20, 2018 by dx100uk
spacing

[brassnecked]

Now that is a good plan EB. Deffo sue managing Agents as well for sure, especially if they brought the fleecers in unilaterally with no consultation with Residents.